Sioux History

[dmksioux]

I have a question. We all know how nice of a hockey venue the Engelstad Arena is. People from all around the region, country, and world have come and continue to visit the arena and walk away impressed. The arena has many features, one of my favorite is the pictures that basically depict the history of Sioux hockey.

My question is this: Has there ever been discussion about incorporating Native American History (specifically Sioux) into the arena? Whether it be special Sioux history type of room, or interspersed amongst the hockey memorabilia, or even museum built next to the arena. I believe there is a great opportunity for something positive to come from this nickname debate. Now that the debate has taken on a national platform, is it possible for something positive like this to occur.

Any other ideas, suggestions about this?

[dagies]

I have a question. We all know how nice of a hockey venue the Engelstad Arena is. People from all around the region, country, and world have come and continue to visit the arena and walk away impressed. The arena has many features, one of my favorite is the pictures that basically depict the history of Sioux hockey.

My question is this: Has there ever been discussion about incorporating Native American History (specifically Sioux) into the arena? Whether it be special Sioux history type of room, or interspersed amongst the hockey memorabilia, or even museum built next to the arena. I believe there is a great opportunity for something positive to come from this nickname debate. Now that the debate has taken on a national platform, is it possible for something positive like this to occur.

Any other ideas, suggestions about this?

I like it.

[Sioux-cia]

What a great idea!! I would like to see a room or adjacent building set up as a museum for Sioux Indian history. It would not stand out if it were interspersed with Sioux hockey memorabilia. Having a designated area would be more special. If it could be part of the arena, fans could visit it before games, between periods, or during the tours of the building.

It could also be used as a classroom for public education. The Ralph could hire a curator that knows Sioux history and could conduct the tours, give classes to children and or adults, and could care for the artifacts. It would be awesome if a Sioux Indian with these qualifications could be the curator.

[dagies]

It would not stand out if it were interspersed with Sioux hockey memorabilia.

I disagree. Think of a big picture of Sitting Bull or another great Sioux warrior up there like the big picture of Goren. There's a lot of things that could be done.

Now, that may or may not be the best idea. No one wants to compare Sioux hockey players to great Sioux warriors of history, so some may take that the wrong way. But in the context of sports, our hockey players should and do try and emulate the values that made these warriors great.

I personally think it would be very cool to have this as much a shrine to the plains warrior UND is trying to emulate as it is to Sioux hockey itself. And if done right, this could be as much a positive and respectful tip of the cap to the Warriors of the Great Plains as anything.

Certainly this will be seen as "buying off" the tribes, but who cares? If UND could take a step forward in a mutually beneficial way I think it's worth it. There's a trophy area for Sioux hockey, maybe there's room for the exhibits that you suggest as well, Sioux-cia.

[Sioux-cia]

Certainly this will be seen as "buying off" the tribes, but who cares? If UND could take a step forward in a mutually beneficial way I think it's worth it. There's a trophy area for Sioux hockey, maybe there's room for the exhibits that you suggest as well, Sioux-cia.

When I read dmksioux's suggestion, I wasn't thinking of the name and logo issue. I also could give a rat's arse how doing something like this would appear to the name change crowd or anyone else for that matter. There are very good reasons that UND chose to name it's athletes 'Fighting Sioux' and we should share those reasons with fans/visitors.

[siouxforeverbaby]

Certainly this will be seen as "buying off" the tribes, but who cares?

But don't we know that that worked in the case of FSU! Though I do think that some people would take it wrong if it was mixed in with all the Sioux hockey pictures, so a separate room or area would be better. Though, can the university do that since they don't own the Ralph or the land that it is on?

[Sioux-cia]

... can the university do that since they don't own the Ralph or the land that it is on?

The Ralph could do it. Doesn't matter who does it, it would be a monument to the Sioux people. It will educate those who don't know why the University chose the Fighting Sioux name for their athletes.

[redwing77]

I wonder if they could set it up, would they make some sort of a provision to either have a free will donation box or charge a slight fee to peruse (if it is in a seperate room. All the funds raised in these methods going to scholarships for Native American students from the Sioux nation?

[dmksioux]

It's nice to see some think this is a good idea. I was actually going to send an email to the "powers that be" on both sides of the issue. Does anyone know if this has ever been brought up before? If this would ever happen I would guess that UND would work with Tribal elders to see how the Sioux history would be best integrated.

[GeauxSioux]

I think a museum is a great idea. I would visit it when in GF. The classes that I had in Indian Studies at UND were very informative.

[dmksioux]

Certainly this will be seen as "buying off" the tribes, but who cares? If UND could take a step forward in a mutually beneficial way I think it's worth it. There's a trophy area for Sioux hockey, maybe there's room for the exhibits that you suggest as well, Sioux-cia.

I guess I would view it as "Something good coming from the continued use of the Sioux name" as the Spirit Lake resolution states.

[dagies]

I guess I would view it as "Something good coming from the continued use of the Sioux name" as the Spirit Lake resolution states.

I would agree with you. Others that have posted here would probably look for the negative in a good situation.

[puck]

I seem to recall, but cannot find it in any UND press release, that when the new American Indian Center was dedicated, that it was described as a temporary step and that there was a much larger plan to build a Native American Center/museum in the works.

[dmksioux]

I seem to recall, but cannot find it in any UND press release, that when the new American Indian Center was dedicated, that it was described as a temporary step and that there was a much larger plan to build a Native American Center/museum in the works.

I remember something about a larger center but did not know that it may possibly house a museum...anyone else with info on that?

[Sioux-cia]

I only remember GrahamKracker's complaints about the cost of the center. The University allocated $500,000 for the building of the Center and challenged AISS to raise money to match. AISS raised over $300,000 for furnishing, etc. Apparently, that was not enough according to GK. I haven't seen anything about a museum for American Indians on campus discussed anywhere.

I still think this would be a great idea.

[puck]

There is a reference to a larger Native American Cultural Center/Museum in the UND Strategic Plan II, Building on Excellence (2005). Priority Action Area C: Complete the new American Indian Cultural

Center, and seek funding for an expanded center/museum.

[sioux7>5]

There is a reference to a larger Native American Cultural Center/Museum in the UND Strategic Plan II, Building on Excellence (2005). Priority Action Area C: Complete the new American Indian Cultural

Center, and seek funding for an expanded center/museum.

When my wife and I took the tour of The Ralph we were told that there was going to be a Native American museum acroos the street. I checked with her before making this post, because if I was wrong she would be the first person to enjoy correcting me.

[Sioux-cia]

When my wife and I took the tour of The Ralph we were told that there was going to be a Native American museum acroos the street. I checked with her before making this post, because if I was wrong she would be the first person to enjoy correcting me.

I like your wife!

[sioux7>5]

I like your wife!

You can have her let me give you her work #

[Sioux-cia]

You can have her let me give you her work #

I've always wanted a wife. The 1950's kind>>clean house, hot meals, laundry, ironing, total kid and pet care, grocery (and all) shopping, gardener, chauffeur, etc.

(No sex though, I don't swing that way. )

[sioux7>5]

I've always wanted a wife. The 1950's kind>>clean house, hot meals, laundry, ironing, total kid and pet care, grocery (and all) shopping, gardener, chauffeur, etc.

(No sex though, I don't swing that way. )

No sex...What the hell I am married what is that.....

[frnkdrcmn]

I have a question. We all know how nice of a hockey venue the Engelstad Arena is. People from all around the region, country, and world have come and continue to visit the arena and walk away impressed. The arena has many features, one of my favorite is the pictures that basically depict the history of Sioux hockey.

My question is this: Has there ever been discussion about incorporating Native American History (specifically Sioux) into the arena? Whether it be special Sioux history type of room, or interspersed amongst the hockey memorabilia, or even museum built next to the arena. I believe there is a great opportunity for something positive to come from this nickname debate. Now that the debate has taken on a national platform, is it possible for something positive like this to occur.

Any other ideas, suggestions about this?

It would be a joke. The history center would have to be a PC sham portraying the Sioux as a nation of CPAs.

They were a warrior, hunting/raiding society with a nasty habit of raping and mutilating their vicitims. Sorry about the inconvenient truth. The soliers of Little Big Horn were turned into jewelry.

The report of commander of Fort Phil Kearny, Henry Carrington, at the time of the Fetterman massacre by the Sioux describes what he found regarding the slaughter of a large number of men, women and children in his report (I'm not defending whites, I'm just saying that the Sioux were not a peaceful people, not before the Europeans, not after, the idea that they weren't "Fighting Sioux" is ridiculous):

Will this kind of thing be in the education center?

[Siouxmama]

frnkdrcmn,

You just typed a quote from something. What was the source? It's a very strong message.

[Sioux-cia]

And of course, the Europeans were good Christians,

http://www.indio.net/aymaco/slaughter.htm

It all began with the Europeans taking native women and children both as servants and to satisfy their own base appetites; then, not content with what the local people offered them of their own free will (and all offered as much as they could spare), they started taking for themselves the food the natives contrived to produce by the sweat of their brows, which was in all honesty little enough...the people began to realize that these men could not, in truth, be descended from heaven.

They forced their way into native settlements, slaughtering everyone they found there, including small children, old men, pregnant women, and even women who had just given birth. They hacked them to pieces, slicing open their bellies with their swords as though they were so many sheep herded into a pen. They even laid wagers on whether they could manage to slice a man in two at a stroke, or cut an individual's head from his body, or disembowel him with a single blow of their axes. They grabbed suckling infants by the feet and, ripping them from their mothers' breasts, dashed them headlong against the rocks. Others, laughing and joking all the while, threw them over their shoulders into a river, shouting: 'Wriggle, you little perisher.' They spared no one, erecting especially wide gibbets on which they could string their victims up with their feet just off the ground and then burn them alive thirteen at a time, in honor of our Savior and the twelve Apostles, or tie dry straw to their bodies and set fire to it. Some they chose to keep alive and simply cut their wrists, leaving their hands dangling, saying to them: 'Take this letter' -- meaning that their sorry condition would as a warning to those hiding in the hills. The way they normally dealt with the native leaders and nobles was to tie them to a kind of griddle consisting of sticks resting on pitchforks driven into the ground and then grill them over a slow fire, with the result that they howled in agony and despair as they died a lingering death.

Who were the savages?

[Sioux-cia]

The pendulum swings both ways.

More specific to the "America's"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_massacres

...determined that 9,156 people died from atrocities perpetrated by Native Americans, and 7,193 people died from atrocities perpetrated by whites. Osborn defines an atrocity as the murder, torture, or mutilation of civilians, the wounded and prisoners. Different definitions would obviously produce different totals. For example, Osborn does not count Indian deaths on the Trail of Tears (because these were allegedly unintentional), but he does count several episodes of post-mortem mutilation, even of combatants killed in open battle. Osborn's exact total of 16,349 killed on both sides can therefore be disputed.

List of massacres

A list of the larger or more notorious events in North America known as massacres:

Year Date Name

1622 March 22 Jamestown Massacre Powhatans kill three hundred and forty-seven English settlers throughout the Virginia colony.

1637 May 26 Mystic Massacre English colonists, with Mohegan and Narragansett allies, attack a large Pequot village on the Mystic River in what is now Connecticut, killing around five hundred villagers.

1690 February 8 French and Iroquois destroy Schenectady, New York, killing sixty settlers, including ten women and at least twelve children.

1704 February 29 Deerfield Massacre A force comprised of Abenaki, Kanienkehaka, Wyandot and Pocumtuck Indians, led by a small contingent of French-Canadian militia, sack the town of Deerfield, Massachusetts, killing fifty-six civilians and taking dozens more as captives.

1757 August Following the fall of Fort William Henry, between seventy and one hundred and eighty British and colonial prisoners are killed by Indian allies of the French.

1778 July 3 Wyoming Valley Massacre Following a battle with Patriot defenders of Forty Fort, Iroquois allies of the Loyalist forces hunt and kill those who flee, then torture those who surrendered to death.

August 31 Stockbridge Massacre A battle of the American Revolutionary War that rebel propaganda portrays as a massacre.

November 11 Cherry Valley Massacre More than thirty settlers killed.

1782 March 8 Gnadenh