Big Sky Presidents Meet on May 23rd

[FargoBison]

Seriously, does anybody have anything to back any of this up? I'm pretty sure you pulled almost all of that straight from your a$$. If any combination of the Dakota schools is so great for the big sky, then why did they reject them the first two times? Oh, thats right, location. Hasn't changed has it? Then why on earth would they add only NDSU? The "scheduling nightmare" that they haven't even endured yet? Maybe give them a season to go through that first. I can see your point about NDSU being the "obvious" travel partner to No. Colorado. I mean who wouldn't want to play one bball game in greely one night, and a game in Fargo the next. Just a quick, cheap, little hop. Same for Brookings or Grand Forks. The big sky isn't going to expand this year. NDSU and SDSU will likely end up in either the midcon this summer, or else in conference limbo until the probation is up.

The Montana State President would support adding one Dakota school and so would Comish Fulerton, both have said so. The Montana schools are frustrated with the way the conference has expanded and grown away from schools like themselves and adding NDSU would appease them. I think NDSU being added alone could definately happen but with the Big Sky it is usually almost impossible to predict just what will happen.

[BisonMav]

I mean who wouldn't want to play one bball game in greely one night, and a game in Fargo the next. Just a quick, cheap, little hop.

I don't think in the past the Big Sky played basketball on consecutive nights. Mostly Thursday/Saturday, or Friday only. There would be a day of rest between Greely and Fargo.

[aff]

The Montana State President would support adding one Dakota school and so would Comish Fulerton, both have said so. The Montana schools are frustrated with the way the conference has expanded and grown away from schools like themselves and adding NDSU would appease them. I think NDSU being added alone could definately happen but with the Big Sky it is usually almost impossible to predict just what will happen.

I just can't see it happening. If Sac, NAU, Portland, etc. didn't want a combo of schools that have easy travel partner, there's no way that only NDSU will be added. I'm sure Montana State has no problem with it, it would be one of their closest games. I don't think that they were the one's holding the two DSU's out of the conference before. And when I asked if anybody had any sources on any of this, I was seeing if their had been any RECENT statements from any of these presidents about the situation. I remember Montana States president talking about this situation over a year ago, but thats quite awhile ago. Fullerton's an idiot, and just runs his mouth about whatever he thinks will get people's attention, not that his opinion matters all that much any way.

[aff]

The Montana schools are frustrated with the way the conference has expanded and grown away from schools like themselves and adding NDSU would appease them. I think NDSU being added alone could definately happen but with the Big Sky it is usually almost impossible to predict just what will happen.

How do you know that? There's no possible way, unless you are, A. A higher up in a big sky school. B. Have a press release where the schools are badmouthing each other. Just because fans of those schools say something, doesn't make it so. For all you know the Montana schools are thrilled with being in larger recruting markets. I'm sure they love sac state, so that they can recruit california. For being so fed up with schools unlike themselves, they sure added northern colorado pretty quick. And how do you know that NDSU would appease them? Do you really think that the montana president is sitting there saying, "I don't know, we could go to the WAC, or we could stay and play NDSU." Pretty tough decision there. They won't even sign a home and home agreement with you, but you think they are keeping themselves out of the WAC to play you. I think you might need to come back to earth.

[aff]

I don't think in the past the Big Sky played basketball on consecutive nights. Mostly Thursday/Saturday, or Friday only. There would be a day of rest between Greely and Fargo.

The point remains that NDSU- UNC or any _generic dakota school- UNC is one of the worst travel partner arragments ever concieved of.

[MplsBison]

Relax aff.

If NDSU only goes to the Big Sky, I'm sure SDSU will get into the Mid Con.

[aff]

Relax aff.

If NDSU only goes to the Big Sky, I'm sure SDSU will get into the Mid Con.

I'll relax when people stop talking about stuff that pops in their head as if it were a fact. How about this:

The Montana President has shown support for adding the Dakota schools, and that obviously extends to minnesota as well. Concordia St. Paul is all but in the big sky right now, they need a tenth team. By taking crookston, the big sky avoids the delema of choosing a dakota school, and takes a school that gives them the minneapolis metro area. They also get a school that won't embarrass the rest of the league by being immediately competitive, but will grow into the league. The basketball facilities are also just as good as some members of the conference. They will be travel partners with UNC, have you seen how easy the flights are from minneapolis to Denver? Thats a huge factor in who the big sky takes into their conference. Why fly to sioux falls or fargo when you can go to minneapolis?

Its soooo easy to just make crap up on these message boards. It absolutely blows my mind when some people get good enough at it that they can't even see how illogical their own conclusions are. Tell me whats wrong with these:

1. NDSU and SDSU have been rejected twice

2. Nothing has really changed.

How is NDSU or any combination of the Dakota schools going to get in? They won't.

[BisonMav]

Would Terry Wanless, former UND AD, help in getting UND into the Big Sky?

[DI IN FARGO]

I'll relax when people stop talking about stuff that pops in their head as if it were a fact. How about this:

The Montana President has shown support for adding the Dakota schools, and that obviously extends to minnesota as well. Concordia St. Paul is all but in the big sky right now, they need a tenth team. By taking crookston, the big sky avoids the delema of choosing a dakota school, and takes a school that gives them the minneapolis metro area. They also get a school that won't embarrass the rest of the league by being immediately competitive, but will grow into the league. The basketball facilities are also just as good as some members of the conference. They will be travel partners with UNC, have you seen how easy the flights are from minneapolis to Denver? Thats a huge factor in who the big sky takes into their conference. Why fly to sioux falls or fargo when you can go to minneapolis?

Its soooo easy to just make crap up on these message boards. It absolutely blows my mind when some people get good enough at it that they can't even see how illogical their own conclusions are. Tell me whats wrong with these:

1. NDSU and SDSU have been rejected twice

2. Nothing has really changed.

How is NDSU or any combination of the Dakota schools going to get in? They won't.

aff, Wow you really seem to get upset at the notion that some think there may be a possibility of NDSU only being added to the BSC without SDSU. First let me say that I am very glad that SDSU made the move with NDSU however I think the point that was being made was that the last time around when both SU's made the bid to get into the sky travel was a bit different. Delta did not fly into Fargo at that time. I know you don't want to concede that it could make a difference when discussing travel but I would think it could definetly play a factor. I'm not saying I would like to see only NDSU get into the sky without SDSU but travel issues have become a little bit easier now that Delta flies direct from Denver and Salt Lake City to Fargo whereas before they did not. In the end my first choice would be to see both NDSU and SDSU in the BSC but you need to lighten up a bit.

[DI IN FARGO]

Would Terry Wanless, former UND AD, help in getting UND into the Big Sky?

I don't see any conference taking them seriously until they declare.

[IowaBison]

aff, Wow you really seem to get upset at the notion that some think there may be a possibility of NDSU only being added to the BSC without SDSU. First let me say that I am very glad that SDSU made the move with NDSU however I think the point that was being made was that the last time around when both SU's made the bid to get into the sky travel was a bit different. Delta did not fly into Fargo at that time. I know you don't want to concede that it could make a difference when discussing travel but I would think it could definetly play a factor. I'm not saying I would like to see only NDSU get into the sky without SDSU but travel issues have become a little bit easier now that Delta flies direct from Denver and Salt Lake City to Fargo whereas before they did not. In the end my first choice would be to see both NDSU and SDSU in the BSC but you need to lighten up a bit.

What has really changed is that they added Northern Colorado and that put a wrench into things.

[The Sicatoka]

What hasn't changed?

- Geography.

- The noises about Sac. St. looking at DI-A.

What has changed?

- Northern Colorado is in the Big Sky.

- The Mid-Con lost Chicago State and is seriously looking at grabbing available teams.

I'm guessing the Big Sky was "marking time" on the SUs, knowing they were out there. Now, they may not be (due to Mid-Con). I think the Big Sky has to show its intent or lose out on the SUs (or more).

[aff]

aff, Wow you really seem to get upset at the notion that some think there may be a possibility of NDSU only being added to the BSC without SDSU. First let me say that I am very glad that SDSU made the move with NDSU however I think the point that was being made was that the last time around when both SU's made the bid to get into the sky travel was a bit different. Delta did not fly into Fargo at that time. I know you don't want to concede that it could make a difference when discussing travel but I would think it could definetly play a factor. I'm not saying I would like to see only NDSU get into the sky without SDSU but travel issues have become a little bit easier now that Delta flies direct from Denver and Salt Lake City to Fargo whereas before they did not. In the end my first choice would be to see both NDSU and SDSU in the BSC but you need to lighten up a bit.

I'm really not upset, I just don't think it makes any sense. Just think about it. The problem before was geography. NDSU and SDSU together lessened that problem. You can see evidence of that from the basketball scheduling alliance the two schools have utilized. So if geography was a problem before, why would only NDSU get added this time, increasing geography problems? It doesn't make any sense. Having UNC and NDSU or SDSU as travel partners makes the travel burden on other members even worse than before, when NDSU was rejected. But now you're telling me that Delta adding some commuter flights changes all that? Please. Just from a logical standpoint, I can't understand.

[DI IN FARGO]

I'm really not upset, I just don't think it makes any sense. Just think about it. The problem before was geography. NDSU and SDSU together lessened that problem. You can see evidence of that from the basketball scheduling alliance the two schools have utilized. So if geography was a problem before, why would only NDSU get added this time, increasing geography problems? It doesn't make any sense. Having UNC and NDSU or SDSU as travel partners makes the travel burden on other members even worse than before, when NDSU was rejected. But now you're telling me that Delta adding some commuter flights changes all that? Please. Just from a logical standpoint, I can't understand.

Bringing two schools to the BSC would give them 11 which isn't impossible to schedule for but 10 is easier to work with. Combine that with the fact that the Mid-Con looks to be very interested in both the SU's and add to that the previously mentioned flight issues (i.e. not having to travel to Minneapolis then Fargo) makes it a different landscape. Personally I don't think the BSC is going to do anything in the way of making any offer to any schools and NDSU and SDSU will land in the Mid-Con. This leaves the GWFC still intact and also leaves an option albeit not a real rosy one for UND. If that were to happen UND would liely get into the GWFC but the rest of the sports would have no home and they would toil in the landscape of the Independants just as the two SU's have had to do for the last three years.

[FargoBison]

How do you know that? There's no possible way, unless you are, A. A higher up in a big sky school. B. Have a press release where the schools are badmouthing each other. Just because fans of those schools say something, doesn't make it so. For all you know the Montana schools are thrilled with being in larger recruting markets. I'm sure they love sac state, so that they can recruit california. For being so fed up with schools unlike themselves, they sure added northern colorado pretty quick. And how do you know that NDSU would appease them? Do you really think that the montana president is sitting there saying, "I don't know, we could go to the WAC, or we could stay and play NDSU." Pretty tough decision there. They won't even sign a home and home agreement with you, but you think they are keeping themselves out of the WAC to play you. I think you might need to come back to earth.

The Montana State President said so himself and I am pretty sure that Montana feels the same. I don't think the Montana president really wants to go to the WAC so he would like to make the Big Sky as attractive as possible to his fanbase. As for the home and home Montana wants to play 7 home games and will only travel if a team agrees to a 2 for 1 and NDSU has no interest in those type of contracts. NDSU has always had alot of support and even had a majority of votes last time the issue of expansion was voted on, I think the Big Sky wants to add at least one school and bringing in NDSU makes a lot of sense. If they add NDSU now they could always add UND or SDSU later.

[The Sicatoka]

If they add NDSU now they could always add UND or SDSU later.

Playing the "if" game, if they were to expand the footprint so greatly (add NDSU) would they really be so short-sighted as to allow the chance for something else in the new, larger footprint to possibly slip away (i.e. SDSU to Mid-Con)? And would they want to expand the footprint that much for just one game (when they could have set up two new sets of travel partners in BB, someone for UNC and a new pair, instead)?

I expect to see all or nothing.

And I almost guarantee a "nothing" response from BSC will trigger the Mid-Con to make moves in June.

[rabidrabbit]

Bringing two schools to the BSC would give them 11 which isn't impossible to schedule for but 10 is easier to work with. Combine that with the fact that the Mid-Con looks to be very interested in both the SU's and add to that the previously mentioned flight issues (i.e. not having to travel to Minneapolis then Fargo) makes it a different landscape. Personally I don't think the BSC is going to do anything in the way of making any offer to any schools and NDSU and SDSU will land in the Mid-Con. This leaves the GWFC still intact and also leaves an option albeit not a real rosy one for UND. If that were to happen UND would liely get into the GWFC but the rest of the sports would have no home and they would toil in the landscape of the Independants just as the two SU's have had to do for the last three years.

UND fans - The greatest flexibility for a D-1 conference for move up NCC members is the mid-con/GWFC combo. Why?

Mid-con has been through many changes over the years. There are still a couple of very weak schools in that conference, so 3, or 5, or 7 years down the road, expansion room exists. GWFC is consolidating and needs a couple of more tough as nails football programs to join a strong core of football schools. There is a strong possibility that when SDSU, NDSU, UC-Davis become eligible for the play-offs, that there could be 2 GWFC teams (out of the current 5) in the 1-AA play-offs. With the 2 SU's anchoring the mid-con, move-ups from the NCC would be more favorably evaluated. Generally speaking, it's closer from the eastern Dakotas to get to Chicago/Detroit than to get into Idaho. In actuality, Big Sky is good for a three school package, but once there, the conference is filled until a school moves up their football program. So no potential beyond that change. Mid-con/GWFC has expansion capacities that Big Sky doesn't.

[nd1sufan]

I can see your point about NDSU being the "obvious" travel partner to No. Colorado. I mean who wouldn't want to play one bball game in greely one night, and a game in Fargo the next. Just a quick, cheap, little hop.

Have you looked at the geography of the Big Sky? What do you think is a tougher travel schedule? Hoping on an hour and a half flight from Denver to Fargo, or flying from Sacramento to Phoenix and then taking a 2-1/2 hour bus ride to Flagstaff? How about the 4 hour bus ride through the mountains in the middle of winter from Missoula to Bozeman? In case you haven't noticed yet, this is a plane league with some rather lengthy trips. From what we have heard, and I don't have a link or quote to prove it (sorry), most of the opposing coaches that have come to Fargo for a game are pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to into Fargo.

By the way, President Gamble from Montana State just told Hallstrom last week that he wants to add NDSU immediately. It wasn't over a year ago as you have claimed.

[The Sicatoka]

By the way, President Gamble from Montana State just told Hallstrom last week that he wants to add NDSU immediately. It wasn't over a year ago as you have claimed.

And wasn't he the guy that said the same thing about 18 months ago? Look what that was worth then.

[aff]

Have you looked at the geography of the Big Sky? What do you think is a tougher travel schedule? Hoping on an hour and a half flight from Denver to Fargo, or flying from Sacramento to Phoenix and then taking a 2-1/2 hour bus ride to Flagstaff? How about the 4 hour bus ride through the mountains in the middle of winter from Missoula to Bozeman? In case you haven't noticed yet, this is a plane league with some rather lengthy trips. From what we have heard, and I don't have a link or quote to prove it (sorry), most of the opposing coaches that have come to Fargo for a game are pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to into Fargo.

Oh, I see your point, since the conference already has a bunch of terrible travel partners, why not add one more? Great pitch. You guys need to give up on this. Like it or not, NDSU needs at least SDSU, and probably both SDSU and UND to get into the big sky. And even if all three are ready to go, its still unlikely to happen in the next 5 years. Why aren't you excited about the possibility of the mid con?

[star2city]

Oh, I see your point, since the conference already has a bunch of terrible travel partners, why not add one more? Great pitch. You guys need to give up on this. Like it or not, NDSU needs at least SDSU, and probably both SDSU and UND to get into the big sky. And even if all three are ready to go, its still unlikely to happen in the next 5 years. Why aren't you excited about the possibility of the mid con?

If, for example, you were an SDSU fan that lived in the Kansas City suburbs, I could understand being excited by the MidCOn.

Would many UND fans have much interest in the MidCOn schools? Very few - Midcon schools are not located where many alumni live, they are not located where we attract students from, its gets little media attention, the schools are by-and-large commuter-type schools, its academic reputation isn't the best, it would not provide any natural rivalries (from existing schools). Other than providing a stepping stone for a better DI conference later, basically it would suck. NDSU fans only seem to be for it because they are tired of being rejected by the Sky.

[DI IN FARGO]

If, for example, you were an SDSU fan that lived in the Kansas City suburbs, I could understand being excited by the MidCOn.

Would many UND fans have much interest in the MidCOn schools? Very few - Midcon schools are not located where many alumni live, they are not located where we attract students from, its gets little media attention, the schools are by-and-large commuter-type schools, its academic reputation isn't the best, it would not provide any natural rivalries (from existing schools). Other than providing a stepping stone for a better DI conference later, basically it would suck. NDSU fans only seem to be for it because they are tired of being rejected by the Sky.

If you guys had the cahona's to move up and were an independant you would be doing the same thing so don't be so quick to ridicule the Mid-Con. As far as the comment about NDSU's only chance at the BSC is with SDSU and UND is laughable. Maybe with SDSU yes but you still seem to think the BSC is looking at a DII school. You guys just don't get it, no conference is going to take you seriously when you haven't even declared. Don't hold your breath or throw to much dirt on any conference NDSU and or SDSU get in, you may be knocking on the same door someday.

[aff]

If, for example, you were an SDSU fan that lived in the Kansas City suburbs, I could understand being excited by the MidCOn.

Would many UND fans have much interest in the MidCOn schools? Very few - Midcon schools are not located where many alumni live, they are not located where we attract students from, its gets little media attention, the schools are by-and-large commuter-type schools, its academic reputation isn't the best, it would not provide any natural rivalries (from existing schools). Other than providing a stepping stone for a better DI conference later, basically it would suck. NDSU fans only seem to be for it because they are tired of being rejected by the Sky.

Starcity, if you think I'm 89Rabbit, then figure out how to check my IP address and locate it. Its not terribly difficult. Just ask the Moderator to tell you my IP. Tell him that I gave you full permission to have it. See if its from Kansas City or its suburbs. See if its from Brookings. Otherwise I think you need to take me at my word that I'm not 89Rabbit, living in Kansas City.

As for the SDSU and NDSU conference situation, who do you think is going to be rectruiting the better basketball players in the future if NDSU is in the big sky and SDSU is in the Midcon. Right now NDSU has a player from outside Kansas City, Riley, that both schools were after. If SDSU was in the Midcon and NDSU wasn't, where would he be going to school right now? How about players from Illinios, Missouri, and East? SDSU. Now what about the players that NDSU would be able to recruit. Haven't seen many from Cal. Washington, Montana etc. on either schools roster lately? What about the players from Minneapolis? Do you think they want their closest away game to be in Montana? Or maybe they could have ones east of the cities. If SDSU was in the midcon, it would be a dream come true for its fans and coaches from a basketball perspective. They would have the advantage over NDSU every time for recruits. If I was an SDSU fan I would like nothing better than NDSU to go to the Sky and SDSU to go to the mid con. It also leaves the door open for SDSU to the Missouri Valley, without having to wait for NDSU too. It also allows for better travel, having a drive to Kansas City for games against UMKC, and shorter flights to other destinations. But what does that matter, UND has games against Mayville state on the schedule, they should definitely be telling people that their conference "sucks". Playing Valporasio every year at home? Oakland? The same Oakland team that was playing Memphis two months ago on national television. But what does that matter when you can get the comets into play in front of 500 people?

I'm just stating that I really doubt the big sky will expand to only include a school what, 800 miles outside of its footprint? It doesn't make any sense, and Fullerton is full of crap. Sac isn't going to agree to it, and neither are the other west coast schools, and they've got the conference held hostage. All I was trying to say is that NDSU has a real possibility of an auto bid to the tournament for basketball coming up, and their fans are pretty much spitting on it. Its pretty sad. I hope that the midcon presidents get wind of the attitiude up in Fargo, and doesn't add them, and the Big Sky lets them sit until Sac Leaves in 15 years. Then we'll see where the superority goes to.

[DI IN FARGO]

Aff writes..I'm just stating that I really doubt the big sky will expand to only include a school what, 800 miles outside of its footprint? It doesn't make any sense, and Fullerton is full of crap. Sac isn't going to agree to it, and neither are the other west coast schools, and they've got the conference held hostage. All I was trying to say is that NDSU has a real possibility of an auto bid to the tournament for basketball coming up, and their fans are pretty much spitting on it. Its pretty sad. I hope that the midcon presidents get wind of the attitiude up in Fargo, and doesn't add them, and the Big Sky lets them sit until Sac Leaves in 15 years. Then we'll see where the superority goes to.

Once again Aff paints all with a broad brush, Saying that NDSU fans are spitting on the Mid-Con is so far out in left field. If you were to ask NDSU fan's the broad majority would be in favor of Both NDSU and SDSU getting into either conference. Both have their advantages but either would be fine.

[Bison Pride]

I agree, I think both conferences would be a decent fit, and I would like to see NDSU and SDSU in the same conference. I would think most Fans of those Universities feel this way.