Play it cool: Stay in school

[PCM]

I thought this comment by Brett Hull, as quoted by Todd Milewski in his weekly USCHO column, was interesting.

Hull has some advice for today's college players who start right after high school: stay in school.

Speaking before his jersey was retired by Minnesota-Duluth last Friday, Hull said it's better for players to develop today in college than in the minor leagues.

Hull, who recently retired after a 20-year NHL career in which he scored 741 goals, third-most in NHL history, left UMD after two seasons and spent most of the next season in the minors.

"I came to college a year late, so I was really a junior age," he said. "That was one of the decisions I had to take into account. But if you come right out of high school, I would recommend everyone playing the full four years."

"We started talking about the minors, and it's not a real pleasant place to develop," Hull said. "It's more run as a business now, as opposed to when I came out, it was a development league. If you were a top prospect, you were being groomed. And now, it's 'We need you to succeed,' and it's almost like old roller derby. Every night, there's a gimmick and the owners are taking you to the malls. You have no time and there are 10-, 12-hour bus rides.

"The extra years you'd get here developing as a person, as a student and as a player, I think is a much better place to be than riding the buses and getting beat down in the minor league system."

Please listen to Mr. Hull's sage advice, Matt, Drew, Travis, T.J., Brian, Jonathan and Joe.

Edited February 10, 2006 by PCM

[Just Curious]

You forgot Brian

[PCM]

You forgot Brian

Fixed.

[Goon]

"The extra years you'd get here developing as a person, as a student and as a player, I think is a much better place to be than riding the buses and getting beat down in the minor league system.

Please listen to Mr. Hull's sage advice, Matt, Drew, Travis, T.J., Brian, Jonathan and Joe.

I am sorry but Drew Stafford will be back for his senior year just MHO, the kid can't and hasn't score against though or ranked opponents. I just wonder what makes people think that he is leaving UND? Zajac I am hoping will stay for a year to play with his brother, Also, I am not sold on the fact that he is ready for the next level either wether it be in the AHL or the NHL. Maybe he should talk to the older Lundbohm. I had a conversation with a guy the other day on this very subject. I said, "Is Travis as good as Zach Parise (nope) is Travis as good as Gionta (not even close) is Travis as good as Rass or John Madden (I don't think so) I don't see who he is going to replace in the Devils Line up? I am just hoping he stays one more year. That being I don't think Travis has done much more than Drew this season. Just wondering. As far as Matt Smaby the kid is a serious monster, but I am not so sure he would be able to step in down in TB either right now.

[THETRIOUXPER]

The bottom line is you go when the team who owns your rights says it's time for you to go. If they are ready to take you and you don't sign there are always risks involved, injuries, ect.

[Goon]

The bottom line is you go when the team who owns your rights says it's time for you to go. If they are ready to take you and you don't sign there are always risks involved, injuries, ect.

You have to go into the corner to get hurt.

[THETRIOUXPER]

You have to go into the corner to get hurt.

And exactly who are you refering to here Goon ?

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Stafford, is acutually a perfect example of someone who should stay the full four years. We tend to forget how young he is and unless he goes on some kind of magical scoring streak the rest of the season, with the lineup that Buffalo has generated this season he would be looking forward to at least a full year in the minors. I believe that the two bigger flight risks from this years team are Smaby and Parise

[siouxnami]

I am sorry but Drew Stafford will be back for his senior year just MHO, the kid can't and hasn't score against though or ranked opponents. I just wonder what makes people think that he is leaving UND? Zajac I am hoping will stay for a year to play with his brother, Also, I am not sold on the fact that he is ready for the next level either wether it be in the AHL or the NHL. Maybe he should talk to the older Lundbohm. I had a conversation with a guy the other day on this very subject. I said, "Is Travis as good as Zach Parise (nope) is Travis as good as Gionta (not even close) is Travis as good as Rass or John Madden (I don't think so) I don't see who he is going to replace in the Devils Line up? I am just hoping he stays one more year. That being I don't think Travis has done much more than Drew this season. Just wondering. As far as Matt Smaby the kid is a serious monster, but I am not so sure he would be able to step in down in TB either right now.

Look at National Goal Scoring Leaders...

[deedub]

Stafford, is acutually a perfect example of someone who should stay the full four years. We tend to forget how young he is and unless he goes on some kind of magical scoring streak the rest of the season, with the lineup that Buffalo has generated this season he would be looking forward to at least a full year in the minors. I believe that the two bigger flight risks from this years team are Smaby and Parise

Here is a different take on why players leave early: I was speaking with one of the Hale brothers a few years ago and he signed with an NHL team ( I forget who) b/c he recieved a $700k signing bonus. Then I asked him if he stayed his final year if he would get more and he said no. Basically, he said if he plays a year or two in a minor league system or another year @ UND he would recieve the same signing bonus and if he finished his 4 years @ UND he would still have to spend a few years in the minors. One more point is, the minors get a player "NHL" ready were as college hockey does not, even as competitive as the WCHA is.

So maybe these guys just take the money and go. I mean honestly if someone gave you a couple hundred grand would you not do the same?

[AZSIOUX]

for the most part the only reason players leave is the $$$$. if there is a offer out there that may be close to the max you may get by coming out the year after then of course you will come out instead of risking injury and throwing it all away. on the other hand the new thing in todays age is taking out the insurance claim to make sure you still end up with some cash if your career ends, thats only of course if you are good enough to be guarenteed a decent conract and signing bonus...

money talks, i have no problem with any sioux underclassmen leaving early if they are READY to make the jump and i have complete faith in the sioux coaches that they let their players know if they are ready or not. blais was that way and i believe its been passed on. of course there are exceptions to staying 4 years, you may not be good enough for pro or there may be a few that just simply want to stay 4 years even if they are good enough to go pro. either way i have learned to enjoy these top recruits we are so lucky to watch each season in the green and white. you never know how long they will stay...

[deedub]

for the most part the only reason players leave is the $$$$. if there is a offer out there that may be close to the max you may get by coming out the year after then of course you will come out instead of risking injury and throwing it all away. on the other hand the new thing in todays age is taking out the insurance claim to make sure you still end up with some cash if your career ends, thats only of course if you are good enough to be guarenteed a decent conract and signing bonus...

money talks, i have no problem with any sioux underclassmen leaving early if they are READY to make the jump and i have complete faith in the sioux coaches that they let their players know if they are ready or not. blais was that way and i believe its been passed on. of course there are exceptions to staying 4 years, you may not be good enough for pro or there may be a few that just simply want to stay 4 years even if they are good enough to go pro. either way i have learned to enjoy these top recruits we are so lucky to watch each season in the green and white. you never know how long they will stay...

This may be the case in college football and college basketball but I don't think so in college hockey. The NHL took a beating last year by locking out and the demand for the NHL product is not as strong as it once was.

Furthermore, when I spoke with said Hale brother, that was one of his other reasons to sign early. He knew about the new CBA and a possibility of a lock-out

[AZSIOUX]

This may be the case in college football and college basketball but I don't think so in college hockey. The NHL took a beating last year by locking out and the demand for the NHL product is not as strong as it once was.

Furthermore, when I spoke with said Hale brother, that was one of his other reasons to sign early. He knew about the new CBA and a possibility of a lock-out

i believe there are some players with insurance on their bodies in college hockey. i believe there was a article on this either in the herald or somewhere else. i was not saying that a lot of players do this in college hockey but just like you bolded in my post i mentioned it usually only happens to players that are guarenteed big money or bonuses...

[deedub]

i believe there are some players with insurance on their bodies in college hockey. i believe there was a article on this either in the herald or somewhere else. i was not saying that a lot of players do this in college hockey but just like you bolded in my post i mentioned it usually only happens to players that are guarenteed big money or bonuses...

You know what AZ you are probably right. I guess if you are a "superstar" and "can't miss" then you might have an insurance policy.

My apologies, can we still be friends?

[AZSIOUX]

You know what AZ you are probably right. I guess if you are a "superstar" and "can't miss" then you might have an insurance policy.

My apologies, can we still be friends?

sure

[82SiouxGuy]

The article was in late November. It said that in some cases the family pays for the insurance up front and in other cases the student is able to borrow the premium and pay for it out of the signing bonus (or insurance payment). I think the amount of the policy is at least partially determined by draft position or other rankings that can predict potential signing bonuses.

[Siouxdonyms]

for the most part the only reason players leave is the $$$$. if there is a offer out there that may be close to the max you may get by coming out the year after then of course you will come out instead of risking injury and throwing it all away. on the other hand the new thing in todays age is taking out the insurance claim to make sure you still end up with some cash if your career ends, thats only of course if you are good enough to be guarenteed a decent conract and signing bonus...

money talks, i have no problem with any sioux underclassmen leaving early if they are READY to make the jump and i have complete faith in the sioux coaches that they let their players know if they are ready or not. blais was that way and i believe its been passed on. of course there are exceptions to staying 4 years, you may not be good enough for pro or there may be a few that just simply want to stay 4 years even if they are good enough to go pro. either way i have learned to enjoy these top recruits we are so lucky to watch each season in the green and white. you never know how long they will stay...

I agree that money is a big part of it, but I think even more, it's the player's desire to play at the next level. If a team who holds your rights wants you to make the jump to the next level, they must feel you're ready, and want you to start preparing for the NHL. I don't know if I agree that money is as big of a deal as what is being stated here. Granted, these are young men getting some hefty offers from teams, but I believe that these players want to make the right choice overall. Look at ZPar. I hated it that he left after two years, especially after the early exit from the NCAA tournament that the Sioux had that year. However, in reality, what else could he have accomplished at the college level. He could have come back, and most likely won the Hobey, and had another chance at a national championship, but as far as honing his skills, I thought he did that. With that being said, Zach was pretty upset that he passed up his two years of college eligibility and never had the chance to play for the Devils that spring. I think he was under the impression that he would have that chance. Overall, I think it depends on the players. The large majority of our players (if not all of them), come to UND to help them get to the next level. They also obtain a quality education while doing so. I believe it was Commodore's mom who wanted him to stay in school for his junior year and probably his senior year to obtain a degree, yet probably realized that he needed to make the move that he did to the pros when he did. However, a player like Travis Roche was definitely not a scholar, and came to UND as a step to the next level. I doubt Travis ever thought he'd be at UND for all 4 years.

[PCM]

Dave Hakstol said on the coaches' show this week that Matt Greene could have turned pro last year but didn't. I've heard from very reliable sources that Matt Jones could have gone pro after his junior year but didn't. Same thing for Jordan Leopold.

While most players go when the team that drafted them calls, it's not necessarily a given that they will.

[dagies]

Dave Hakstol said on the coaches' show this week that Matt Greene could have turned pro last year but didn't. I've heard from very reliable sources that Matt Jones could have gone pro after his junior year but didn't. Same thing for Jordan Leopold.

While most players go when the team that drafted them calls, it's not necessarily a given that they will.

I believe David Hale could have gone a year earlier than he did as well.

[choyt3]

When the resident siouxsports.com talent expert says a player is 99% going pro after this year, that's nearly enough to stamp "guaranteed" on the bull's A$$... oh, wait... nevermind.

[Slap Shot]

One more point is, the minors get a player "NHL" ready were as college hockey does not, even as competitive as the WCHA is.

Not according to Hull:

"We started talking about the minors, and it's not a real pleasant place to develop," Hull said. "It's more run as a business now, as opposed to when I came out, it was a development league. If you were a top prospect, you were being groomed. And now, it's 'We need you to succeed,' and it's almost like old roller derby. Every night, there's a gimmick and the owners are taking you to the malls. You have no time and there are 10-, 12-hour bus rides.

"The extra years you'd get here developing as a person, as a student and as a player, I think is a much better place to be than riding the buses and getting beat down in the minor league system."

[siouxperstar]

I am sorry but Drew Stafford will be back for his senior year just MHO, the kid can't and hasn't score against though or ranked opponents. I just wonder what makes people think that he is leaving UND? Zajac I am hoping will stay for a year to play with his brother, Also, I am not sold on the fact that he is ready for the next level either wether it be in the AHL or the NHL. Maybe he should talk to the older Lundbohm. I had a conversation with a guy the other day on this very subject. I said, "Is Travis as good as Zach Parise (nope) is Travis as good as Gionta (not even close) is Travis as good as Rass or John Madden (I don't think so) I don't see who he is going to replace in the Devils Line up? I am just hoping he stays one more year. That being I don't think Travis has done much more than Drew this season. Just wondering. As far as Matt Smaby the kid is a serious monster, but I am not so sure he would be able to step in down in TB either right now.

What are you sorry for?? Having a less than "professional" opinion?? I repeat what I earlier stated in an earlier posting this week--maybe these pros know something you don't:

As I opened my Hockey News' special issue, the 2006 Future Watch magazine, I was really pleased that many of the current Fighting Sioux have been recognized as talented players with much future potential in the NHL. The top 50, chosen by 21 NHL scouts & NHL team reports include the following:

Stafford at 16th

Zajac at 21st

Lee at 22nd

Oshie at 33

Stafford (Sabres) & Zajac (Devils)are both considered their team's top prospect--great news for them--scary for us! Great individual evaluations on all the guys too, plus a mention of Toews as well.

[KTF]

I think what many people are forgetting is the new CBA will actually spur more players to leave early. Someone like Drew may hang around because he is under the old CBA but T.J will be under intense pressure to sign probably after his sophmore year. Remember that if players aren't signed before their senior year, they become UFA at the completion of their last year. I have heard the Wild's GM on TV stating that you will see very many players being signed from the college ranks after their sophmore and junior seasons because of this.

[Goon]

I think what many people are forgetting is the new CBA will actually spur more players to leave early. Someone like Drew may hang around because he is under the old CBA but T.J will be under intense pressure to sign probably after his sophmore year. Remember that if players aren't signed before their senior year, they become UFA at the completion of their last year. I have heard the Wild's GM on TV stating that you will see very many players being signed from the college ranks after their sophmore and junior seasons because of this.

I can think of two Jr's from ND playing down at Minnesota that I wolud love to see signed after this season.

[redwing77]

I think what many people are forgetting is the new CBA will actually spur more players to leave early. Someone like Drew may hang around because he is under the old CBA but T.J will be under intense pressure to sign probably after his sophmore year. Remember that if players aren't signed before their senior year, they become UFA at the completion of their last year. I have heard the Wild's GM on TV stating that you will see very many players being signed from the college ranks after their sophmore and junior seasons because of this.

Really? Every version of the CBA I heard stated that an NCAA (NCAA Bound) player drafted by a team would become an UFA the August after his class graduates.

If what you said was true, KTF, then Smaby, Stafford, Irman, Potulny, and Harrington (to name a few) would have signed by now.

Here's the direct quote from the CBA itself (found here):

A player selected who is a bona fide college student at the time of such selection or who becomes a bona fide college student prior to June 1 of the calendar year next following the date of his selection may be retained on the Reserve List of the claiming Club as an "unsigned draft choice" so long as he remains a bona fide college student and thereafter for 180 days plus the period between the end of said 180 days and the next June 1; provided always that such a player may at any time by notice in writing delivered to the claiming Club, with copy to the Central Registry, declare his desire to be tendered a Player Contract with that Club.

So, in truth, when Oshie graduates (if he were staying all 4 years), the St. Louis Blues would have 180 days from the last day of that NCAA season (and any days in excess to that 180 days between the end of that 180 days and the following June 1st) to sign him before becoming an UFA.

PCM- Google is good, no?