No O from the D

[PCM]

I know the Sioux pride themselves on having defensemen who play defense first and offense second. Personally, I prefer that approach.

However, the lack of scoring production from UND's D-corps is getting disconcerting. It seems to me that this is one trend that needs to change if the Sioux are going to have success down the stretch and into the post-seasoon.

After the defense scored 9 goals in the first 18 games of the season, only 1 goal has been scored by a Sioux defenseman in the last 14 games. That was on Dec. 30 when Matt Smaby scored against Harvard.

This lack of scoring surprises me because the Sioux have more mobility and offensive capability on defense than they've had since the late 90s. I also know that we're young at that position, which might have something to do with it.

In the series at Minnesota, the Gophers D-corps outshot the Sioux D-corps 26-8.

Against St. Cloud, the Huskies D-corps outshot the Sioux D-corps 17-9.

Against Colorado College, the Tigers D-corps outshot the Sioux D-corps 21-8.

It seems to me that by not having our defensemen more involved in the offense, we're making it much easier for the opposition to defend against our forwards. Anyone else bothered by this trend?

[farce poobah]

Great question.

How about if we follow the thread a bit and split "defensive production" into 2 broad categories - power play and even strength.

On the powerplay, I've seen a fair amount of 4-forward play, more than earlier in the season. Maybe a chance to get some of the D guys with tired legs more rest? Or maybe, more likely, we've got enough depth at forward. Bottom line, for most teams a lot of shots come on powerplays. If our D are playing less on PP, then they will get fewer shots. This is natural and OK, provided the 4-Forward PP is getting chances.

Even strength, I think your observation is dead on. Thinking about play in the zone ... if the puck comes back to the point, the D has really 3 choices. 1) throw it at the net. 2) toss it deep, 3) go D-to-D. I haven't seen much of #1 lately, and I think that makes it easier for the opposing forwards to cheat off their man (if he aint a threat to score, why not). In turn, our 3-on-3 down low becomes less effective.

But it would be overly simplistic to just say its the D fault for not throwing the puck at the net. Question is also whether the forwards are getting around the net. In this day and age, point shots don't go in unless deflected.

Bottom line, there is tremendous raw INDIVIDUAL talent on this team. But its not yet turned into consistently great play as a TEAM. As a team, we're rapidly getting better in our defensive zone. Offense, scoring 5x5, is a lot harder to master, and that's not there yet.

Long way of saying I agree with your note.

[jk]

I agree that it would be helpful to have the defensemen scoring more. I think a big reason it isn't happening is the old youth angle. The Sicatoka has posted a theory on a defenseman's career progression (which I don't remember well) that goes something like this:

First year: Acclimate to the speed of the game; basically just get comfortable and survive.

Second year: Control the defensive zone.

Third year: Gain offensive confidence.

Fourth year: Dominate all over the ice.

Smaby has added some confidence with the puck, but, let's face it, that's not where his focus should be. He should be serving healthy portions of punishment, and he's doing a great job of that. As smooth as some of the young guys are, they're still adjusting (and I include Radke in this group). They might spend the rest of the year adjusting, and it might mean the team won't be going very far this Spring. And while that would be disappointing, it shouldn't come as a gigantic surprise.

One last thing is that the team's scoring has been near the top of the league for most of the year, so they must be doing something right.

OK, the real last thing is that Bina's absence is really felt here.

[skateshattrick]

I know the Sioux pride themselves on having defensemen who play defense first and offense second. Personally, I prefer that approach.

However, the lack of scoring production from UND's D-corps is getting disconcerting. It seems to me that this is one trend that needs to change if the Sioux are going to have success down the stretch and into the post-seasoon.

After the defense scored 9 goals in the first 18 games of the season, only 1 goal has been scored by a Sioux defenseman in the last 14 games. That was on Dec. 30 when Matt Smaby scored against Harvard.

This lack of scoring surprises me because the Sioux have more mobility and offensive capability on defense than they've had since the late 90s. I also know that we're young at that position, which might have something to do with it.

In the series at Minnesota, the Gophers D-corps outshot the Sioux D-corps 26-8.

Against St. Cloud, the Huskies D-corps outshot the Sioux D-corps 17-9.

Against Colorado College, the Tigers D-corps outshot the Sioux D-corps 21-8.

It seems to me that by not having our defensemen more involved in the offense, we're making it much easier for the opposition to defend against our forwards. Anyone else bothered by this trend?

Yes. However, I am not sure it is more of a function of the style that Hakstol and Berry want to play or if it because the Sioux are not recruiting defensemen with offensive abilities. I tend to think that it is the former since both Hakstol and Berry were "stay at home" defensemen and Chorney and Radke (and even Lee) were touted as defensemen with good offensive abilities. Historically, the Sioux have always had at least one defenseman with offensive abilities--Hangslaben, Kidd, Murphy, Naumenko, Williamson, Roche. It seems that Denver and UM have had a lot of these type of defensemen in recent years (Denver with Caldwell, Skinner and Carle. UM with Ballard, Goligoski and others). I hope that the lack of offensive production is youth, but I doubt it. I agree that it is good to have physical, stay at home defenseman, but it is important to have at least one defenseman with offensive abilities for the powerplay and to carry the puck out of the defensive zone.

[dagies]

Yes. However, I am not sure it is more of a function of the style that Hakstol and Berry want to play or if it because the Sioux are not recruiting defensemen with offensive abilities. I tend to think that it is the former since both Hakstol and Berry were "stay at home" defensemen and Chorney and Radke (and even Lee) were touted as defensemen with good offensive abilities. Historically, the Sioux have always had at least one defenseman with offensive abilities--Hangslaben, Kidd, Murphy, Naumenko, Williamson, Roche. It seems that Denver and UM have had a lot of these type of defensemen in recent years (Denver with Caldwell, Skinner and Carle. UM with Ballard, Goligoski and others). I hope that the lack of offensive production is youth, but I doubt it. I agree that it is good to have physical, stay at home defenseman, but it is important to have at least one defenseman with offensive abilities for the powerplay and to carry the puck out of the defensive zone.

I wonder if some of this might be because the coaches are trying to keep the young D focused on learning the defensive aspect of the game at the D1 level before turning loose their offensive skills. I think of Paul Martin at MN who really did relatively little offensively his first year and if I remember it was because he was focusing on learning the defensive game. Seems like often times kids that have played high school D have more to learn defensively than offensively at this level, so they have to focus on learning defense first.

Just my impression, but I could see that as an explanation.

[Sioux-cia]

Smaby struggled in his freshman. Look how much he's progressed. Hak said during a radio interview that the freshman should no longer be considered freshman this second half of the season. While they're playing much better, they still have a way to go. I'm happy to see Finley showing more agression than he did the start of they year.

[Siouxdonyms]

I wonder if some of this might be because the coaches are trying to keep the young D focused on learning the defensive aspect of the game at the D1 level before turning loose their offensive skills. I think of Paul Martin at MN who really did relatively little offensively his first year and if I remember it was because he was focusing on learning the defensive game. Seems like often times kids that have played high school D have more to learn defensively than offensively at this level, so they have to focus on learning defense first.

I agree. Defensive players due tend to take a little longer to develop than forwards. I don't recall Naumenko, Murphy, or Williamson contributing tons until sophomore, junior and senior year. Roche was an exception who jumped in right away, but had a little more experience, and had to sit out some time before he could play. IMO, it's a lot more difficult for younger players to learn the defensive role rather than offensive. It may have something to do with Hak and Berry's playing style, but I highly doubt it. The most productive offensive defenseman in the league tend to have experience under their belt, which is something the majority of our corp is trying to get. Unfortunately, our guys most likely won't contribute much more than they have already this year, but let's hope for the best.

[SIOUXELEVENS]

Does anyone have figures from last years defenseman and how much they were involved in scoring.

[dagies]

Here you go Redwing.

I'm just kidding!

Last Year Total Points = 136g + 223a = 359 total points

Last Year Defensemen Points = 19g + 65a = 84 total points

Fuher 7-22-29

Jones 6-11-17

Schneider 2-8-10

Greene 2-8-10

Bina 0-9-9

Radke 1-2-3

Smaby 1-2-3

Foyt 0-2-2

Marvin 0-1-1

[#1 Sioux Fan]

Remembering last years d corp and the offense they put up (don't know any #'s) and looking at this years freshman d corp, you have to expect that offense production is down. These kids are young and still settling in, even if it is the second half of the season. I think that offense will come next year and watch out, these boys could put on a good show (Lee, Jones, Radke, and possibly Chorney-minney-) I agree with the statment that they are still learning to play d at the college level and offense will come with time.

[Sioux-per Villain]

I tend to agree but it could be a combination of things. Lately, the majority of the Sioux's powerplays have had (at best) one defenseman on the ice. Usually it's Chorney which does influence shot counts. Perhaps our supposed offensive defensemen are in the coach's doghouse, or due to the importance of the last few games, they simply want their 5 best offensive players on the ice to get goals. (Seems like desperation to me) In any case, its clear that the focus is not to get the defense more involved in the offense which does concern me but what are you going to do? Our offensive defensemen are simply not getting it done and IMO, it centers primarily on Brian Lee. Big burden for such a young kid and I think its had an impact on his confidence. He needs to focus on his foot speed, develop a hard slapshot, and improve his ability to hold the offensive zone while making crisp passes. Hopefully we'll be able to work this out vesus our weaker opponents at home the rest of the season. I sure like having Oshie, Zajac, Spirko, Stafford, and Toews out there at the same time because its fun to watch, but probably not healthy long term.

[redwing77]

Here you go Redwing.

I'm just kidding!

Last Year Total Points = 136g + 223a = 359 total points

Last Year Defensemen Points = 19g + 65a = 84 total points

Fuher 7-22-29

Jones 6-11-17

Schneider 2-8-10

Greene 2-8-10

Bina 0-9-9

Radke 1-2-3

Smaby 1-2-3

Foyt 0-2-2

Marvin 0-1-1

What did I do?

Oh, and by the way, Foyt's 2 assists came when he played forward, so I don't think you can count that on the stat sheet

Marvin's assist MIGHt also be when he was playing forward as well. Same thing with some of Bina's assists as he did play some at forward last year.

[dagies]

What did I do?

Oh, and by the way, Foyt's 2 assists came when he played forward, so I don't think you can count that on the stat sheet

Marvin's assist MIGHt also be when he was playing forward as well. Same thing with some of Bina's assists as he did play some at forward last year.

I was just joshing rayman03 for not looking it up for himself. I agree that a few of those points may have been scored when the players were at forward, but the overall affect wasn't worth having to go and check them out. Thanks for doing that!