Student Behavior @ The Ralph

[PCM]

My cause - please tell me what you are interpretting as my cause. All I am saying is admin and the students need to work together to help meet the common good - what is so wrong with that? Is compromise such an awful word?

Of course acceptable behavior can be compromised. You can't just expect people to meet the minimal standards of public behavior for no reason at all. It's totally unrealistic. You can't expect people to be courteous of one another just for the heck of it. What kind of fool thinks like that?

If students don't get something out of the deal, they have every right to continue their classless behavior. That's just how it works. It's not their fault that nobody's listening to them. It's not their fault that they have no incentive to treat others as they want to be treated.

In fact, there's no reason this principle can't be applied in other areas of life. Whether it's a library, movie theater, bar, play, concert or any other public place or event, nobody should have to conform to any standard of public behavior if they don't get something out of it in return. It's a brilliant concept!

[Siouxdonyms]

Of course acceptable behavior can be compromised. You can't just expect people to meet the minimal standards of public behavior for no reason at all. It's totally unrealistic. You can't expect people to be courteous of one another just for the heck of it. What kind of fool thinks like that?

If students don't get something out of the deal, they have every right to continue their classless behavior. That's just how it works. It's not their fault that nobody's listening to them. It's not their fault that they have no incentive to treat others as they want to be treated.

In fact, there's no reason this principle can't be applied in other areas of life. Whether it's a library, movie theater, bar, play, concert or any other public place or event, nobody should have to conform to any standard of public behavior if they don't get something out of it in return. It's a brilliant concept!

I feel like I'm back in my first psychology class. What is normal?

[SFSIOUX#1]

Of course acceptable behavior can be compromised. You can't just expect people to meet the minimal standards of public behavior for no reason at all. It's totally unrealistic. You can't expect people to be courteous of one another just for the heck of it. What kind of fool thinks like that?

If students don't get something out of the deal, they have every right to continue their classless behavior. That's just how it works. It's not their fault that nobody's listening to them. It's not their fault that they have no incentive to treat others as they want to be treated.

In fact, there's no reason this principle can't be applied in other areas of life. Whether it's a library, movie theater, bar, play, concert or any other public place or event, nobody should have to conform to any standard of public behavior if they don't get something out of it in return. It's a brilliant concept!

I know that I am committing SIOUXSPORTS.com forum suicide because I am questioning the almighty PCM but please let me know what it is that the students are doing that is SO TERRIBLE during games. I already noted in a previous thread that I do feel they need to address the F-bombs. But what else is really so bad? I sit in the arena and don't see anything that is that BAD that we are comparing the Ralph to the chaos exhibited at the New Orleans Superdome after the hurricane. Maybe I am missing something but outside of the F-bomb I just ain't getting where the students are getting such a bum rap. Please share your infinite wisdom with me.

[Diggler]

Maybe compromise isn't the right word. I think students would just like REA to use their many resources to get others more involved. They certainly don't deserve cookies and milk at every game. Though gettting cupholders back would be nice.

[dlsiouxfan]

One point that is really lost in this debate is the fact that the same student who feels like he's being pushed around by the university now could still have the same feelings later on when he's an alumni. Most of the current season ticket holders probably fell in love with Sioux hockey when they were a student and most likely a majority of them engaged in some unruly behavior at the Old Ralph. If students no longer feel like they're welcome at the games when these student become alumni they'll no longer have the strong desire to attend Sioux hockey games and pay the thousands of dollars it costs to get season tickets. UND/REA should remember that same student whose being told to sit down and shut up now 10 years from now will be the person they'll be expecting to shell out big bucks for tickets.

[Sioux-cia]

Maybe I am missing something but outside of the F-bomb I just ain't getting where the students are getting such a bum rap.

Let's see, hmmm, standing and obstructing the view of the people sitting behind you and beside you may be seen as a big friggin' deal to those folk, ya think?

No cupholders? When were they removed? Any special reason they were taken out?

[siouxjoy]

OK, fine. Cut the sarcasm. What is the solution? I'm serious. Students need to sit more and not swear, so how is that going to be accomplished?. How are we going to get this to happen? How can students work with REA to get it done? And don't say I don't know, the students should just figure it out for themselves. That doesn't help any. It makes it seem like people want to point out the obvious problems, but want no part in helping to solve the problem. Sure it ultimately falls upon the students to solve and implement the solutions to the problem, but helping out sure doesn't hurt any.

And once again the point of students feel like they are being persecuted is ignored. Why? That is a problem and it has to be figured out. You can sarcastically make fun of me and the point if you really want to, but the problem will still exist in the minds of the students. How do we solve that problem? Fix this problem and it will go a long way to solving the swearing and standing I believe. It's stupid but students, like all people, will be much more receptive when they feel like they are being respected. This meeting has the opporunity to start the path towards this happening and I hope it does.

My suggestions:

--Organize. Whether it be the Sioux Crew or another group, prepare a united front. Show that there are more of the good, die-hard student fans than the idiots who are there to be seen and to get drunk and swear for the sake of swearing. I think the student government has been working a little, but if they feel like they don't have support, how hard are they going to work on these issues?

--Come up with ideas. There have been a lot of good thoughts on this board, and I am sure there are more. Students should not go to the meeting empty-handed. That is the key to negotiation. No party should expect reasonable discussion if they have nothing to contribute besides "nuh-uh" and "you aren't being fair" This may be the hardest part. Not only do people need to come up with suggestions, but also how to implement them. It's a lot of work, but unless someone owns a project or idea, it won't be seen all the way to fruition.

--Work with the other season ticket holders. Right now the impression is that it's those pesky drunk irresponsible students versus the folks who pay $$$$ to the Fighting Sioux Club. Make it clear to all parties that EVERYONE is cheering for the same team, so compromise shouldn't be hard.

--Be realistic. We all know that the arena was built in a way that blocks the view of people in the suites when students stand. Pretty sure there's nothing to be done about it now. So some kind of compromise needs to be made to ensure that ALL fans have a good experience at an arena UND is blessed to have.

--Take the high road. Yeah, students have been treated crappy before. Then what? How does that justify making sure that the suiteholders can't see the game? It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy. People can't see, so they complain. Students are branded as inconsiderate and rude. Then, some idiots decide to stand, just to spite the group, thus becoming inconsiderate and rude students.

--As far as students feeling persecuted and ignored, I can't say anything, because I haven't been a full-time student for 5 years. I haven't been in the same situations students have. But, I do know that you can decide how you are going to feel, just how I decide I am going to feel. Decide that you aren't being persecuted. Decide that the decisions made in the past were made for a reason. They may not be good reasons, but there were reasons. (By the way, I find it hard to believe that any of the reasons involved making life miserable for students; each action done by the admin was done because something specific and negative happened...like telling someone to F themselves.) Now, also decide that future actions will also happen because of reasons. Decide that you are going to ensure that the future actions are going to be positive because you will provide positive reasons, and that students are not going to be ignored because you will persist. If this issue is so important to students, work hard for it!

--If the students go in to this meeting with a defeatist attitude, or even an all-or-nothing attitude, they will gain nothing. It has been mentioned many times that there is new administration. It's a clean slate--if you want to it be.

I don't know if this rambling was worth typing, but you asked for suggestions, and those are mine.

[Diggler]

They were removed about halfway through the first season I think because for some reason, a few students felt the need to steal/break them. Not sure why they thought this was cool.

The standing problem I think is the easiest problem to solve and will be solved after this meeting. All that needs to happen is a clear and consistant policy towards standing. The first year it was ok for students to stand during PP and select other times that were subjective but pretty obvious. It worked. The 2nd year this policy went away for some reason and since then there has been no stated policy toward standing and it's become a problem. Just make a policy about it, make sure students know the policy and it will be resolved. Swearing will be more difficult to solve, but it is doable.

Having students unite in a group like Sioux Crew is a great idea, but I don't think it would work. I don't know why either. At every other sporting event it works, Sioux Crew doesn't work at hockey games though. I have no idea why. Perhaps because 95% of students go to FB, BB, etc. for the game, while only 70% of students go to hockey for the game and 30% go to be seen or as an excuse to get drunk.

[SFSIOUX#1]

Let's see, hmmm, standing and obstructing the view of the people sitting behind you and beside you may be seen as a big friggin' deal to those folk, ya think?

No cupholders? When were they removed? Any special reason they were taken out?

It is a hockey game and in the course of the game people will stand. Watch any ESPN covered sports coverage of college games and the students stand. It generates energy that in turn creates or should create a home court advantage ala Duke Basketball and other numerous teams. This is were I think compromise can come into play - offer some sort of discount for those folks in those suites as they may need to stand more than normal. OF course that will go against the conventional wisdom of this forum as that would mean less in $$$'s for the Ralph.

[siouxjoy]

This issue is a dead horse. I am not going to come back for any more abuse. My opinion on this issue obviously differs from yours. I tried to make a point but just got flamed. You guys act like I am a gopher fan or something!

I wasn't trying to flame you, I just respectfully disagree with your opinion, and was trying to tell you why I disagree.

I apologize if you felt that I was doing anything other than that. Us Sioux fans gots to stick together.

[Taz Boy]

Students:

Help your cause by doing the following:

1) Learn the lyrics to the rouser "Stand Up and Cheer" and fight song "Fight On Sioux"

2) When you stand, jump up and down (I saw the Duke students doing this, kinda cool) and YELL.

3) Sit down when general play is underway, stand when appropriate.

4) Look up the definition of appropriate and then figure out when you should stand.

5) Sing the school song LOUDLY in unison whenever it is played.

6) Signs, signs, signs. Naughty but certainly not hostile or abusive.

7) Avoid "F*** the ____" chants in unison, feel free to curse individually when appropriate.

(like for roughly 53 minutes of last night's game)

8) Think of clever, suggestive cheers that bend, but not break the rules. Teach them to the crowd.

9) Find out the definition of clever.

10) What ever happened to the frozen animals?

[Diggler]

Frozen dead animals now get you kicked out of the game. This is one of the little things that REA could "overlook". It's really no harm and is something that could be eased up on without any real negative consequences.

[Sioux-cia]

It is a hockey game and in the course of the game people will stand. Watch any ESPN covered sports coverage of college games and the students stand. It generates energy that in turn creates or should create a home court advantage ala Duke Basketball and other numerous teams. This is were I think compromise can come into play - offer some sort of discount for those folks in those suites as they may need to stand more than normal. OF course that will go against the conventional wisdom of this forum as that would mean less in $$$'s for the Ralph.

It's not a matter of money. The folks who pay thousands of dollars for a suite, either as a personal or business expenditure, are not going to take a cut in cost vs seeing the game.

Believe it or not, there are suite holders who are as die hard fans as the students and maybe the clients/family/friends that they bring to the suite don't all watch the game, but they pay for the privilege; even if it's only Granma who wants to see the game, she should be able to.

[SFSIOUX#1]

It's not a matter of money. The folks who pay thousands of dollars for a suite, either as a personal or business expenditure, are not going to take a cut in cost vs seeing the game.

Believe it or not, there are suite holders who are as die hard fans as the students and maybe the clients/family/friends that they bring to the suite don't all watch the game, but they pay for the privilege; even if it's only Granma who wants to see the game, she should be able to.

So it sounds like compromise is not in your vocabulary? There has got to be some middle ground to appease both sides of the issue. Do you have any ideas for meeting eveyones needs or is it smiply all or none?

[Diggler]

Actually it is a matter of money. When it's ok for students in sections 308 and 309 to stand up because they are only blocking the view of fellow students, it's about money. At football games, many people get their view blocked by students standing, but it isn't considered a big deal. It's all about the money. That's fine though. Find out when they can and when they can't stand up and problem solved.

[Sioux-cia]

The first year it was ok for students to stand during PP and select other times that were subjective but pretty obvious. It worked. The 2nd year this policy went away for some reason and since then there has been no stated policy toward standing and it's become a problem. Just make a policy about it, make sure students know the policy and it will be resolved. Swearing will be more difficult to solve, but it is doable.

Having students unite in a group like Sioux Crew is a great idea, but I don't think it would work. I don't know why either. At every other sporting event it works, Sioux Crew doesn't work at hockey games though. I have no idea why. Perhaps because 95% of students go to FB, BB, etc. for the game, while only 70% of students go to hockey for the game and 30% go to be seen or as an excuse to get drunk.

If you look around the arena during a break away, scramble in front of the net, etc., nearly the whole stadium is standing. I would think the 'standing police' should be educated as to what is appropriate standing and 'nuisance' standing. They can then regulate standing according to hockey game 'norms'.

Are the seats directly in front of the suites kept empty? I seem to remember this was one of the solutions?

If student season ticket holders are really passionate about keeping their seats, they are going to have to take a pro-active role and police themselves and those around them to keep the profanity to a minimum.

[Sioux-cia]

So it sounds like compromise is not in your vocabulary? There has got to be some middle ground to appease both sides of the issue. Do you have any ideas for meeting eveyones needs or is it smiply all or none?

Damn straight I won't compromise between being able to watch the game or somebody's a$$. When I want to oogle a$$s, I watch a football game.

See my previous posts for my ideas.

[SFSIOUX#1]

II don't have a problem with the students standing, cheering, holding up signs, profanity etc. But the profanity does offend many including some students. Some one posted to leave your kids home. Another lame statement obviously made by someone who did not grow up in a hockey dominated area like GF.

Work together. Go to the meeting, state your position as students, offer solutions and COMPROMISE!!

Went back and found this where you say you don't mind the students standing and in another post you talk about not watching someboy's butt. So which is it do you or don't you mind the students that stand?

As for your statement of COMPROMISE - I believe that is what I have been saying all day today.

[Diggler]

Damn straight I won't compromise between being able to watch the game or somebody's a$$. When I want to oogle a$$s, I watch a football game.

Me too!! I mean....awww crap.

[Sioux-cia]

Me too!! I mean....awww crap.

[Fetch]

Students need to sit more and not swear, so how is that going to be accomplished?. How are we going to get this to happen?

Diggler .............Duct tape

[Sioux-cia]

Went back and found this where you say you don't mind the students standing and in another post you talk about not watching someboy's butt. So which is it do you or don't you mind the students that stand?

As for your statement of COMPROMISE - I believe that is what I have been saying all day today.

Sorry, I didn't take the time to qualify my standing statement earlier but if you read this

If you look around the arena during a break away, scramble in front of the net, etc., nearly the whole stadium is standing. I would think the 'standing police' should be educated as to what is appropriate standing and 'nuisance' standing. They can then regulate standing according to hockey game 'norms'.

, you'll see that I do distinquish between 'appropriate' standing and 'nuisance' standing.

[Diggler]

Diggler .............Duct tape

Either that or they should put sharpshooters in the catwalk above the ice. That way they could shoot anyone who stands up at an inappropriate time. That'd learn everyone real good. Students thought they were picked on before? They'll be wishing they minded their P's and Q's and listened when they were told to sit down by the ushers!

[Fetch]

Tazers ..............Now that would have entertainment value I bet they tazer a couple idiots a game & the crowd would go Nutz & show replays on the Big Screen

[Sioux-cia]

...they should put sharpshooters in the catwalk above the ice. That way they could shoot anyone who stands up at an inappropriate time. That'd learn everyone real good.

Well, ok...but only if they shoot to wound, not kill. Don't want the action on the ice to be affected after all.

I think they should shoot all 'inappropriate standers'. Oh, could they shoot the moron who sits behind me the one that thinks his shrill whistle actually has an affect on the game? Aw what the heck, I'll shoot him myself.