LETS MAKE A DECISION!

[coachdags]

I am tired of all the talk,all the studies,all the consultants,all of the arguements....UND you need to make a decision...

You guys all have College Degrees, lets use them...

This being in limbo between Div1 and Div2, is going to do nothing but,hurt our athletic landscape,until we make a decision one way or another....

We have already this year lost a couple of good recruits because of the indecsion agruement....lets decide?

[BringDeanBack]

I am tired of all the talk,all the studies,all the consultants,all of the arguements....UND you need to make a decision...

You guys all have College Degrees, lets use them...

This being in limbo between Div1 and Div2, is going to do nothing but,hurt our athletic landscape,until we make a decision one way or another....

We have already this year lost a couple of good recruits because of the indecsion agruement....lets decide?

Drop Men's BBall down to D3 so they can compete. All other sports to D1

[govikes27]

Good point dags! The administration better realize how detrimental all this uncertainty is to both the University and the NCC. Hopefully the study's finding will be a solid answer, not noncommital jiberish. THIS study is a bit quick to be thorough, but the issue has been looked at for years now. If we're DII state clearly once and for all; if we're going DI say it so we can focus on what needs to be done to get us there!

[bincitysioux]

I don't know how detrimental any indecision by UND on this issue is to recruiting, but I think that the fact that regional recruits now may have a DI option in the area that was never there before has the potential to be very damaging to UND recruiting in the future.

[coachdags]

I don't know how detrimental any indecision by UND on this issue is to recruiting, but I think that the fact that regional recruits now may have a DI option in the area that was never there before has the potential to be very damaging to UND recruiting in the future.

One of the things I find confusing is that to be at the Div1aa Level, our in state kids did not use to be NOT good enough, they needed more speed, more size, play better competition,....

It seems now that two local area football players that a couple of years would not have been good enough are the #1 prospects for a Div1aa school....So is it that now that we are all still recruiting the same kids?

Edited January 5, 2006 by coachdags

[Bison Pride]

I don't know how detrimental any indecision by UND on this issue is to recruiting, but I think that the fact that regional recruits now may have a DI option in the area that was never there before has the potential to be very damaging to UND recruiting in the future.

I think what is meant by indecision could be summed up in this, as reported in the Bison Media Blog regarding UND "I didn't know if or when they were going to go Division I and if they did, I didn't want to get caught up in the mix." -- Cavalier standout Matt Anderson on his decision between NDSU and UND

Right now I think that concern by recruits has to be the frustrating thing for UND.

[new2sioux2]

I guess this whole recruiting thing confuses me. It seems some kids just want to play D-I and don't care if they ever get anywhere in the play offs...they just want to say they play D-I. (this is ridiculous to me) Some talented kids go to established D-II programs (Womens BB @ UND) because they are not interested in playing on D-I teams that are not even play-off eligible for years or are not very successful programs, they would rather play for a title, even at the D-II level. I honestly believe that our women's bb team is as good and could compete with a number of low to midlevel D-I schools. If UND was to say it is going D-I, how many of those currently on this team would have made different choices because they don't want to play on a play-off ineligible team? They would have went to established D-I programs or to strong D-II programs. If UND is to go D-I, be prepared to stink for a long time...it just takes that to get through the ridiculous amount of time the NCAA makes you wait to be in the play-offs. Unfortunately, if UND does go D-I, they will have to go through this long period sooner or later. Also, one argument used now is that our geographical location hurts us in recruiting on the D-II level...and this will be a bonus on the D-I level how?

Edited January 5, 2006 by new2sioux2

[NDSU grad]

I guess this whole recruiting thing confuses me. It seems some kids just want to play D-I and don't care if they ever get anywhere in the play offs...they just want to say they play D-I. (this is ridiculous to me) Some talented kids go to established D-II programs (Womens BB @ UND) because they are not interested in playing on D-I teams that are not even play-off eligible for years or are not very successful programs, they would rather play for a title, even at the D-II level. I honestly believe that our women's bb team is as good and could compete with a number of low to midlevel D-I schools. If UND was to say it is going D-I, how many of those currently on this team would have made different choices because they don't want to play on a play-off ineligible team? They would have went to established D-I programs or to strong D-II programs. If UND is to go D-I, be prepared to stink for a long time...it just takes that to get through the ridiculous amount of time the NCAA makes you wait to be in the play-offs. Unfortunately, if UND does go D-I, they will have to go through this long period sooner or later. Also, one argument used now is that our geographical location hurts us in recruiting on the D-II level...and this will be a bonus on the D-I level how?

That argument could be made in basketball, but these football recruits will be eligible for the playoffs when they are sophomores (assuming they redshirt). And of course, NDSU will be competitive in the I-AA football playoffs, as would UND.

[4siouxnow]

I guess this whole recruiting thing confuses me. It seems some kids just want to play D-I and don't care if they ever get anywhere in the play offs...they just want to say they play D-I. (this is ridiculous to me) Some talented kids go to established D-II programs (Womens BB @ UND) because they are not interested in playing on D-I teams that are not even play-off eligible for years or are not very successful programs, they would rather play for a title, even at the D-II level. I honestly believe that our women's bb team is as good and could compete with a number of low to midlevel D-I schools. If UND was to say it is going D-I, how many of those currently on this team would have made different choices because they don't want to play on a play-off ineligible team? They would have went to established D-I programs or to strong D-II programs. If UND is to go D-I, be prepared to stink for a long time...it just takes that to get through the ridiculous amount of time the NCAA makes you wait to be in the play-offs. Unfortunately, if UND does go D-I, they will have to go through this long period sooner or later. Also, one argument used now is that our geographical location hurts us in recruiting on the D-II level...and this will be a bonus on the D-I level how?

I agree, I think you may see some athletes that are at UND now transfering, so that they can compete for something. I think you hit it right on the head many of the current athletes could have chosen mid lower D1 programs but came to UND to compete for a championship. If they just wanted to play for another mid majior they wouldn't have chose Grand Forks to do that.

[new2sioux2]

That argument could be made in basketball, but these football recruits will be eligible for the playoffs when they are sophomores (assuming they redshirt). And of course, NDSU will be competitive in the I-AA football playoffs, as would UND.

So are we to sacrifice all other programs for football?? I don't know a lot about all of the different levels and certainly not a lot about football, but I have heard comments like "DI-AA is just glorified D-II", it is still not on the level of USC, Texas, Florida, etc. Is it just the increase in scholarships that would improve UND's success at this I-AA level?? Why are we not successful at winning a National Championship at the D-II level, but going DI-AA will make us even better??

Edited January 5, 2006 by new2sioux2

[NDSU grad]

So are we to sacrifice all other programs for football??

IMO the only program you would be "sacrificing" is women's basketball.

"DI-AA is just glorified D-II"

Not trying to be smacky, but the only people I have heard that from is Sioux fans. DI-

AA is a higher level that DII, plain and simple. How much higher can be debated.

Men's basketball is the sport that has the most to gain. Whether it makes sense or not, local players seem to not want to be associated with the DII tag. There is no way NDSU would have the recruiting classes the last two year if we still DII. We maybe would have gotten one or two out of the nine that did commit.

[coachdags]

I think what is meant by indecision could be summed up in this, as reported in the Bison Media Blog regarding UND "I didn't know if or when they were going to go Division I and if they did, I didn't want to get caught up in the mix." -- Cavalier standout Matt Anderson on his decision between NDSU and UND

Right now I think that concern by recruits has to be the frustrating thing for UND.

Thank You!....That is exactly what has transpired...and until we fix it, it will continue to hurt our athletics

I am not saying Go Div 1. ...I am just Syaing LETS MAKE A DECISION!........Either way?

To Lose athletes to Indecision on UND not making a decision is unforgiveable......we have people in place ...DECIDE!

Edited January 5, 2006 by coachdags

[new2sioux2]

I am not trying to be smacky either, but...

IMO the only program you would be "sacrificing" is women's basketball.

This is the one program currently with a legitimate chance of winning not one, but several national championships in the next few years (excluding hockey of course) From previous posts on this board, it sounds like swimming/diving would take a huge hit too as far as being competitive. Track also.

DI-AA is a higher level that DII, plain and simple.

As I stated earlier...I don't know much about all of this. Is there separate play-offs for DI-AA? Who have the previous good teams/champions been? Do they compete against traditional D-I teams and are eligible to play in the traditional bowl games? Does the average person know?

I am not saying Go Div 1. ...I am just Syaing LETS MAKE A DECISION!........Either way?

I do agree with this. At least NDSU made their decision and they are getting done with this limbo period. I'm not sure it matters much now that NDSU is D-I, but when they are done with the time period..it will.

Edited January 5, 2006 by new2sioux2

[govikes27]

From previous posts on this board, it sounds like swimming/diving would take a huge hit too as far as being competitive.

Actually I don't see swimming and diving taking a "hit" at all. Our teams already compete against and have beaten multiple DI teams. We may not be a favorite to win nation titles anymore but I wouldn't see it as a step back. I'm no expert, but it seems considering how strong our program has been that a DI label might bring in better talent than we already do now.

[new2sioux2]

Actually I don't see swimming and diving taking a "hit" at all. Our teams already compete against and have beaten multiple DI teams. We may not be a favorite to win nation titles anymore but I wouldn't see it as a step back. I'm no expert, but it seems considering how strong our program has been that a DI label might bring in better talent than we already do now.

If that's true, then it would be a good thing. I don't follow swimming, but i've seen several posts on here saying that even some of the mens best times (I'm not sure if that's here at UND or at NCAA D-II swimming meets) wouldn't even qualify for certain womens events at the D-I level. I don't know if that's correct or not and that's what I was referring to, but certainly signing better athletes would have something to do with that.

[knowledge]

I'm ready to bump up! It's going to happen eventually......think about it. The DAC 10 (NAIA) is on its way to the crapper....Winning National Titles is great, but If I competing against Moorhead State, U of Mary and Sister Rosie's school for the blind, deaf and mute.....it means nothing. Obviously things need to change in some of the programs. Both Men's basketball and Volleyball must find coaches that can take them to the next level, recruit and have a passion for developing and winning. Sports like Football are ready to go. Let's level the playing field with SU. Bring back the rivalry in it's truest form. I'm not a S/D expert but I'd agree that they would probably be able to compete in the mid majors and work towards producing a few All-Americans. Baseball, Track, Softball and Soccer would need to become slightly greater priorities than they are otherwise they are just wasted budget. By that I don't mean cut the programs, but bring in coaches and Asst. Coaches that are willing to recruit and find talent. In all honesty baseball is probably never going to compete at a terribly high level thanks to location. I mean not even the Big Ten produces College WS teams on a consistent basis. If you are a good baseball player you are going to go somewhere that allows you to hone your skills year-round. The same can kind of be said for track.....however our area is producing more talent and right now they are all going to SU because of their comitment to TF. You would have to think based simply off of %'s that some of those kids would attend UND if they were as committed to the sport.

The facilities are for the most part in place. Basketball has a wonderful new arena, and has the benifit of the Ralph if necessary. Though I'd love to see the Betty rocking for a big game! Football is set. The track could use some improvements but realistically a Track Team travels more that it hosts events.

The only thing that worries me is finding a conference. I'm still a believer that if UND had moved up with SU that both would be in the Big Sky. SU's biggest problem with moving up has been the lack of a true conference in any sport! (inc. FBall) If UND can solve this quandry I think it's time to go! Don't wait around until the schedule is full of NSIC and DAC 10 schools! You're not going to draw the gates you need to be a good DII program if you are playing Crookston and Mary all the time!

[govikes27]

If that's true, then it would be a good thing. I don't follow swimming, but i've seen several posts on here saying that even some of the mens best times (I'm not sure if that's here at UND or at NCAA D-II swimming meets) wouldn't even qualify for certain womens events at the D-I level. I don't know if that's correct or not and that's what I was referring to, but certainly signing better athletes would have something to do with that.

I'm no expert at S/D either, but I know that this year UND has beaten Northern Iowa, Wyoming, and one of the mid-major Wisconsin schools (GB?), and have gotten DI A and B cuts competing against big-timers like Minnesota, North Carolina, and Notre Dame. As far as DI status effecting recruiting we can only speculate.

[govikes27]

I'm ready to bump up! It's going to happen eventually......think about it. The DAC 10 (NAIA) is on its way to the crapper....Winning National Titles is great, but If I competing against Moorhead State, U of Mary and Sister Rosie's school for the blind, deaf and mute.....it means nothing. Obviously things need to change in some of the programs. Both Men's basketball and Volleyball must find coaches that can take them to the next level, recruit and have a passion for developing and winning. Sports like Football are ready to go. Let's level the playing field with SU. Bring back the rivalry in it's truest form. I'm not a S/D expert but I'd agree that they would probably be able to compete in the mid majors and work towards producing a few All-Americans. Baseball, Track, Softball and Soccer would need to become slightly greater priorities than they are otherwise they are just wasted budget. By that I don't mean cut the programs, but bring in coaches and Asst. Coaches that are willing to recruit and find talent. In all honesty baseball is probably never going to compete at a terribly high level thanks to location. I mean not even the Big Ten produces College WS teams on a consistent basis. If you are a good baseball player you are going to go somewhere that allows you to hone your skills year-round. The same can kind of be said for track.....however our area is producing more talent and right now they are all going to SU because of their comitment to TF. You would have to think based simply off of %'s that some of those kids would attend UND if they were as committed to the sport.

The facilities are for the most part in place. Basketball has a wonderful new arena, and has the benifit of the Ralph if necessary. Though I'd love to see the Betty rocking for a big game! Football is set. The track could use some improvements but realistically a Track Team travels more that it hosts events.

The only thing that worries me is finding a conference. I'm still a believer that if UND had moved up with SU that both would be in the Big Sky. SU's biggest problem with moving up has been the lack of a true conference in any sport! (inc. FBall) If UND can solve this quandry I think it's time to go! Don't wait around until the schedule is full of NSIC and DAC 10 schools! You're not going to draw the gates you need to be a good DII program if you are playing Crookston and Mary all the time!

I too support UND moving up. It would be nice if DII had stayed as it was 30-40 years ago, but the truth is the Montana's and Deleware's and now NDSU's are being replaced by smaller ex-NAIA schools. Nothing wrong with this (if they are willing to step up support of their athletics)--but they aren't UND's peers. Yeah, it's funner to watch and support teams close to winning a national championship, but are we happy with who we are competing against? Maybe we are, but I think that, in the long run, there is a possibility of greater interest competing against our old rivals and DI competition than playing more and more DAC schools (which will happen next year with the NSIC getting bigger and looking for fewer nonconference games). Most people I know grumble that UND plays DAC schools more and more often. Well if we want better competition, would it not be logical to go up to the next level of competition? Yeah, you could say "then we would be playing Toledo and Manhattan and other schools we don't care about." Perhaps, but going by name recognition, playing Mesa St. and Colorado School of Mines doesn't sound thrilling either.

Sorry for the long post, but I just think that looking at the size of UND's enrollment, its facilities, local support, and budget, nothing really says DII, therefore I believe the study will recommend UND moving to DI. And it CAN be successful, if the community and students are willing to work with the university to make it happen.

[NDSU grad]

As I stated earlier...I don't know much about all of this. Is there separate play-offs for DI-AA? Who have the previous good teams/champions been? Do they compete against traditional D-I teams and are eligible to play in the traditional bowl games? Does the average person know?

I-AA has their own playoffs, and no, I-AA teams do not participate in the I-A bowls. Many I-AA teams play a DI-A every year. Next year NDSU is playing at Ball State, and in 07 they will play the Gophers. Appalachian State won the national championship this year, and some of the traditionally strong programs include Montana, Delaware, Georgia Southern, Furman, and Appalachian State.

[wcbsas]

Going to D1 WILL cost money.

Added scholarships, added travel and added administration.

Additionally if the football team adds significantly more scholarships than conceivably another woman's sport might have to be added.

It is relatively easy to quantify the extra costs.

The real question is how are you going to pay for those added costs? Being a D1 program will not result in significant increased fan attendance, will it? TV and radio monies won't change much. Will donors and boosters increase? Probably not. You MIGHT get an opportunity to have the football team walk in the Lincoln NE and get a $500k payday. Is that enough to pay for the increase costs?

Going D1 (D1AA for football) is more of a prestigious thing, comparability to NDSU and SDSU. There is synergy with those two, maybe Northern Colorado, maybe UNO, South Dakota - but that is only 6 you would need at least four other similar schools - Who?

[siouxjoy]

IMO the only program you would be "sacrificing" is women's basketball.

Not trying to be smacky, but the only people I have heard that from is Sioux fans. DI-

AA is a higher level that DII, plain and simple. How much higher can be debated.

Men's basketball is the sport that has the most to gain. Whether it makes sense or not, local players seem to not want to be associated with the DII tag. There is no way NDSU would have the recruiting classes the last two year if we still DII. We maybe would have gotten one or two out of the nine that did commit.

I believe that DIAA is better than DII, but I don't think there is a huge gap between the best in DII and the better DIAA teams.

I am just wondering how much of the players in the last two recruiting classes made their decision based on the DI classification alone, or if it was scholarship dollars, or a combination?

It's great to be able to tell a player they are going to play DI, but what about the money side of things? Doesn't having a bigger pool of dollars make it easier to "woo" players, with the DI tag being gravy? I am just thinking out loud, not trying to flame. What is your opinion?

[UND92,96]

It looks like there are a couple of articles in the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader today regarding the future of the NCC, and the whole dI issue at UND (and elsewhere). Unfortunately, they're apparently having technical problems with the website as I can't access any of today's sports stories. If it works later, I'll provide links.

[BisonMav]

This was also in the Argus Leader

UND move might exclude SDSU from conference

by Chris Solari

Should UND decide to move into DI, a scary question hangs over SDSU's head.

What happens if a conference-say the Big Sky-deems the UND-NDSU pairing worthy of admission and excludes SDSU?

It's a plausible scenario. In late 2004 the Fargo Forum uncovered a letter exchange between Kupchella and BSC commissioner Fullerton, who initiated the correspondence. This came after the league presidents told SDSU/NDSU to look elsewhere for a conference in early 2003 and before the BSC added UNC and turned doen the Rabbits/Bison 2nd overture on 12/13/2004.

Why would a UND-NDSU combination seem more attractive?

Foremost, their budgets are already at the level of most BSC schools. According to the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Postsecondary Education, the Bison's athletic budget for the 2004-05 school year was about $7.7 million. The Sioux's budget was morethan $10 million, which includes spending for it's DI hockey program.

SDSU spent more than $6.5 million on athletics a year ago.

Second, there is less distiance for BSC schools to go between Fargo and Grand Forks(80 miles) than between Brookings and Fargon(190 miles). Travel has been cited by the BSC presidents as a primary reason for not adding SDSU and NDSU.

The Bison and Sioux also have a heated rivalry that SDSU and NDSU don't possess-as well as historically strong DII football programs with national championships at that level.

In is favor, SDSU already is a DI provisonary school nearing the midway point of its 5 year transition. Like NDSU, the Rabbits will be eligible for NCAA postseason competition in the 2008-09 school year.

Fullerton said in December 2004 that UND still being a DII school that had not applied for DI status was a major issue.

Under DI bylaws, UND would have to notify the NCAA by 12/1/2006 if it intends to make the 2006-07 school year its exploratory year.

If that were to happen, the Sioux would not become full DI school eligible for postseason tournaments until 2011-12, 3 years after SDSU and NDSU.

[dlsiouxfan]

The UND athletic programs current level of success at the Division II level can be directly attributed to the fact that we have been able to get Division I and Division I-AA level athletes from the local areas due to the lack of Division I level schools recruiting in this area. If we start losing these kids to NDSU and SDSU we'll start to suffer in all our athletic programs (especially football) at the Division II level. Two examples of this are this year's instate recruiting where we've lost most of the top ND recruits to the Bison and also the fact that we haven't gotten a player out of SD (once a hotbed for future Sioux football players) in a number of years. If we aren't getting the talent we once were getting and soon we're struggling to put together winning seasons at the D-II level attendance will drop far more than it will during a D-I exploratory period.

[UND Fan]

The UND athletic programs current level of success at the Division II level can be directly attributed to the fact that we have been able to get Division I and Division I-AA level athletes from the local areas due to the lack of Division I level schools recruiting in this area. If we start losing these kids to NDSU and SDSU we'll start to suffer in all our athletic programs (especially football) at the Division II level. Two examples of this are this year's instate recruiting where we've lost most of the top ND recruits to the Bison and also the fact that we haven't gotten a player out of SD (once a hotbed for future Sioux football players) in a number of years. If we aren't getting the talent we once were getting and soon we're struggling to put together winning seasons at the D-II level attendance will drop far more than it will during a D-I exploratory period.

I fully agree with your assessment. However, it should be noted that, due to SU's move up, they are not recruiting some ND and NW MN athletes expected to be very good DII athletes who they would have recruited in the past. That means it is a little easier to get these kids to come to UND as SU is no longer after them.

This certainly does not offset your point to any large degree. Last year, we got a lot of talented kids SU wanted. This certainly doesn't appear to be the case this year. The FB coaching staff is very frustrated by this. This is one reason that the DI issue is on the front burner. Recruits (and our coaches) don't know whether we will be playing DI FB or not in the next few years. SU (and I don't blame them) is obviously now using the potential probationary period to their advantage. Kids they are recruiting today will be able to play in post-season action in DIA - our recruits would not!