UND's DI review committee

[star2city]

So there are UND fans out there that say "hockey is the best, who cares about the rest" that would view the move to DI as taking resources away from hockey and would thus fight the move?

Informed hockey fans recognize that one day, it may be in the hockey program's best interest for the entire department to be DI. (as in steps needed to position itself, in the eventuality of a Big Ten Hockey conference )

[The Walrus]

I'm confused. UNH, Maine, etc appear to be able to support hockey, field competitive football, basketball, and other sports (including baseball, seen them in the CWS a couple of times). So what, if anything do these schools have that UND is missing?

Other schools, Presbyterian College, and Campbell University are moving up and with football. I live down by Fl Gulf Coast Univ. We NEVER see this athletic program reported even here. Why is a strong, hi attendance, good funding university even considering that remaining D-II is the place to stay?

Time to MOVE forward is now! Can deal with the name change, or sue NCAA, address the transition issues. If Big Sky aren't available during transition, join the United _____ Conferences so have games/Matches, and return to playing your peer schools. The heart of NCC that was champions was four schools, UNI, UND, NDSU & SDSU. Three of these are D-1.

Both UNH and U of Maine are supported by bigger metro areas than Grand Forks...Maine maybe 4X Larger, UNH in Manchester is 2X bigger... More people , More Money, More Support...Fargo will make it eventually, they are at least 3X bigger than Grand Forks....

[MplsBison]

Boston is also only an hour and a half away from Durham.

I think the state of North Dakota nees to step up and get more money to NDSU and UND and less money to the rest of the NDUS schools.

[bincitysioux]

I think the state of North Dakota nees to step up and get more money to NDSU and UND and less money to the rest of the NDUS schools.

ditto

[RD17]

I'm saying I want to see how others in the region are doing it.

UNH is slamming students with six times the student fees for athletics that UND is. I'm thinking that's a non-starter.

UNH and Maine both have $6+ MM in institutional funds for athletics. Find that in UND's overall budget ... please.

Excellent point. There was this study done by the Indianapolis Star about a month ago that shows the ridiculous amount of student fees and institutional support some schools are putting towards athletics. James Madison (2004 IAA champ) charges each student $1186 dollars per year in athletic fees!

[RD17]

Boston is also only an hour and a half away from Durham.

I think the state of North Dakota nees to step up and get more money to NDSU and UND and less money to the rest of the NDUS schools.

I agree wholeheartedly. It is just silly to keep maintaining institutions like MaSU and VCSU at the expense of shortchanging the colleges that actually have some viability.

[MplsBison]

Wow, I had no idea.

I can see UND's perspective now.

Still, the money will have to come from somewhere.

Will be 100% private?

[The Sicatoka]

Wow, I had no idea.

I can see UND's perspective now.

Can you now also see why UND would be interested in seeing (for ideas) how others (regionally) are running their budgets?

Buning went to New Hampshire with the mens hockey team last fall. He came back seeing UNH does it via student fees and institutional revenues (spelled: legislature).

[MplsBison]

Certainly.

[82SiouxGuy]

I agree wholeheartedly. It is just silly to keep maintaining institutions like MaSU and VCSU at the expense of shortchanging the colleges that actually have some viability.

The problem is that these institutions are written in the state constitution and it would be very difficult to change the constitution to remove them.

[RD17]

The problem is that these institutions are written in the state constitution and it would be very difficult to change the constitution to remove them.

Yep, I know. Mayville would probably have been gone 10-15 years ago if not for the constitution including them.

[USA Hockey]

Can you now also see why UND would be interested in seeing (for ideas) how others (regionally) are running their budgets?

Buning went to New Hampshire with the mens hockey team last fall. He came back seeing UNH does it via student fees and institutional revenues (spelled: legislature).

I've said all along that UNH would be a great model institution for UND. This school has similar enrollment, a major DI hockey program, a good I-AA football team, and mid major in everything else. Their facilities aren't much better than ours. Buning was smart if he did in fact use that as a model institution for a possible DI move.

[PCM]

Buning was smart if he did in fact use that as a model institution for a possible DI move.

UNH also socks it to their students with athletic fees and, despite that, they're still strapped for cash. I'm not convinced that UND should want to be like them.

[RD17]

I've said all along that UNH would be a great model institution for UND. This school has similar enrollment, a major DI hockey program, a good I-AA football team, and mid major in everything else. Their facilities aren't much better than ours. Buning was smart if he did in fact use that as a model institution for a possible DI move.

To expand on what PCM said, UNH gets $6.9 million of its athletic budget (nearly $500 per student per year) from student fees. Another $6.5 million comes in the form of direct institutional support. UNH is not a school UND wants to model as far as financing Division I.

[bincitysioux]

How much of UND's student fees are for athletics?

[RD17]

How much of UND's student fees are for athletics?

According to this link (September 2004 IAC meeting minutes), UND gets about $800,000 from student fees.

I wonder if the students would go for a 850% increase so UND can match UNH?

[bincitysioux]

According to this link (September 2004 IAC meeting minutes), UND gets about $800,000 from student fees.

I wonder if the students would go for a 850% increase so UND can match UNH?

So if that is based on ~11,000 full-time undergrads, thats around $70-75. That's peanuts. I say double it at the very least. Better yet, triple it.

[USA Hockey]

According to this link (September 2004 IAC meeting minutes), UND gets about $800,000 from student fees.

I wonder if the students would go for a 850% increase so UND can match UNH?

So what makes it so different with UNH students paying those fees? It's a public institution, it has about the same enrollment that UND does, why wouldn't our students be willing to give out some more money?

[rabidrabbit]

So what makes it so different with UNH students paying those fees? It's a public institution, it has about the same enrollment that UND does, why wouldn't our students be willing to give out some more money?

This is a tough decision that the SIOUX face! Best luck in making it.

It appears that if you stay in D-2, that you'll have plenty of NSIC and DAK10 schools to play locally. Costs (and revenues) will continue to decrease. Hockey will continue to rule and suck off larger and larger % of the athletic budget. D-1 has a lot of risks. Football conference appears to be either invite from Big Sky (along withthe SU's), or from the Great West (again with the SU's). Basketball, and other sports, if don't get Big Sky, then the United (pick your sport) conferences will provide a home to start in. Mid-con and Big Sky remain as future homes when eligible for play-offs and schools shift in and out. Who knows, maybe a D-1 NCC would be reformed in 2015 when all the schools that would ever move up have moved up.

[aff]

So what makes it so different with UNH students paying those fees? It's a public institution, it has about the same enrollment that UND does, why wouldn't our students be willing to give out some more money?

Yeah, thats an awesome attitude. Just bill it to the students. There's an endless supply of money. They can just take out some more loans. Maybe you should subtract money from the teachers salaries too. I mean what was UND created for? "Education"? Yeah, we all know thats bull. Clearly the students at the school exist only to attend Fighting Sioux athletic events, and pay athletic fees. I've got an idea USA hockey, what don't you send a letter out demanding that all alumni at your school increase their donations 850%. Or at the very least double or triple the amount. Oh, I know though, they already give a large amount of money from their careers. The students, who are already strapped to fund going to college, can afford to pay more right?

I'm pretty sure that a lot of students would have a huge problem with increasing their tuition, just so the alumni at UND can keep up in their ego war with NDSU. I don't know what you've done for a career USA hockey, but you need to remember that UND educates teachers, and several other disciplines that don't start out making $100,000 per year, or even $30,000. If you increase your tuition to $850, that will be another $2250 in loans, plus the interest you need to pay. For someone that starts out making $18,000 a year, that IS a lot of money. But go ahead, increase that tuition, and see how many students you lose to NDSU, or for that matter both SD schools, who have cheaper tuition. I hope you relize you'll be taking opportunities for a good life from many deserving students, so you can thump your chest.

Both NDSU and SDSU have committed to D-I without raising fees for their students. If UND is incapable of doing that too, then should they really be going D-I in the first place? This whole conversation seems ludicrous to me. UND is in the hole in D-II, and UND is having a D-I review committe to see if it can work. (Hint-Money isn't going to get any better).

[The Sicatoka]

Both NDSU and SDSU have committed to D-I without raising fees for their students.

NDSU will be raising student fees for this this fall.

[aff]

NDSU will be raising student fees for this this fall.

For what purpose? Purely athletics, or a building project of some sort?

[MplsBison]

I'll just be flat honest: you're guys aren't going to go DI without raising student fees.

Students are either going to have to buck up or you're going to have to get some major private endowments.

Let's see, a 20 million dollar budget would need a 400 million dollar endownment, correct?

[bincitysioux]

Let's see, a 20 million dollar budget would need a 400 million dollar endownment, correct?

I don't think a move to DI would require doubling the athletic budget.

[IowaBison]

NDSU will be raising student fees for this this fall.

Yep from $902 to $935 (for all fees).

UND's were $982 last for '05-'06, couldn't find them for next year.