Another discussion on the Sioux Nickname

[GrahamKracker]

Now as far as this warrior thing goes, I guess I can only "claim" to be a warrior after 18 years of active duty

I use cruise missiles and JDAMS instead of broad swords and spears and I ride in F-15s and Abrams tanks but I know who I am and where I come from like Viking Warrior does.

Your welcome.

Wow, you've done alot in 18 year, from the looks of it, you were in the Navy, Air Force, Army, damn, aren't you the all encompassing warrior. I've done my time too, but Uncle Sam couldn't sucker me to stay in, I have too many other things to accomplish in life.

Why does everyone insist that the name FIGHTING SIOUX is so important to them? YOU are not Sioux. Get that? The SIOUX NATION does not want you to use our name. How simple is that? Instead of bitchin about this subject, get over it, because in a couple weeks, UND will be denied....again......and sooner than later this mascot/name will change and we will move on in life.

By the way, Happy holidays. I too, have spent many holidays away from my family. For me the holidays were always the hardest times.

[GrahamKracker]

Umm NO!

Sioux were of North American decent (actually Asian and European decent, but we won't go into that), but not ALL North Americans [indians] were Sioux.

You are right, there are no "actually" Norweigians/Swedes/Fins in the Armed Forces of Norway/Sweden/Finland (We outsource that to India! What are you thinking), or on the line of the fire crews battling wild oil fires in the North Sea. The Vikings are here. (Suddenly I don't know if I am talking "real Vikings" or a purple football team I can't seperate the two, [oh the pain of my shattering self esteem])

Well, unlike most Sioux, the Vikings were bi-linguial. They spoke many many languages including French, English, Dutch, Norwegian, Finnish to name a few, based on their terriory. And those languages didn't fade away, to be only spoken by a few. Maybe that is because we didn't mind if the people learning the language were of "Pure Blood" [Too use your, Harry Potter-ism]. But just for you...

Kyss av taperen

Suddenly you are Robin Hood... Please, we all do this. It shows you are human, yes also a Sioux Warrior, which is also a noble quality and one that UND and VIKINGS shows every day, but never the less human.

My boat may have fiberglass and hold 8 people rather then 40, I too shoot a high powerful rifle instead of a bow and arrow, I still do practice with a sword (not with shield or armor though) and I too use the internet instead of "smoke signals", but I am a Viking. But more then I Viking, I am a human being and a member of the human RACE upon the planet Earth. I don't feel necessity to place myself or my culture on a pedestal. And I see honor in people "wanting to be like Mike", most Vikings have "evolved" [maybe a poor choice of words, but "grown up" doesn't really fit either] enough to see this.

Now while you did state some things that are honorable about the Sioux culture, and while I thank you for your time in the Armed Service as I thank ALL Armed Service personal for their protection (Thank you Air Force One), I can't take your words for much, they do not mask your hate, low self-image or xenophobia.

V

[dagies]

Why does everyone insist that the name FIGHTING SIOUX is so important to them? YOU are not Sioux. Get that? The SIOUX NATION does not want you to use our name. How simple is that? Instead of bitchin about this subject, get over it, because in a couple weeks, UND will be denied....again......and sooner than later this mascot/name will change and we will move on in life.

By the way, Happy holidays. I too, have spent many holidays away from my family. For me the holidays were always the hardest times.

I don't have to be Sioux to identify with the Fighting Sioux sports teams. They are the teams I rooted for, and still do. In that sense I have a connection to the nickname. None of us are ignorant enough to think we're cheering for the "real" Sioux. I would have the same question for you. Why do you hear cheers at a sporting event and think anyone is addressing you directly?

Oh, and the polls show that the Sioux nation isn't all on your side of the fence like you would like to have us believe.

[GrahamKracker]

You all laugh, but my people are much more than just fighters. And look at the stereotypes we battle.

(Did I get the GK sob-story tone right? Now someone hand me a tissue. I'm getting weapy again from the thought of that horrible commerical. )

A$$hole....plain and simple. I come here to give my points, but instead, you all just bitch about me and nit-pick every little thing I say or do. You are one of those that loves to "hide" behind siouxsports, Sica, and you know, you are also one that gives me the energy to do what I do to get this name changed. So for that I say THANK YOU. A$$holes like you make me want to see this thing through. Pilamaya.

As for the commercial, you white people go ahead and make a fool of yourselves and other white people. That's fine by me. So keep hiding in siouxsports.

[GrahamKracker]

[GrahamKracker]

[MafiaMan]

As for the commercial, you white people go ahead and make a fool of yourselves and other white people. That's fine by me. So keep hiding in siouxsports.

Isnt't that true about any commercial, GK? Show me a television commercial that makes fun of African-Americans? Can't find one. How about Native Americans? Nope. Wouldn't want to offend anyone. So instead, we poke fun at the dumb, slow white guy. We're all little Hitlers anyways, right? We deserve to be made fun of. And if you don't believe me, just go ask a leprauchan, because, after all, they're the true representation of the Irish people.

[crosby_87]

[GrahamKracker]

I don't have to be Sioux to identify with the Fighting Sioux sports teams. They are the teams I rooted for, and still do. In that sense I have a connection to the nickname. None of us are ignorant enough to think we're cheering for the "real" Sioux. I would have the same question for you. Why do you hear cheers at a sporting event and think anyone is addressing you directly?

Oh, and the polls show that the Sioux nation isn't all on your side of the fence like you would like to have us believe.

polls. Have you taken a Marketing class? Do you know anything about polls? How they are conducted, where/when/who? Did you also know that many people on reservations don't even have home phones? We could also say the same for the war we are in right now, and even the president. If you'd like, I can fax you copies of all of the resolutions passed by the Sioux Tribes against UND's use of the name. If you'd like.

[GrahamKracker]

[johnsowe]

Why is it that the state of North Dakota can have a Native American logo but the University of North Dakota can not use the logo. Would people feel better that we changed the name to the Fighting Dakota's. Dakota is a tribe will people protest it. The Sioux is the offical nickname of the state. This debate is a waste of time and this issue is not that important, only a few people think that the name is racist. There are alot more important issue and yes if people want to use me for a mascot that would be fine. That is the main arguement of the na sayer's.

[HockeyMom]

A$$hole....plain and simple.

A$$holes like you make me want to see this thing through.

You're a classy guy. You should be proud of yourself. You're doing SO much for Native Americans by calling people names.

[Air Force One]

Wow, you've done alot in 18 year, from the looks of it, you were in the Navy, Air Force, Army, damn, aren't you the all encompassing warrior. I've done my time too, but Uncle Sam couldn't sucker me to stay in, I have too many other things to accomplish in life.

Why does everyone insist that the name FIGHTING SIOUX is so important to them? YOU are not Sioux. Get that? The SIOUX NATION does not want you to use our name. How simple is that? Instead of bitchin about this subject, get over it, because in a couple weeks, UND will be denied....again......and sooner than later this mascot/name will change and we will move on in life.

By the way, Happy holidays. I too, have spent many holidays away from my family. For me the holidays were always the hardest times.

Thank you for the holiday wishes and Happy Holidays to you and yours too. It hasn't really hit me yet that the holiday season is here, everyday seems the same.

All my time has been in the Air Force, the Abrams reference was my passion getting ahead of my thinking and both the Air Force and Navy use JDAMS and cruise missles. You were in the Army, I can understand your feelings, it's a whole different quality of life in the Air Force, I enjoy it, I've done well by it.

My reply was not so much about the nickname issue as is was me responding to a percieved personal attack in the context of the Sioux vs Viking comparison and how I could not "claim" to be a Viking warrior. But being of Scandanavian heritage I identify with that, that is how I was raised, that is what I read. I just felt you were being too hypocritical since you come on here to rail on us how we don't know you, we don't know your feelings, we don't know how the nickname affects you, we're not Sioux. Fine, your not Viking! Don't tell us how to or not to feel about anything. I think it's pretty darn cool that 800-1,000 years after their hey day, the Norse Warrior is still known, revered, and respected.

I too have been a student of UND and the nickname was an issue back then too, but then the only people that were speaking out against the name were caucasian and the Native Americans that would speak were in favor of the nickname. When I would be out and about around campus or the town, everybody seemed so wrapped up in their own issues, I barely saw interaction between anybody much less discrimiatory actions toward a minority. I'm not saying the environment you describe doesn't exsist, I'm saying make me understand with hard evidence, not generalities and 30 year old storys of t-shirts and cartoonish characatures. Today, this week, this month, what has happened this year that has made the evironment on and around UND hostile or abusive? Explain how the logo is hostile and abusive to you, to me it is an image of proud warrior respresenting his people at the height of their glory. Even with all that, I think there is an oppurtunity the Sioux Nation is missing out on here that would be win/win for UND and the Native American. But that's just a white guy talking.

Now Mako, first, go back and re-read my orginal post or look at my member information, that's southWEST Asia, and I'm in the Air Force, hence the screen name, but I know the patch and the units you are refering to. Second, I hope you are getting the help you need, so much anger.

[Sioux-cia]

One person

You are one person who does know your language. Good for you. But I bet the rest of Grand Forks does not know squat about where their blood comes from.

You show only arrogance and ignorance when you assume your the only person who speaks his native language or knows their ancestry. I'm sure your Lakota ancestors would turn their backs on someone such as you.

[Sioux-cia]

I've done my time too, but Uncle Sam couldn't sucker me to stay in, I have too many other things to accomplish in life.

Serving in the military is an honorable profession. I can understand why you got out.

[Sioux-cia]

A$$hole....plain and simple. I come here to give my points, but instead, you all just bitch about me and nit-pick every little thing I say or do. A$$holes like you make me want to see this thing through.

No one on this board has used profanity when responding to you. You only show your true character with responses like this. Is this really how a Lakota Soux lives the Lakota way? Sad.

[Sioux-cia]

But for your information C.I.A., Native Americans have served and still continue to serve in the military with a higher percentage overall than ANY other race/heritage/culture. Hecetu.

Wrong again.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalS...fm&PageID=85079

U.S. Military Recruits by Race

American Indian/Alaska Native 0.78% of the population and 1.82% recruit percentage

White 77.44% of the population and 75.79% recruit percentage

Black 11.33% of the population and 14.99% recruit percentage

Hispanic 12.11% of the population and 11.50% recruit percentage

Only Asians and Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders had lower recruit percentages than American Indians out of nine represented races and two 'declined to respond.

[Sioux-cia]

Learn what honor means to the Dakota/Lakota/Nakota.

Your posts clearly show that you should go back to your elders and learn about Lakota honor. What you display on this board is not what an honorable Lakota would want to be associated with.

[The Sicatoka]

GrahamKracker:

You are worried about "stereotyping" of races. Yet, you won't accept that the Vandals are being stereotyped in television commercials. Get consistent or your foundation for argument is faulty.

I'm sorry you are upset that the basis of your argument (that only American Indians face stereotypes) is damaged by a simple television commercial, but that still no reason to come with an ad hominem attack.

PS - The Vandals are the Germans. They've been persecuted in the US also. Remember the interment camps of WWII. The Japanese were sent to camps in California; the Germans were sent to interment camps in New Jersey. We've all faced tough times. We all always will.

[Bacardio]

lol. If you learned you history from history books, then you ARE misinformed. History calls Little Bighorn a massacre (yet we the Sioux were on the defense, they were there to kill our women and children, not just the warriors), they also call Wounded Knee a military campaign (lets see, take all of the weapons from the Lakota, then shoot them all including infants, yeah, that's something to be proud of).

If learning Sioux Culture is learned in our school systems or a video they show before each game, then you really need to find better sources. Hecetu.

When I read your posts GK, I realize Einstien was right, that there are no bounds to stupidity. [bTW, Einstien was this really smart white guy, I thought I would explain that to you since most of your knowledge of the white people comes from history books]

Most, but not all, of what I have learned about YOUR culture comes from Sioux tribe members. You see I grow up in Aberdeen SD. And with the Center of BIA and it proximity to numerous reservations we learned the history usually from members of the tribal councils. Now I can not tell you if they were "pure bloods", since those are the only ones who can teach about the Sioux tribe. But they did have a stronger grasp of reality then you do.

As for your examples above, you picked a couple of doozies. While I won't disagree with your assessment of Wounded Knee, that whole thing was a cluster-fu** and something that no one should be proud of, even if you consider that time and place it happened. Reminds me too much of the Baton(sp?) Death March of WWII.

But your Little Bighorn example has the coloring of a Hollywood movie, but that is to expect from you, since you believe only what you want and not what your elders state. But Little Bighorn was a massarce in a sense , (not on the same level as Wounded Knee), but that one side of the battlefield was completely destroyed. This battle is still being taught in military classes as what to do in battle and what not to do in battle. Custer attacked without knowing the situation (what not to do), and the Sioux tribes beautiful use of terrian numbers, and tactics. And according to Lakota Chief Red Horse, the women and children were taken prisoner until freed by some very pissed off warriors, not killed.

While I will not dispute the fact that history is colored by the ones that write the books, it is colored on BOTH sides. As many wise men have stated, truth lies between the two sides.

There is no black and white in history only shades of grey While atrocities happened on both sides of the fence, they have one thing in common, they are history. One should not live in the past, but should learn from its mistakes so as not too make them again.

Kyss av taperen

[star2city]

Wrong again.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalS...fm&PageID=85079

U.S. Military Recruits by Race

American Indian/Alaska Native 0.78% of the population and 1.82% recruit percentage

White 77.44% of the population and 75.79% recruit percentage

Black 11.33% of the population and 14.99% recruit percentage

Hispanic 12.11% of the population and 11.50% recruit percentage

Only Asians and Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders had lower recruit percentages than American Indians out of nine represented races and two 'declined to respond.

GK is correct if percentages are used:

An American Indian is 133% more likely to be a military recruit than the average person,

a black person is 32% more likely to be a military recruit,

a white person is 2% less likely,

and a Hispanic person is 5% less likely.

But IMO, this data should be used to defend the Fighting Sioux nickname: Siouxan people have an honorable and heroic warrior tradition that continues to this day.

[Sioux-cia]

GK is correct if percentages are used:

An American Indian is 133% more likely to be a military recruit than the average person,

a black person is 32% more likely to be a military recruit,

a white person is 2% less likely,

and a Hispanic person is 5% less likely.

But IMO, this data should be used to defend the Fighting Sioux nickname: Siouxan people have an honorable and heroic warrior tradition that continues to this day.

Geeze, math is not my forte' and this only proves it. Thanks for the correction. I obviously was looking at the percentages a$$ backwards.

[Air Force One]

Geeze, math is not my forte' and this only proves it. Thanks for the correction. I obviously was looking at the percentages a$$ backwards.

It's that whole "per capita" thing.

[GrahamKracker]

GrahamKracker:

You are worried about "stereotyping" of races. Yet, you won't accept that the Vandals are being stereotyped in television commercials. Get consistent or your foundation for argument is faulty.

I'm sorry you are upset that the basis of your argument (that only American Indians face stereotypes) is damaged by a simple television commercial, but that still no reason to come with an ad hominem attack.

PS - The Vandals are the Germans. They've been persecuted in the US also. Remember the interment camps of WWII. The Japanese were sent to camps in California; the Germans were sent to interment camps in New Jersey. We've all faced tough times. We all always will.

If we're all on the same boat, why don't we have a team named the Fighting Germans, Fighting Nazis, Fighting Japs, etc, etc? Because if we did, those people would get pretty pissed, too. As for the commercial, well, I could care less about the commercial, if it does affect you, I suggest you write to Capital one.

[GrahamKracker]

It's that whole "per capita" thing.

American Indians have served in all our nation's wars despite the fact that they were not granted citizenship until 1924. 12,000 Native Americans served our country heroically in WWI, 44,000 (of a total population of 350,000 First Americans at the time) served in WW II, and 42,000 (over 90% of which were volunteers) served in Vietnam. Native Americans have the highest record of service per capita of all the ethnic groups in America. Perhaps, the best reason for these astonishing statistics was explained in a statement made by Raymond Nahai ,a Native WW II veteran when he said, "Many have asked why we fight the white man's war. Our answer is that we are proud to be Americans, and we are proud to be American Indians. The American Indian always stands ready when his country needs him." Another reason that Native Americans seem always to come to the assistance of this country in times of need goes back to time honored traits held in esteem by all Native American societies. These are Strength, Honor, Pride in the people, Devotion, Wisdom, and Spiritual Strength. These are the traits which made them feared opponents in the battle against "Manifest Destiny", and it is what makes them courageous warriors today.

Go ahead and pick apart my words. I know that these are acts of desperation on your part. "the name is going to change and I can't do a damn thing about it, so I guess I'll just pick apart everything GK has to say, just to try to get under his skin".

I could care less what you think. The bottom line (which you choose to ignore) is the fact that the SIOUX Nation that you attempt to honor does not want you to use any reference to the SIOUX. How hard is that to understand? No one talks about that, unless you talk "polls", or a friend of yours who know a person who knows a native. Yeah, those are all skewed, I can find a friend of a white friend who thinks the name should be changed, too, so it works both ways. But the facts are the facts, and those facts are that we don't want UND to use the "sioux", or any logos depicting natives. Plain and simple.

As for you C.I.A, your on ignore, I could care less what you say. But I would like to see you NOT SELLING any items for profit on here. I was told not to, I don't see how you can.....oh wait, I forgot, I'm not a fan of FS sports so I don't get special treatment.