An Abstract theory on the ongoing discussion.

[engelbunny]

Racist.

Is there a term that creates more righteous indignation? I think not. It is always the supposed sufferer of the alleged racism that so cavalierly tosses the word about. Yet, despite all of the alleged abuse and injustice, there seems to be a certain smugness and satisfaction in being able to play the aggrieved party.

Certainly, there have been injustices heaped upon different peoples. That has always been the case throughout history when civilizations clash. The more technologically advanced civilization always came out on top, regardless of race. That has been human nature since the dawn of man. There is nothing any of us can do about it. It happened here in the United States, but it is not happening now, and none of us, or our parents, or probably even our grandparents had anything to do with it. So that argument is pointless.

Now, I am not suggesting that there are not individuals today who are true bigots, because I will allow that there are. But it is my belief that people like this are rare in the United States, and becoming more rare all the time. I am also not suggesting that there are not clear cut instances of racial injustices even today, because there are. But I believe that these instances are addressed in a serious and thoughtful manner, by serious and thoughtful people. What seems to be the biggest modus operandi in this country, is the rush to label every problem suffered by any minority as a de facto result of racism on the part of the majority. It is always the claim. The majority is getting sick of the label. The majority is not racist.

I do believe, however, that there is a deep resentment between the majority and the minority in this country. I will even admit that I harbor this resentment. But it has nothing to do with race. It has also nothing to do with color, sex, sexual orientation, or religion. It has to do with who makes up the majority and who makes up the minority. So who are they? They are who I will label the worker class and the whiner class.

If a person belongs to the worker class, the majority, then generally, the rest of the majority has respect for them. Oh, they may have differences of opinion, but they are able to settle those differences in a civilized and respectful manner. Many times they must resolve to agree to disagree, but most always the respect is maintained. The other class is the do nothing whiner. The interclass relationship is highly strained because there is no mutual respect. (There is also some overlap between the classes, as some people who are good hard working individuals, are also tragically entrenched whiners. In addition, I am completely excluding the elitist class from this discussion because that requires an entirely more lengthy commentary.)

Those of us who get up everyday and go to work to support our families, perform volunteer service for our communities, and do what we can to be good citizens for our great country, have no respect for those who do not. It is that simple. (And notice I said those who do not, not those who cannot). And so we are unwilling to really listen to their constant whining with any degree of sympathy. Our immediate reaction is, why don

[Sioux-cia]

Racist.

Is there a term that creates more righteous indignation?  I think not.  It is always the supposed sufferer of the alleged racism that so cavalierly tosses the word about.  Yet, despite all of the alleged abuse and injustice, there seems to be a certain smugness and satisfaction in being able to play the aggrieved party. 

Certainly, there have been injustices heaped upon different peoples.  That has always been the case throughout history when civilizations clash.  The more technologically advanced civilization always came out on top, regardless of race.  That has been human nature since the dawn of man.  There is nothing any of us can do about it.  It happened here in the United States, but it is not happening now, and none of us, or our parents, or probably even our grandparents had anything to do with it.  So that argument is pointless. 

Now, I am not suggesting that there are not individuals today who are true bigots, because I will allow that there are.  But it is my belief that people like this are rare in the United States, and becoming more rare all the time.  I am also not suggesting that there are not clear cut instances of racial injustices even today,  because there are.  But I believe that these instances are addressed in a serious and thoughtful manner, by serious and thoughtful people.  What seems to be the biggest modus operandi in this country, is the rush to label every problem suffered by any minority as a de facto result of racism on the part of the majority.  It is always the claim.  The majority is getting sick of the label.  The majority is not racist.

I do believe, however, that there is a deep resentment between the majority and the minority in this country.  I will even admit that I harbor this resentment.  But it has nothing to do with race.  It has also nothing to do with color, sex, sexual orientation, or religion.  It has to do with who makes up the majority and who makes up the minority.  So who are they?  They are who I will label the worker class and the whiner class. 

If a person belongs to the worker class, the majority, then generally, the rest of the majority has respect for them.  Oh, they may have differences of opinion, but they are able to settle those differences in a civilized and respectful manner.  Many times they must resolve to agree to disagree, but most always the respect is maintained.  The other class is the do nothing whiner.  The interclass relationship is highly strained because there is no mutual respect.  (There is also some overlap between the classes, as some people who are good hard working individuals, are also tragically entrenched whiners. In addition, I am completely excluding the elitist class from this discussion because that requires an entirely more lengthy commentary.)

Those of us who get up everyday and go to work to support our families, perform volunteer service for our communities, and do what we can to be good citizens for our great country, have no respect for those who do not.  It is that simple.  (And notice I said those who do not, not those who cannot).  And so we are unwilling to really listen to their constant whining with any degree of sympathy.  Our immediate reaction is, why don

[cheppi]

[dagies]

Good job, engelbunny.

[redwing77]

This is precisely it.

Thanks Engelbunny

[PCM]

Over time, the minority of the whiner will become smaller and smaller, the true bigots will all die off, and the hate monger will be out of business.  Then all of the petty crap that so wastes our time and resources will be dispensed with and real problems can get solved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lawkota]

Racist.

Is there a term that creates more righteous indignation?  I think not.  It is always the supposed sufferer of the alleged racism that so cavalierly tosses the word about. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent post!

I wonder if the term "racist" has the same power it had 5, 10, 20 years ago? As you stated, it is so commonplace to use that term that it seems to be losing its sting. At least it is for me. We someone cries racism, my first reaction is one of skepticism and a little distrust of the accuser. The word used to have power - sent a red flag up immediately; Now?......hmmmphh, "someone's whining.". How often are true cases of injustice not taken seriously at first glance because of it?

[KnowtheFacts]

Thank you for so eloquently stating how many of us feel about society today.  This mentality was very present after the hurricanes.  For many days people sat and waited for help while complaining about the goverment.  Where is the self reliance?

   

My parents often asked me during those days why aren't people walking out of the flooded areas?  Well, for many they weren't physically capable, but I feel many others have become so reliant upon others (ie. goverment) they don't have the know how to think and try to achieve for themselves.  If you live your life thinking someone else, the government, is going to take care of your every need then you will be greatly disappointed.

On an aside regarding respect:  I have relatives who are american citizens leaching off of society by staying on welfare and the associated benefits.  On the other end of the spectrum, I have seen many illegal aliens working their butts off to make a living for their family and themselves, and not being a drain on society.  You can easily imagine who I have more respect for.  This is not a matter of race but of how one acts in gaining respect.  It must be earned not simply given.  Thank you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you are ignorant. Those people that went to the Superdome for refuge wereNOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE. And as for the people who were trying to fend for themselves... they were called looters by the press. What did you expect them to do for food? plant a garden? Media and most of the rest of the US was so concerned about the economic impact of Katrina, they forgot about the human beings. Those stores will recover. I dont think Walmart expected to save the fruits and veggies after evacuating, but when people went in to take them for survival they were only thought of as criminals and thieves. You dont know that some of those people in N.O. werent working their butts off for minimum wage to feed their families. But if someone says, Hey if you arent going to get out of the city in time, go the superdome, we'll take care of you. Why not take the offer? Gov't failed what they said they would do. I was pretty surprised to find out the total lack of organization at the Superdome considering before the hurricane hit they took so much time to search everyone for weapons. People also stayed to protect their homes and businesses. Tell you what, if they were only living off of the government dole, I dont think they would be real concerned about a home they didnt own.

anyway, dont get me started. You must be a total atheist to not give a rip about the poor.

Most of us go to school on government assistance (called Stafford loans and Pell grants for those too far removed from college), except for a small few whose parents planned ahead. I dont know alot of people working their butts off to take care of their family that can afford to put away 30,000 or 100,000 for their kids' education. I dont think it is a total drain on society to provide financial assistance to people who will become future taxpayers.

Gov't assistance in this state also includes paying for child care so parents can go to work. Is that a problem for you? Maybe the little babies and children should stay home and take care of themselves? Or maybe one parent should stay home and raise their children and maybe stoop so low as to get financial help from welfare because their job a Mickey D's doesnt pay enough to justify leaving their kids with a stranger all day?

get a life and learn about what you are talking about before you open your trap again.

[Northcountry]

[DamStrait]

get a life and learn about what you are talking about before you open your trap again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do as I say, not as I do, eh? That's the problem with you name-changers: You really need to learn to practice what you preach.

[engelbunny]

Well you are ignorant.  Those people that went to the Superdome for refuge wereNOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE.  And as for the people who were trying to fend for themselves... they were called looters by the press.  What did you expect them to do for food?  plant a garden?  Media and most of the rest of the US was so concerned about the economic impact of Katrina, they forgot about the human beings.  Those stores will recover.  I dont think Walmart expected to save the fruits and veggies after evacuating, but when people went in to take them for survival they were only thought of as criminals and thieves.    You dont know that some of those people in N.O. werent working their butts off for minimum wage to feed their families. But if someone says, Hey if you arent going to get out of the city in time, go the superdome, we'll take care of you.  Why not take the offer?  Gov't failed what they said they would do.  I was pretty surprised to find out the total lack of organization at the Superdome considering before the hurricane hit they took so much time to search everyone for weapons.  People also stayed to protect their homes and businesses.  Tell you what, if they were only living off of the government dole, I dont think they would be real concerned about a home they didnt own.

anyway, dont get me started.  You must be a total atheist to not give a rip about the poor.

Most of us go to school on government assistance (called Stafford loans and Pell grants for those too far removed from college), except for a small few whose parents planned ahead.  I dont know alot of people working their butts off to take care of their family that can afford to put away 30,000 or 100,000 for their kids' education.  I dont think it is a total drain on society to provide financial assistance to people who will become future taxpayers.

Gov't assistance in this state also includes paying for child care so parents can go to work.  Is that a problem for you?  Maybe the little babies and children should stay home and take care of themselves?  Or maybe one parent should stay home and raise their children and maybe stoop so low as to get financial help from welfare because their job a Mickey D's doesnt pay enough to justify leaving their kids with a stranger all day? 

get a life and learn about what you are talking about before you open your trap again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, the media was too busy spewing reports of sensationalistic claims of murders, rapes, and canablism - THAT NEVER HAPPENED, to worry about the economic impact of the hurricane. Politics first, especially if it is good, juicy, race baiting politics.

Secondly, Americans are more than happy to provide assistance to those who need short-term help to get an education, have good child care, medical needs, etc, as they work to better themselves. Americans also feel a duty to provide long-term assistance, even life-long, to those who are absolutely incapable, because of significant physical or mental handicaps, of caring for themselves. That is what is great about America.

What the average American is getting quite sick of, is being told they are not doing enough to take care of the people who are able, but not willing, to take care of themselves. We see the whiner, in yet another situation that is terrible, but avoidable, and we feel some pity. We open our hearts and wallets once again, because we are Americans. But we see and hear the whiner apologist and we get disgusted and pissed.

A great number of those people were still there precisely because they are so used to being told, as you put it, "we'll take care of you." That is what they expect, someone will take care of them. That is precisely the point you are missing. They have been continually failed by those who are constantly telling them, "we'll take care of you." And when they are not taken care of, those same blowhards that make the promises in the first place are the very people who shift the blame to someone else. The cycle of dependency is a spiral to despair.

And since when did armfuls of shoes, TV's, DVD players, etc, etc, become such necessary staples of subsistence, that a natural disaster gives anyone the right to go and take them.

[redwing77]

[cheppi]

Well you are ignorant. Those people that went to the Superdome for refuge wereNOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE. And as for the people who were trying to fend for themselves... they were called looters by the press. What did you expect them to do for food? plant a garden? Media and most of the rest of the US was so concerned about the economic impact of Katrina, they forgot about the human beings. Those stores will recover. I dont think Walmart expected to save the fruits and veggies after evacuating, but when people went in to take them for survival they were only thought of as criminals and thieves. You dont know that some of those people in N.O. werent working their butts off for minimum wage to feed their families. But if someone says, Hey if you arent going to get out of the city in time, go the superdome, we'll take care of you. Why not take the offer? Gov't failed what they said they would do. I was pretty surprised to find out the total lack of organization at the Superdome considering before the hurricane hit they took so much time to search everyone for weapons. People also stayed to protect their homes and businesses. Tell you what, if they were only living off of the government dole, I dont think they would be real concerned about a home they didnt own.

anyway, dont get me started. You must be a total atheist to not give a rip about the poor.

Most of us go to school on government assistance (called Stafford loans and Pell grants for those too far removed from college), except for a small few whose parents planned ahead. I dont know alot of people working their butts off to take care of their family that can afford to put away 30,000 or 100,000 for their kids' education. I dont think it is a total drain on society to provide financial assistance to people who will become future taxpayers.

Gov't assistance in this state also includes paying for child care so parents can go to work. Is that a problem for you? Maybe the little babies and children should stay home and take care of themselves? Or maybe one parent should stay home and raise their children and maybe stoop so low as to get financial help from welfare because their job a Mickey D's doesnt pay enough to justify leaving their kids with a stranger all day?

get a life and learn about what you are talking about before you open your trap again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate to even reply to this idiotic rant, but thanks for putting words into my mouth and painting a (unrealistic) picture of me. That being exactly what I am not. My mom will be bummed that all those years of attending church has turned me into an atheist. So much for no personal attacks and trying to have an open discussion. If your response is what you truely got out of my post you are more disillusioned than I had previously acknowledged.

ps. I can tell you one thing, if I had been sitting at the convention center for a couple days and help wasn't coming I sure as hell wouldn't of just sat there waiting for someone to come and save me. Secondly, you being up looting from nowhere. Did I say taking food to survive should be condemned, I think not. However, those that were stealing TV, jewelry, etc.. were doing exactly that stealing.

[KnowtheFacts]

[Sioux-cia]

I honestly don't mean what I am about to say to be misconstructed as being mean and spiteful. But I have, as we all have, been reading what KnowFacts and GrahamKracker have been posting in the Sioux Name threads. What I have noticed is the deterioration of their comments. They came on initially stating their case and there have been responses opposing their views. Once it appeared that that Spirit Lake was not going to support us, their posts got more venomous. Then the NC$$ denied UND's appeal, the postings became nastier but seemed to be coming from way out in left field. They started personal attacks, that as a recipient of many, don't make sense. Taking facts out of context and delivering entire diatribes of nonsense are what they have been doing to incite us into responding to their nonsense.

Instead of reveling in what would seem to be victories for their cause, they're sinking lower and lower in their comments against us who support the name. Here's where somebody is going to think I'm being mean but given their recent posts, I really am concerned for their mental health. Maybe we should back off?

[cheppi]

still didnt read the link. There were armed guards that were not allowing those people to walk out from the superdome. something the media didnt talk about because they were so focused on the few people that were stealing the dvds...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about the others in the convention center and other multiple locations around town. Those huddling around the superdome weren't being allowed in either.

[82SiouxGuy]

I think that a lot of this argument can be summed up with a lesson many of us learned as children. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he has food for a lifetime. We have given out a lot of fish over the years and probably need to teach more people to fish. Pell Grants and student loans fit the teaching category. Long term welfare for people that make no effort to work smells like some bad fish.

KTF, I won't dispute the story because I wasn't there. I am sure that there were cases where people were turned back. That was wrong and could have been caused by greedy people, racists or people that were afraid of losing things, many were probably somewhere in the middle. However, a lot of people did find their way out. They walked, they hitchhiked, they did what they needed to do.

[Goon]

Well you are ignorant.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Goon

[HockeyMom]

There is a HUGE difference between taking food to feed your starving family and pushing a television through waste deep flood waters on a mattress.

I also saw pictures from Reuters where people were holding entire racks of replica jerseys and ten or so boxes of Nikes. Those people should have been shot on site.

[Goon]

There is a HUGE difference between taking food to feed your starving family and pushing a television through waste deep flood waters on a mattress. 

I also saw pictures from Reuters where people were holding entire racks of replica jerseys and ten or so boxes of Nikes.  Those people should have been shot on site.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought I heard that some of New Orleans police department were also on suspension for stealing/looting somehting to be proud of.

[HockeyMom]

I thought I heard that some of New Orleans police department were also on suspension for stealing/looting somehting to be proud of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I heard that too. Too bad that it happened. Bottom line is that there are some bad people out there.

[Smoggy]

I heard that too. Too bad that it happened. Bottom line is that there are some bad people out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One reporter on MSNBC came across a Wal-Mart being looted. He asked somebody if he felt he "needed" a TV. The guy said the cops were taking, so why couldn't he? The reporter walked around and sure enough he found a couple of female cops just shopping. They had all kinds of stuff in their cart, but no food. The one cop even threatened to arrest the reporter for looting.

[Goon]

Feeding their family I suppose you could make the stretch they would sell the stuff that they stole to a pond shop so they could get some money to feed their families.

I findi it funny that Know the Facts is aligning himself with criminals and making them victims. Those people that were looting were wronged by society and they are now making it right.

[redwing77]

Feeding their family I suppose you could make the stretch they would sell the stuff that they stole to a pond shop so they could get some money to feed their families.

I findi it funny that Know the Facts is aligning himself with criminals and making them victims. Those people that were looting were wronged by society and they are now making it right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the looters weren't going to the pawn shops. They looted guns and ammo, remember. They used them to shoot at the helicopters. They called it "trying to get the attention of the helicopters so they can be saved." I call it "shooting at the hand trying to save your hide."

I'm glad we didn't have to open fire back, but I'm sorry, I don't care what it is you do down there, but if you aren't carrying food, then you are looting in a situation like that. And there is NO sympathy for looters. PERIOD.