PCM Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 An article in today's Herald makes it sound as if there's an effort under way to get the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe to reverse its support for UND's use of the Sioux name and logo. Sebastian Braun, a professor of Indian Studies at UND, said there's a chance that The Spirit Lake tribe may reverse any support of the Fighting Sioux nickname that it's issued in the past. "I'm not sure if they will do so, but they have scheduled some meetings," Braun said. "If that comes out negative, then the university will have no more tribes to take that position." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 While there may be an effort underway, I think this is just another case of a name change advocate pushing personal agenda in the Herald. It seems like any time a UND prof mentions the nickname, the Herald is right there to cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 An article in today's Herald makes it sound as if there's an effort under way to get the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe to reverse its support for UND's use of the Sioux name and logo. It's likely that they've been under tremendous pressure to change, especially since the FSU appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 It's likely that they've been under tremendous pressure to change, especially since the FSU appeal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure that you're right. That's what concerns me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I was wondering about the timing of the Grand Forks casino plans. The proposed casino in Grand Forks could be used as leverage against the Spirit Lake tribe ("oppose the Fighting Sioux nickname and we'll put your casino out of business by opening one with the Turtle Mountain tribe closer to your customers.") OTOH, if the Spirit Lake tribe thinks that the casino in GF is going ahead no matter what, they might be a little ticked off right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I was wondering about the timing of the Grand Forks casino plans. The proposed casino in Grand Forks could be used as leverage against the Spirit Lake tribe ("oppose the Fighting Sioux nickname and we'll put your casino out of business by opening one with the Turtle Mountain tribe closer to your customers.") OTOH, if the Spirit Lake tribe thinks that the casino in GF is going ahead no matter what, they might be a little ticked off right now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've been wondering the same thing for a while now... a GF casino will definitely take business from Devil's Lake. As far as all that goes, if we keep the name and can't build a casino, so be it. I don't want a casino in GF anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightonsioux Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 It almost sounds like the professor is encouraging Spirit Lake not to endorse the nickname. I know a majority of the members want the name kept, but it's going to come down to the tribal leaders. I'm sure the get plenty of flack from other tribes. I am so sick of taxpayer paid professors telling us how we should think and feel. I bet every one of them that writes a mailbag letter does it on taxpayer paid UND letterhead and taxpayer paid UND time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Regardless of any band's support, or lack thereof, I think UND is making a very good point in playing up the strengths of its programs aimed at American Indians, rather than depending on "support" that can wax or wane depending on who's in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Regardless of any band's support, or lack thereof, I think UND is making a very good point in playing up the strengths of its programs aimed at American Indians, rather than depending on "support" that can wax or wane depending on who's in charge. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On that topic, I was scouring the net for a comprehensive list of American Indian programs at UND. I found bits and pieces, but does anyone have an actual list? More for my own curiosity than anything. One of the letters from the "bridges" site lists 21 programs, but I don't think all of them are AI unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 On that topic, I was scouring the net for a comprehensive list of American Indian programs at UND. I found bits and pieces, but does anyone have an actual list? More for my own curiosity than anything. One of the letters from the "bridges" site lists 21 programs, but I don't think all of them are AI unique. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://www.UND.nodak.edu/dept/aiss/Indian%...%20Programs.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 How in the he** did I not find that?! Thanks PCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 I'm sure that you're right. That's what concerns me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure that I read in one of the articles that Kup was quoted as saying that UND had heard from Spirit Lake and they were continuing their support as long as the University continues using the name in a respectful fashion, etc. This was after the NC$$ edict was announced. I find it hard to imagine that the Spirit Lake Sioux will change their mind because people like GrahamKracker and Bellcourt refer to them as "hanging around the fort Sioux" and "hang around the plantation negro mentality" because they do not oppose UND's continued use of the name and logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 How in the he** did I not find that?! Thanks PCM. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know what we'd do without PCM. Keep up the good work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloos Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 The official I know at Spirit Lake says they have been getting a ton of pressure from a group in CA, as well as the leftist UND Profs. It sounds like it will be a very close vote. Spirit Lake still has some leaders with common sense that realize they would be hypocritical calling for UND to change their name (they are the Indians). My concern is, what will happen to the Indian programs at UND if the name is changed. The Sioux name gives the University a pro native identity not found at any other school in the region. Without the name they will lose this, and slowly lose many of the great Native programs at the school. UND has been very good to the Native communities, and in turn they have been good to UND. I hope Spirit Lake sees this and continues to support the Sioux name as they continue to support their own Indian name. Standing Rock, Rosebud and Pine Ridge and all out in left field - they represent the "we hate all white people and blame all of our problems on them" mentality that is keeping them in poverty. They were screwed by the government in the past, but they need to learn to put the past behind them. They refuse to do anything to better themselves. The gov't tosses money at them (especially Pine Ridge) and all they do is embezzle it and elect leaders they know will steal the money. Of course the gov't can never fully make good what they did to Natives, but Natives need to realize they are trying, and are no longer the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Spirit Lake still has some leaders with common sense that realize they would be hypocritical calling for UND to change their name (they are the Indians). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's good to know. It would be great if this pressure from the outside backfired, resulting in an even stronger resolution of support for UND from the Spirit Lake Sioux. We'll just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMeNow Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 I thought it was interesting this UND Professor - who I haven't heard from ever before in this debate - is apparently a 1st year Professor from SWITZERLAND I'm not kidding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I was wondering about the timing of the Grand Forks casino plans. The proposed casino in Grand Forks could be used as leverage against the Spirit Lake tribe ("oppose the Fighting Sioux nickname and we'll put your casino out of business by opening one with the Turtle Mountain tribe closer to your customers.") OTOH, if the Spirit Lake tribe thinks that the casino in GF is going ahead no matter what, they might be a little ticked off right now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good points. But how stupid is the Turtle Mountain tribe not to come out in favor of keeping the name/or at least strongly opposed, what a way to endear yourself to the GF area to get a casino. I realize that most tribes don't understand this and expect everything to be given to them without any in return. I also wonder if any of these tribes realize what the backlash will mean on the bottom line for the casinos. I think an awful lot of people will quit spending any money at these places for concerts, dining and gambling. No one ever said Indians were smart businessmen I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yepdude Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Good points. But how stupid is the Turtle Mountain tribe not to come out in favor of keeping the name/or at least strongly opposed, what a way to endear yourself to the GF area to get a casino. I realize that most tribes don't understand this and expect everything to be given to them without any in return. I also wonder if any of these tribes realize what the backlash will mean on the bottom line for the casinos. I think an awful lot of people will quit spending any money at these places for concerts, dining and gambling. No one ever said Indians were smart businessmen I guess. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I was wondering about the timing of the Grand Forks casino plans. The proposed casino in Grand Forks could be used as leverage against the Spirit Lake tribe ("oppose the Fighting Sioux nickname and we'll put your casino out of business by opening one with the Turtle Mountain tribe closer to your customers.") OTOH, if the Spirit Lake tribe thinks that the casino in GF is going ahead no matter what, they might be a little ticked off right now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This just shows how much you really know. Its the Turtle Mountain Tribe that is getting the casino here, not Spirit Lake. Before you comment, you should know what you are talking about. Its unfortunate that in this day and age, with all of the information out there, that people just don't know the truth and because they don't know they facts they make comments like yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I'm sure that I read in one of the articles that Kup was quoted as saying that UND had heard from Spirit Lake and they were continuing their support as long as the University continues using the name in a respectful fashion, etc. This was after the NC$$ edict was announced. I find it hard to imagine that the Spirit Lake Sioux will change their mind because people like GrahamKracker and Bellcourt refer to them as "hanging around the fort Sioux" and "hang around the plantation negro mentality" because they do not oppose UND's continued use of the name and logo. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 No doubt, but the nickname has nothing to do with the moronic comments. Morons aren't morons because of a sports teams name. Morons are morons because they are morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 This just shows how much you really know. Its the Turtle Mountain Tribe that is getting the casino here, not Spirit Lake. Before you comment, you should know what you are talking about. Its unfortunate that in this day and age, with all of the information out there, that people just don't know the truth and because they don't know they facts they make comments like yours. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you might want to re-read Tony's post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 you might want to re-read Tony's post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> GK should follow his own advice. It's unfortunate that in this day and age, with all the information out there that people respond to other people without reading/understanding their statements. Some folks are just too anxious to sling a little mud. November 05, 2004 New Turtle Mountain chair supports urban casino The newly elected chairman of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa supports an off-reservation casino in Grand Forks, North Dakota.http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2004/005208.asp But I don't agree with Tony's statements. The programs that UND has in place and the proposed GF casino agreement (or non-agreement), IMHO, will NOT change because UND will or will not keep the Sioux name or logo. The American Indian programs and services are not in place because of the Sioux name or logo. They are there because it's the University's mission to teach and prepare all it's students for a successful post college life. Any decision GF makes regarding the casino will be for strictly economic reasons with, hopefully, input from the citizens of GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Rico Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 GK should follow his own advice. It's unfortunate that in this day and age, with all the information out there that people respond to other people without reading/understanding their statements. Some folks are just too anxious to sling a little mud. http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2004/005208.asp But I don't agree with Tony's statements. The programs that UND has in place and the proposed GF casino agreement (or non-agreement), IMHO, will NOT change because UND will or will not keep the Sioux name or logo. The American Indian programs and services are not in place because of the Sioux name or logo. They are there because it's the University's mission to teach and prepare all it's students for a successful post college life. Any decision GF makes regarding the casino will be for strictly economic reasons with, hopefully, input from the citizens of GF. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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