Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[MplsBison]

I agree. And that seems to be the SBoHE's new direction.

But the only guy I've seen get out recently is Hanson's predecessor.

I wouldn't deny or confirm that. But if he was anti-UND, and tried to pull some strings to limit or detract from UND, he was in the wrong.

The best way forward is for NDSU and UND to both be as strong and competitive as possible.

[darell1976]

How come we haven't heard anything from the Standing Rock since what October?? Speachless during the first court trial now still speachless during the SBoHE vote and court appeal?? I think they really don't care. RHHIT won. The board will change the name effective after the ND Supreme court rules for the SBoHE and if the SR is still speachless then change the name. Does anyone think this could start an inter-state Indian war between the SL and SR. The SL did all they could voted for the name, even gone to court to buy time and what has the SR done...nothing. Hats off to the SL for all their effort and as for the SR.....sorry I'm speachless.

[MplsBison]

My main concern: There has been almost no effort by UND or the SBoHE to convey any message to alums, Sioux boosters, students and the public at large.

Sure, Faison has made statements from time to time about the importance of UND getting into the Summit, but nobody from UND has ever said something like: "Therefore, it is the official position of the University of North Dakota that the Fighting Sioux nickname be retired as soon as possible to assist with the transition to Division I."

Furthermore, neither Faison nor Kelley has ever bothered to explain what they know about the Summit's position in relation to the nickname issue. They have to know something. What has Douple told them? Is there a deadline? When? Why that date? Why not November 2010? What do they understand it to mean when Douple says the nickname issue must be "resolved"? Do all Summit members feel that way or is it just Douple talking out of his tail-feathers? It'd be nice to know some information and context.

Surely, behind the scenes, Kelley and Faison are conveying much (if not all) of this type of information to Goetz and the SBoHE. And I don't believe that Kelley and Faison would sit around waiting for the board to decide what it wants to do. For the first time, it became clear yesterday that they are pushing the board in a particular direction. It's about time that they publicly do something, anything.

But there are still many unanswered questions that people have a right to know.

State the case; make the case.

I don't see why it's so hard for you guys to accept the Summit's clear position.

There are only two possible ways to conclude this matter: 1) get the SR's support and become compliant with the NCAA agreement or 2) officially retire the nickname.

NEITHER of those are *guaranteed* to happen on Nov 2010. Not saying this would happen, but someone could file some new lawsuit or the SBoHE could decide to have a change of heart and just let UND keep using the nickname per whatever punishments the NCAA set forth.

Until one of the above two things happens, there is ZERO reason for the Summit to even consider UND's application. There is no reason to take the risk. Not when there are other schools to consider, espcially given the new DI membership rules and pending Big Ten expansion that will probably open up all of the DI conferences to re-alignment.

[The Sicatoka]

There are only two possible ways to conclude this matter: 1) get the SR's support and become compliant with the NCAA agreement or 2) officially retire the nickname.

That's going to happen come Nov 2010. (There is no way UND will allow itself to go back onto the NCAA sanction list.)

So what's the Summit's issue?

[darell1976]

That's going to happen come Nov 2010. (There is no way UND will allow itself to go back onto the NCAA sanction list.)

So what's the Summit's issue?

Who votes to accept membership is it a committe or the president or is it every Summit school??

[The Sicatoka]

Who votes to accept membership is it a committe or the president or is it every Summit school??

Normally the presidents of the individual conference member schools have the vote.

[82SiouxGuy]

Who votes to accept membership is it a committe or the president or is it every Summit school??

It is a vote of the Presidents from all member schools.

[The Sicatoka]

I don't see why it's so hard for you guys to accept the Summit's clear position.

And what exactly is that?

Tu-Uyen Tran of the GF Herald blogged that he contacted Summit League school presidents about the issue and they all said to talk to the league commissioner.

So Tran tried to contract Douple.

And Douple didn't return the Herald's calls.

So much for Douple stepping up and defining "the Summit's clear position".

Do we surely know that getting Standing Rock's approval would satisfy Douple and/or the majority of Summit members?

I've never heard Douple or anyone else say that.

What is their "clear position"?

The only thing I know for certain is that if the SBoHE changes the name before November, there is zero chance of getting SR's approval. So if the SBoHE intends to shut that particular door before it has to, it owes us an explanation as to why it's happening.

[82SiouxGuy]

How come we haven't heard anything from the Standing Rock since what October?? Speachless during the first court trial now still speachless during the SBoHE vote and court appeal?? I think they really don't care. RHHIT won. The board will change the name effective after the ND Supreme court rules for the SBoHE and if the SR is still speachless then change the name. Does anyone think this could start an inter-state Indian war between the SL and SR. The SL did all they could voted for the name, even gone to court to buy time and what has the SR done...nothing. Hats off to the SL for all their effort and as for the SR.....sorry I'm speachless.

The bulk of the reservation really doesn't care either way. They have no sense of urgency to do anything. Spirit Lake had a core group of people that were very interested and pushed the issue. Standing Rock seems to have a couple of people and they aren't as devoted to the issue. Plus they have historically had more people that were verbally opposed to the name. At the rate of action we have seen, I think they could set a date 2 years from now and Standing Rock still wouldn't get anything done.

[darell1976]

It is a vote of the Presidents from all member schools.

Then why doesn't UND apply for membership? Is Oakland, and IUPUI and SDSU going to vote no? I think since we schedule Summit teams like SDSU, NDSU, and UMKC we should be able to get in.

[darell1976]

The bulk of the reservation really doesn't care either way. They have no sense of urgency to do anything. Spirit Lake had a core group of people that were very interested and pushed the issue. Standing Rock seems to have a couple of people and they aren't as devoted to the issue. Plus they have historically had more people that were verbally opposed to the name. At the rate of action we have seen, I think they could set a date 2 years from now and Standing Rock still wouldn't get anything done.

This is why i would rather have the NCAA tell us to get permission from the closest Sioux tribe (SL) that way we wouldn't have all these trials.

[The Sicatoka]

... permission from the closest (namesake) tribe ...

That's all Florida State, Central Michigan, and Utah had to do.

[82SiouxGuy]

And what exactly is that?

Tu-Uyen Tran of the GF Herald blogged that he contacted Summit League school presidents about the issue and they all said to talk to the league commissioner.

So Tran tried to contract Douple.

And Douple didn't return the Herald's calls.

So much for Douple stepping up and defining "the Summit's clear position".

Do we surely know that getting Standing Rock's approval would satisfy Douple and/or the majority of Summit members?

I've never heard Douple or anyone else say that.

What is their "clear position"?

The only thing I know for certain is that if the SBoHE changes the name before November, there is zero chance of getting SR's approval. So if the SBoHE intends to shut that particular door before it has to, it owes us an explanation as to why it's happening.

A year ago Douple made it clear that UND had to settle the issue. And he said that it didn't matter whether the name was kept or not, the issue just had to be settled. Repeating his stance doesn't gain anything for him or the league other than further upsetting the hardcore Fighting Sioux nickname supporters. According to the quotes from Kelley, the league Presidents he has spoken with have given him the same information.

They don't release any information on the application process or how they add schools, or even when a deadline might be, so what makes you think they are going to do so for this issue. The Summit can make whatever rules they want, it's their game. They don't have to explain why they have those rules to anyone. If you don't like the rules you don't have to join the club. UND wants to join that club.

Faison and Kelley have obviously done their homework. You can either believe them or not. And they aren't going to hold a news conference to make those statements because that wouldn't gain anything for them or for the University. The publicity would probably anger the Summit and hurt the chances of getting in, plus all it would do would be to further anger the hardcore nickname supporters. They have no benefit in arguing this issue in a more public forum.

[darell1976]

That's all Florida State, Central Michigan, and Utah had to do.

Exactly. Was this 2 Sioux tribes a NCAA decision or Wayne Stenjeum's decision?

[82SiouxGuy]

Then why doesn't UND apply for membership? Is Oakland, and IUPUI and SDSU going to vote no? I think since we schedule Summit teams like SDSU, NDSU, and UMKC we should be able to get in.

Because the Summit League has publicly stated that they won't accept an application until the issue is settled. They won't hold a vote until they accept an application and research the school. Faison has stated that conference has not changed their stance on the issue. And Kelley said that he has talked to Presidents of schools in the league. They have told them that UND will probably be approved if a vote is held, but they aren't even going to consider UND until the issue is settled. UND can send as many applications to the Summit League offices as they want, but the Summit doesn't have to accept the application or hold a vote.

[82SiouxGuy]

This is why i would rather have the NCAA tell us to get permission from the closest Sioux tribe (SL) that way we wouldn't have all these trials.

That would have been nice, but the chances of that happening are just about zero. The settlement was signed by both sides that agreed to both tribes. The only possible way that this could be changed is if Spirit Lake sued and won the case. I believe that the tribe itself would have to sue to have any chance, not just the tribe members that filed the last lawsuit. And the chances of winning that case are probably still pretty slim.

[82SiouxGuy]

Exactly. Was this 2 Sioux tribes a NCAA decision or Wayne Stenjeum's decision?

That was probably a negotiated point in the settlement. We may never know why they agreed on 2 tribes. Maybe Wayne said 1 and the NCAA wanted 3 to include Wahpeton. Or maybe Wayne gave them 2 to get them to agree that UND wasn't hostile and abusive. Or it could have been a lot of other things. A negotiated settlement is just that, both sides throw a bunch of issues out and slowly narrow it down to something they can agree on.

[The Sicatoka]

... the issue just had to be settled.

What does "settled" or (I believe his precise word was) "resolved" mean?

To whose satisfaction?

The NCAA's?

Or the Summit's?

And if the Summit's, what does "settled" or "resolved" mean to them?

Douple's said some words.

Do we have definition as to what they mean or if they have any true gravitas with the Summit presidents?

Where's the formal, documented, statement of position ... from anyone.

I'll agree with the person who said they respected the NCAA for at least stepping up and putting their position out there on paper: This and this by that date or this triggers in. Hey, at least we know where the NCAA is at. It's on paper. It's not an unanswered media inquiry.

[Goon]

What's to keep the Spirit Lake tribe from Suing the NCAA?

[82SiouxGuy]

What does "settled" or (I believe his precise word was) "resolved" mean?

To whose satisfaction?

The NCAA's?

Or the Summit's?

And if the Summit's, what does "settled" or "resolved" mean to them?

Douple's said some words.

Do we have definition as to what they mean or if they have any true gravitas with the Summit presidents?

Where's the formal, documented, statement of position ... from anyone.

I'll agree with the person who said they respected the NCAA for at least stepping up and putting their position out there on paper: This and this by that date or this triggers in. Hey, at least we know where the NCAA is at. It's on paper. It's not an unanswered media inquiry.

You can demand anything you want, but you aren't going to get the Summit to make any more of a commitment than they have. They don't care what you want to hear, it doesn't have any affect on them in any way. As I said before, they don't release any information on the application process so why do you believe they are going to release any more information on this topic. Faison and Kelley seem to have a pretty good handle on what is required, or at least believe they do. That is probably all you are going to get.

As far as the definition of "resolved", I don't have Douple's quote handy but I believe that he stated they wanted the argument decided. If UND was going to be able to keep the Fighting Sioux nickname going forward, that was fine. And if UND was not going to be able to keep the name and would be changing it, that was fine. They just want to know up or down.

[DamStrait]

There is no longer a "keep the nickname at all costs" attitude with the majority of UND fans, much less residents of the state. The majority of people I talk to love the nickname but are tired of the issue. They just want it to be decided and want the issue to go away. There will be a segment of diehard fans that want the name and logo to stay forever no matter what, and some of them will go to their graves feeling that way. But the majority of the population will adjust to what ever is decided.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

[DamStrait]

Why? Just so they can get eggs and tomatoes thrown at them by a bunch of maniac UND hockey fans who don't care about any other team at UND?

Yeah, like Gene Roebuck.

[82SiouxGuy]

What's to keep the Spirit Lake tribe from Suing the NCAA?

Nothing. Except the fact that the Tribal Council hasn't shown any interest in getting actively involved in the issue. The small group of individuals pushed the issue and got petitions signed for the referendum. The Tribal Council has basically been non-committal throughout the process. They don't seem likely to push the issue to keep the name. Plus we don't know what kind of a chance they would have to win and it would cost a lot of money, so what is their incentive to file a lawsuit.

The individuals that have pushed the issue at Spirit Lake are more likely to try something like suing the NCAA. But as individuals I don't think they would have standing in Federal court to get the lawsuit through the system. There was a serious question whether they had standing in the state court and they lost that one before it went to trial.

[the green team]

I just get the feeling that we will get to Novembe 2010 before the final decision is made. There's been to much posturing, and twists and turns in this saga to believe otherwise.

Here's my prediction with all the legal haggling and everything else... We will arrive in November with a meeting which will resolve to retire the nickname. No one will have heard boo, from Standing Rock, leaving a bewildered SBoHE to go with the choice that they didn't want to have to make. The Summit will have waited for UND, to join the conference, however they did go ahead and schedule the season that needed to be scheduled leaving UND to join a year later than they would have preferred, forcing them at least for another year to throw more money covering costs to travel within the Great West. In the end we all will be poorer. No Nickname, Less Money in the bank to operate- after another year of heavy expenditures, missed recruits as they choose to go to rivals.

Not a pretty picture no matter how you slice it but I do think we will make it to November. But I don't think we'll hear anything from SR in that time.

[The Sicatoka]

You can demand anything you want, but you aren't going to get the Summit to make any more of a commitment than they have. They don't care what you want to hear, it doesn't have any affect on them in any way.

Ah, but it does affect them.

Perception is reality, and it truly is becoming in this case.

Douple has created a more than legitimate perception as an dodger of questions from the media. That's the Summit commissioner. That's perception of how the Summit operates that he's creating.

Even a simple, "We've stated our position to the media already. Please reference that." is better than not returning calls to Tu-Uyen Tran of the GF Herald.