Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/147889/

The board will discuss what it can do about that at its monthly meeting Thursday at UND.

Morley said Friday that it takes as long as nine months for the Supreme Court to decide, but he understands the state will seek an expedited hearing and he

[82SiouxGuy]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/147889/

The board will discuss what it can do about that at its monthly meeting Thursday at UND.

Morley said Friday that it takes as long as nine months for the Supreme Court to decide, but he understands the state will seek an expedited hearing and he

[darell1976]

It won't take 9 months. Both sides seem interested in getting an expedited hearing so the Supreme Court will probably review it rather quickly. The 45 days mentioned is possible. I would expect something from the Court in February and the SBoHE will be free to make a decision at either the February or March meeting, depending on when the decision comes down.

Best case senario: SR votes on the nickname

Worst case senario: SBoHE is pissed at these court trials and changes the name as soon as the appeal is over.

[MplsBison]

The SL obstructionism is almost comically moot, IMO.

The SR have sat on their hands all this time...what makes anyone think that they're going to all of a sudden wake up and advance the issue?

[Blackburn87]

All I can say is thank you Spirit Lake members for actually giving a damn about this issue and demanding to be heard. I hope Standing Rock moves quickly, but if not, it won't be for a lack of effort on behalf of Spirit Lake.

I also hope that if SBHE sees significant movement in Standing Rock, they'll stand down and not disrespect the tribal members while they sort out their own position on this issue. If you ask me, the SBHE has been incredibly arrogant, patronizing and condescending toward both tribes and Sioux Supporters, which unfortunately mirrors many of the out-there Sioux-name-haters.

I also think that the Summit's demand that we "settle this issue" before becoming members is garbage. What dog do they really have in this fight? How does our family squabble affect other schools? It doesn't... it's political correctness and politics clothed in sports affiliations. I guess you can put me down as someone who really doesn't care what the Summit League or anyone else outside of North Dakota thinks about this issue. I can't imagine hockey without the Fighting Sioux name and tradition. It won't be the same no matter what they call us. I just wish the UND administration had the balls to stand up for the teams, the alumni, the students, and the supporters of Sioux Athletics. Clearly, they do not.

[gjw007]

It's not the same because those were for-profit monopolies. The NCAA is a voluntary association.

UND could go independent of the NCAA, if it wanted, too.

Going back to the argument of the being a union member, its voluntary but you just don't can't work there and earn a living if you don't join the union. Likewise, if UND wasn't a member of the NCAA or similar organization, it couldn't play any games. Right! It's really voluntary

[MplsBison]

All I can say is thank you Spirit Lake members for actually giving a damn about this issue and demanding to be heard. I hope Standing Rock moves quickly, but if not, it won't be for a lack of effort on behalf of Spirit Lake.

I also hope that if SBHE sees significant movement in Standing Rock, they'll stand down and not disrespect the tribal members while they sort out their own position on this issue. If you ask me, the SBHE has been incredibly arrogant, patronizing and condescending toward both tribes and Sioux Supporters, which unfortunately mirrors many of the out-there Sioux-name-haters.

I also think that the Summit's demand that we "settle this issue" before becoming members is garbage. What dog do they really have in this fight? How does our family squabble affect other schools? It doesn't... it's political correctness and politics clothed in sports affiliations. I guess you can put me down as someone who really doesn't care what the Summit League or anyone else outside of North Dakota thinks about this issue. I can't imagine hockey without the Fighting Sioux name and tradition. It won't be the same no matter what they call us. I just wish the UND administration had the balls to stand up for the teams, the alumni, the students, and the supporters of Sioux Athletics. Clearly, they do not.

I'm glad the UND administration has the balls to stand up for the non-hockey UND teams that will gain a huge advantage by being in an auto-bid conference with three other Dakota universities.

[Blackburn87]

I'm glad the UND administration has the balls to stand up for the non-hockey UND teams that will gain a huge advantage by being in an auto-bid conference with three other Dakota universities.

Let me preface first by saying that politically, I am a liberal; however, let me take this opportunity to address other liberals for the mistaken stand they have taken on this issue.

First, to get anywhere in college politics, particularly in an administrative capacity, you have to reflect the political leanings of the people in power; thus, the leadership UND gets does not reflect the people or the state of North Dakota. Typically, they come from other parts of the country and have no ties to the region. They do reflect the typically far-left leanings of other university administrators and many college professors. When I say they lack the balls to stand up for University athletics and alumni, that's true. I have been spectacularly unimpressed with the powers that be across the board. They have been gutless, to say the least. Hockey is not the end-all, be-all of UND athletics, but it is without a doubt, the showcase sports program. UND could (and should) have handled this differently. It is typical college politics that the Summit is playing as well. It really doesn't want the issue "resolved" for UND's consideration for membership; it wants a forced deadline which in turn will coerce the SBHE and administration to capitulate on this issue. What the NCAA and Summit League has done is essentially emasculate UND (and other colleges) into the same pablum of political correctness. The NCAA is not a government entity, so there's not a First Amendment issue with the name; however, it is downright Un-American to force your will and dictates on people who don't want it. The NCAA surely has bigger issues than this one (cheating scandals, steroids, recruiting violations, etc.) And yet, it chose to focus on a handful of schools with Indian logos and treat them as if they are the worst thing to ever happen to the Native American people.

The problem with political correctness is that it presumes to know what's best for everyone, even the people who don't want it. For example, if a Native American claims the Sioux name and logo and wears it proudly, then he (or she) is a dupe and needs to be protected from himself. I would have been more impressed if UND had stuck to its guns, but that was done once they settled with the NCAA. I only hope the lawsuit will extend the timeline the SBHE has forced upon us... and who's to say the people of Spirit Lake don't have standing to argue for keeping the name? I'll leave that to the Supreme Court of North Dakota

[MplsBison]

Let me preface first by saying that politically, I am a liberal; however, let me take this opportunity to address other liberals for the mistaken stand they have taken on this issue.

First, to get anywhere in college politics, particularly in an administrative capacity, you have to reflect the political leanings of the people in power; thus, the leadership UND gets does not reflect the people or the state of North Dakota. Typically, they come from other parts of the country and have no ties to the region. They do reflect the typically far-left leanings of other university administrators and many college professors. When I say they lack the balls to stand up for University athletics and alumni, that's true. I have been spectacularly unimpressed with the powers that be across the board. They have been gutless, to say the least. Hockey is not the end-all, be-all of UND athletics, but it is without a doubt, the showcase sports program. UND could (and should) have handled this differently. It is typical college politics that the Summit is playing as well. It really doesn't want the issue "resolved" for UND's consideration for membership; it wants a forced deadline which in turn will coerce the SBHE and administration to capitulate on this issue. What the NCAA and Summit League has done is essentially emasculate UND (and other colleges) into the same pablum of political correctness. The NCAA is not a government entity, so there's not a First Amendment issue with the name; however, it is downright Un-American to force your will and dictates on people who don't want it. The NCAA surely has bigger issues than this one (cheating scandals, steroids, recruiting violations, etc.) And yet, it chose to focus on a handful of schools with Indian logos and treat them as if they are the worst thing to ever happen to the Native American people.

The problem with political correctness is that it presumes to know what's best for everyone, even the people who don't want it. For example, if a Native American claims the Sioux name and logo and wears it proudly, then he (or she) is a dupe and needs to be protected from himself. I would have been more impressed if UND had stuck to its guns, but that was done once they settled with the NCAA. I only hope the lawsuit will extend the timeline the SBHE has forced upon us... and who's to say the people of Spirit Lake don't have standing to argue for keeping the name? I'll leave that to the Supreme Court of North Dakota

The Supreme Court will (rightfully) rule that the SBoHE has the authority to govern the state's institutions of higher education.

Obviously.

That includes being able to tell them to retire the nickname prior to Nov 2010. There was nothing in the agreement between the state and the NCAA that obligates the school to keep the nickname until the deadline.

There is no other logic to this.

There is only emotion. As it's always been.

[Blackburn87]

[

There is no other logic to this.

There is only emotion. As it's always been.

[MplsBison]

[

There is no other logic to this.

There is only emotion. As it's always been.

... and that's where you miss the mark. I can't believe I'm back here again arguing with a troll who should really find another message board to haunt, but here goes.

This issue is both emotional and logical. Any issue worthy of debate is both. Wanting to keep the name, while it has emotional underpinnings, is logical as well.

1) Keeping the name keeps your alumni (i.e., donors) happy.

2) The vast majority of the Native American population of North Dakota support the name. (e.g., Spirit Lake)

3) Keeping the Sioux name keeps a long running tradition alive.

4) No money will be expended on defacing major portions of the REA if UND retains the Sioux name.

5) Our other sports programs will exist and thrive under the Sioux moniker, not just hockey.

This clearly is an emotional issue for you despite your protests to the contrary. You're clearly not a UND alum, so I don't know why you think any of us give much weight to your opinions. You state that you believe in having UND in the Summit, but keeping the Sioux name doesn't preclude that, so again, why do you care? You must be a masochist to put up with the punishment the Sioux fans put you through every time you're on here. (And if that's the case, that explains a lot...)

Hmmm... so I guess you have no life and this message board is it for you? I actually feel a little sorry for you...

I never said wanting to keep the nickname was illogical.

But arguing that the SBoHE should not have the authority to retire the nickname before the Nov 2010 deadline clearly is.

It's not their fault that the SR won't give a damn about the nickname and do something about it.

[The Sicatoka]

It's not their fault that the SR won't give a damn about the nickname and do something about it.

This you got right.

[Chewey]

[

There is no other logic to this.

There is only emotion. As it's always been.

... and that's where you miss the mark. I can't believe I'm back here again arguing with a troll who should really find another message board to haunt, but here goes.

This issue is both emotional and logical. Any issue worthy of debate is both. Wanting to keep the name, while it has emotional underpinnings, is logical as well.

1) Keeping the name keeps your alumni (i.e., donors) happy.

2) The vast majority of the Native American population of North Dakota support the name. (e.g., Spirit Lake)

3) Keeping the Sioux name keeps a long running tradition alive.

4) No money will be expended on defacing major portions of the REA if UND retains the Sioux name.

5) Our other sports programs will exist and thrive under the Sioux moniker, not just hockey.

This clearly is an emotional issue for you despite your protests to the contrary. You're clearly not a UND alum, so I don't know why you think any of us give much weight to your opinions. You state that you believe in having UND in the Summit, but keeping the Sioux name doesn't preclude that, so again, why do you care? You must be a masochist to put up with the punishment the Sioux fans put you through every time you're on here. (And if that's the case, that explains a lot...)

Hmmm... so I guess you have no life and this message board is it for you? I actually feel a little sorry for you...

Now that is VERY well said, indeed. Do I have your permission to post this on my refrigerator? I'm serious. The only thing is that the troll will not possess the ability to process those insights.

[MplsBison]

Now that is VERY well said, indeed. Do I have your permission to post this on my refrigerator? I'm serious. The only thing is that the troll will not possess the ability to process those insights.

His entire rant was a red herring. I never argued that wanting to keep the nickname was illogical.

I'm arguing from the perspective that there has already been a deal cut between the state and the NCAA that requires UND to drop the nickname if support can not be won by Nov 2010. And there is nothing in the deal that obligates UND to keep the name until that deadline, thus giving the SBoHE the authority to end it early if it sees fit.

[the green team]

I think pointing at the Summit League as being a culprit in this is getting to the point where it really doesn't matter what their position is. Realistically, there is only about 8 months left on the deadline anyway. We've had how much time after the settlement to make progress? It hasn't happened on the SR reservation and every indication is that there isn't going to be. By the time the SBoHE gets around to it...it will be November anyway, and we will have had the full amount of time or- near that- to try gain approval. This is the way the SR reservation and their leadership are deciding to approach this and that is fine with me. It's unfortunate, but that's sometimes how it works out there, and there is nothing that you or I, can do to change the way they prioritize issues.

[MplsBison]

I think pointing at the Summit League as being a culprit in this is getting to the point where it really doesn't matter what their position is. Realistically, there is only about 8 months left on the deadline anyway. We've had how much time after the settlement to make progress? It hasn't happened on the SR reservation and every indication is that there isn't going to be. By the time the SBoHE gets around to it...it will be November anyway, and we will have had the full amount of time or- near that- to try gain approval. This is the way the SR reservation and their leadership are deciding to approach this and that is fine with me. It's unfortunate, but that's sometimes how it works out there, and there is nothing that you or I, can do to change the way they prioritize issues.

I guarantee there will be bitter UND hockey fans who blame the Summit 50 years from now for ruining UND hockey.

[Goon]

I guarantee there will be bitter UND hockey fans who blame the Summit 50 years from now for ruining UND hockey.

WCHA > Summit

[MplsBison]

WCHA > Summit

Have fun in the WCHA minus the Big Ten teams.

[Goon]

Have fun in the WCHA minus the Big Ten teams.

Really it would still be a better league than the CCHA, EZAC, AHA and still better than the Summit with it's unimpressive schools out side of SDSU, NDSU and SD.

[DamStrait]

Have fun in the WCHA minus the Big Ten teams.

The Summit does not sponsor football. How many at large teams have made the NCAA basketball tournament from the Summit (or whatever it has been called before becoming "the Summit")?

[MplsBison]

The Summit does not sponsor football. How many at large teams have made the NCAA basketball tournament from the Summit (or whatever it has been called before becoming "the Summit")?

I doubt if there's ever been an at large from the Summit/Mid-Continent.

I should've known better than to let myself be dragged down to a "mine's bigger than yours" UND hockey bashing every other UND sport argument. You clearly could care less if bball, vball, softball, etc. have any success if it means the UND hockey team can't be the Sioux.

[Goon]

I doubt if there's ever been an at large from the Summit/Mid-Continent.

I should've known better than to let myself be dragged down to a "mine's bigger than yours" UND hockey bashing every other UND sport argument. You clearly could care less if bball, vball, softball, etc. have any success if it means the UND hockey team can't be the Sioux.

not at all we just are tired of drivel.

[DamStrait]

I doubt if there's ever been an at large from the Summit/Mid-Continent.

I should've known better than to let myself be dragged down to a "mine's bigger than yours" UND hockey bashing every other UND sport argument. You clearly could care less if bball, vball, softball, etc. have any success if it means the UND hockey team can't be the Sioux.

Your conclusion that UND basketball, volleyball, softball, etc. success = belonging to the Summit and only the Summit is not fact, but merely your opinion. Your conclusion that UND basketball, volleyball, softball, etc. belonging to the Summit and UND being the Sioux are mutually exclusive is not fact, but merely your opinion. Further commentary by the Summit on UND membership and its moniker is conspicuous by its absence. Could it be that the Summit has backed away from their ridiculous ultimatum, realizing that it was born out of bad-mouthing by a member school's now totally discredited administration and that UND already has a deadline they've negotiated with the NCAA?

[Goon]

Your conclusion that UND basketball, volleyball, softball, etc. success = belonging to the Summit and only the Summit is not fact, but merely your opinion. Your conclusion that UND basketball, volleyball, softball, etc. belonging to the Summit and UND being the Sioux are mutually exclusive is not fact, but merely your opinion. Further commentary by the Summit on UND membership and its moniker is conspicuous by its absence. Could it be that the Summit has backed away from their ridiculous ultimatum, realizing that it was born out of bad-mouthing by a member school's now totally discredited administration and that UND already has a deadline they've negotiated with the NCAA?

BINGO

[MoreSiouxForYou]

Have fun in the WCHA minus the Big Ten teams.

Actually one of the thoughts was to include UND in the Big Ten Hockey Conf. as not allthe schools have a hockey Progam right now. (looking for the article to post)