2005-06 ND Highschool Hockey

[specifics]

South was not the best team in the state because they did not win the state tournement? Be realistic for a minute. I've already used this analogy but was the 1980 olympic team the best team in the world when they won olympic gold? No! If they were in fact the best team in the world we would not have to movie today entitled "Miracle". Because thats what it was, IT WAS A MIRACLE. The best team does not always win. Fargo South was in fact the best team in the state day in and day out last year and it was also a MIRACLE to see two Grand Forks teams in the state championship last year. The state title is not awarded to the best team that year, it is entitled to the team that plays best in 3 games. Can anyone in here honestly say that the best team ALWAYS wins. Because that is exactly what everyone of you who appose the fact that Fargo South was the best have said.

Junior24, you asked how can I say they were the best team when they did not win the state championship...

Well Junior24, let me ask you, Does the best team win all the time? Answer that.

[Siouxhockey78]

He's prolly Red River Blonde Hairt lover anyways. There was a few times in the last few years when yes Mr. Leducer aided in RR win. I believe it was last year when WF was beating RR in the regionals or State can't remember and all of sudden there was plenties left and right WF until they caught up and won the game. I Was there and wasn't the only that noticed it. They wouldn't have won if it was for Leducer. I wonder what ball crap response Junior 24 will have to this post.

[junior24]

You are right, I do love Red River and the blonde hair. They are state champs how can you not love em'. Well actually they arent the real state champs because LaDoucer won the game for them. If im not mistaken they were screwed out of a big call last year by the Red Beard but a good team plays through that and wins games. And by the way you must really know what your talking about because Red River was never losing to West Fargo you dumb @$$.

[soohockey15]

He's prolly Red River Blonde Hairt lover anyways. There was a few times in the last few years when yes Mr. Leducer aided in RR win. I believe it was last year when WF was beating RR in the regionals or State can't remember and all of sudden there was plenties left and right WF until they caught up and won the game. I Was there and wasn't the only that noticed it. They wouldn't have won if it was for Leducer. I wonder what ball crap response Junior 24 will have to this post.

Wow, you really think that one official aided a victory against a terrible team? That is easily the stupidest thing I've heard. And as I am typing this, I am asking a Red River hockey player about the validity of this statement. He was on the championship team this year, and he told me that throughout his entire varsity career (3 years), he never played in a game in which they were at one point losing to West Fargo. Get your facts straight.

[#1siouxfan22]

This poster if refering to the EDC play in game last year in which North was leading but choked and Red River ended up winning.

[soohockey15]

Regardless of the game, it is ludacris to say that one official can change the direction of the game. Sure they can call penalties, but officials can't score goals. Oh, and in that North game, Red River had 2 penalties called in the first 7 minutes of the 3rd period, so the refereeing obviously biased as some people think.

[Siouxhockey78]

Your right I don't have a clue what I am talking about....lol but at least one person new what game I was talking about. So I had the wrong team but I doesn't matter what team it was because it was so freaken obvious a half blind man not knowing anything about hockey could have seen it. Talk to someone once that heard right out of well known refee's mouth.

Regardless of the game, it is ludacris to say that one official can change the direction of the game. Sure they can call penalties, but officials can't score goals. Oh, and in that North game, Red River had 2 penalties called in the first 7 minutes of the 3rd period, so the refereeing obviously biased as some people think.

I understand that officals can't score goals but when you go from calling a descent game to calling anyting and everything that would usually be let go in a game like that until the team catch's up. You give enough powerplay's and you are going to eventually score goals. I seen it with my own eyes. Those two penalties were just a cover up to make it look like they were calling a descent game. I believe North was totally out playing them up until Leducer's whistle started working for RR.

[X2theZ]

Your right I don't have a clue what I am talking about....lol but at least one person new what game I was talking about. So I had the wrong team but I doesn't matter what team it was because it was so freaken obvious a half blind man not knowing anything about hockey could have seen it. Talk to someone once that heard right out of well known refee's mouth.

I understand that officals can't score goals but when you go from calling a descent game to calling anyting and everything that would usually be let go in a game like that until the team catch's up. You give enough powerplay's and you are going to eventually score goals. I seen it with my own eyes. Those two penalties were just a cover up to make it look like they were calling a descent game. I believe North was totally out playing them up until Leducer's whistle started working for RR.

I don't have a problem with a little poor grammer, but guys come on. I can hardly tell what you guys are saying. Also, I hope your kidding when you said referres can't help determine the outcome of a game

You are right, I do love Red River and the blonde hair. They are state champs how can you not love em'. Well actually they arent the real state champs because LaDoucer won the game for them. If im not mistaken they were screwed out of a big call last year by the Red Beard but a good team plays through that and wins games. And by the way you must really know what your talking about because Red River was never losing to West Fargo you dumb @$$.

Aren't you alittle young to be on the computer?

[soohockey15]

Your right I don't have a clue what I am talking about....lol but at least one person new what game I was talking about. So I had the wrong team but I doesn't matter what team it was because it was so freaken obvious a half blind man not knowing anything about hockey could have seen it. Talk to someone once that heard right out of well known refee's mouth.

I understand that officals can't score goals but when you go from calling a descent game to calling anyting and everything that would usually be let go in a game like that until the team catch's up. You give enough powerplay's and you are going to eventually score goals. I seen it with my own eyes. Those two penalties were just a cover up to make it look like they were calling a descent game. I believe North was totally out playing them up until Leducer's whistle started working for RR.

Ha ha, the two penalties on the Riders were made to "cover up" the others. That's the second stupidest thing I've heard from you today. I'm sure it was in LaDoucer's mind to call all the penalties he could until Red River caught up. That's absolutely rediculous.

[specifics]

A referee can not singlehandely take the game from one team and give it to another. They can however make it very very difficult for one team to become the victor in a game in which they deserve it. In the North v. Red River in which North was winning for the majority of the game, the penalty situation did not begin in the 3rd period. Both teams had substantial penalties but the trouble started for North in the 2nd period. At one point in time Fargo North was killing a 5 on 3 penalty for 4 minutes. Red River did not score once during this power play. Fargo North did not have any 5 on 3 powerplays in that game but they did have some powerplays. Now it is a matter of opinion of what penalties were "good" calls and what calls were "bad" calls but in my opinion the game was really snatched from the hands of the Fargo North players. Late in the 3rd I remember seeing a smallish forward for the Spartans ride out a Red River defenseman after he dumped the puck in and was called for interference. I dont care how hard he hits him that defensemen is fair game for a hit immediatly after he dumps the puck in. Add to the fact one of Red Rivers goals was kicked in and I think it's fairly easy to see that Red River had a helping hand to get into that state championship game.

[soohockey15]

Were there questionable calls in the game? Sure, but there's questionable calls in every game, and the calls went both ways. Did the Riders get lucky to win the game? Sure, they scored 3 goals in 7 minutes. But was Dave LaDoucer out "to get" North? That is absolutely ludacris. A. Dave LaDoucer is very respected as an official in North Dakota. He's been around the game for many, many years. B. All the talk that he screwed teams out of winning games came from fans who were mad just because they're team didn't win the game.

[X2theZ]

Regardless of the game, it is ludacris to say that one official can change the direction of the game. Sure they can call penalties, but officials can't score goals. Oh, and in that North game, Red River had 2 penalties called in the first 7 minutes of the 3rd period, so the refereeing obviously biased as some people think.

If you happen to have a copy of the 2004 ND state hockey finals, between GFC and South. Watch the last 3 minutes of that film. A well fought game by both teams, then the officials got alittle chesty and took it out of the kids hands.

[soohockey15]

If you happen to have a copy of the 2004 ND state hockey finals, between GFC and South. Watch the last 3 minutes of that film. A well fought game by both teams, then the officials got alittle chesty and took it out of the kids hands.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The referees don't decide the outcome of the game. I don't specifically remember the last 3 minutes, but was Central on the power play in the last 3 minutes? Even if they were, South had successfully killed off the Central power plays previous to the last 3 minutes. Did the refs let in 2 weak goals in 47 seconds? People use referees as excuses for teams choking in big games. That's all there is to it.

[ND Hockey 4]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The referees don't decide the outcome of the game. I don't specifically remember the last 3 minutes, but was Central on the power play in the last 3 minutes? Even if they were, South had successfully killed off the Central power plays previous to the last 3 minutes. Did the refs let in 2 weak goals in 47 seconds? People use referees as excuses for teams choking in big games. That's all there is to it.

The call was marginal at best, not a call that should be made considering the situation. It may have cost them the win in regulation but they can't blame anybody but themselves for the go ahead goal.

[X2theZ]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The referees don't decide the outcome of the game. I don't specifically remember the last 3 minutes, but was Central on the power play in the last 3 minutes? Even if they were, South had successfully killed off the Central power plays previous to the last 3 minutes. Did the refs let in 2 weak goals in 47 seconds? People use referees as excuses for teams choking in big games. That's all there is to it.

[soohockey15]

You feel like you're talking to a ten year old? Well this ten year old knows a helluva lot more about hockey than you do. What is the specific instance you are talking about? I'm not doubting that it happend, I just don't recall the last state championship game in overtime. If you are talking about the Red River-Fargo North 5 OT game, the Riders deserved to win that one because they had outplayed North the entire night. Regardless, that one miscall was an isolated incident in which a team was unlucky with the outcome of the call. But the official didn't score the game winning goal. Is it playing a part in the outcome? Yes, but the team still had a chance to score; they didn't lose the game at that specific point. However, you can't tell me that the team wasn't helped during the course of the season by an official making the incorrect call that went in their favor. Human error is part of the game. However, officials make the correct call about 98% of the time. THE OFFICIALS DO NOT DECIDE GAMES!!! Do you ever hear players after games blaming officials directly for the loss? Never. But you do hear fans complain because they need somewhere to place the blame. The players know that even with the bad calls, they still have the chance to win the game.

[Bauer16]

There are players that prosper from year to year. Yes once Justin Mauch found the joy in hockey rather than other things he played great his senior year. Grant Larson grew 10 inches since he was a starter on the JV hockey team his sophomore year, and was a great asset to South his junior year, and i expect him to be his senior year. Howver, there are times when players have a totaly turn around. Paul Weisgarber is an excellent hockey player and fortunatly his knew has been holding up well. Especially in the Elite League, but things can change. Tyler Dalby for South as a junior was an excellent player, his senior year was a total turn around. That is what is so great about this game. I wonder if we will have more quality scoring chances at the 2006 six championship hockey game compared to the 4 that were recorded at the 2005 game. Classic North Dakota hockey.

If you happen to have a copy of the 2004 ND state hockey finals, between GFC and South. Watch the last 3 minutes of that film. A well fought game by both teams, then the officials got alittle chesty and took it out of the kids hands.

The season has not even started and it is time to blame the officials.

[Bauer16]

No! I have an EXTREMELY good memory(hence I find it easy to recall things already said in the past). ALSO, school at UND I don't find challenging, so wait....Yes I guess I do have an above average amount of time compared to your typical college student.

Specific: Fine you WIN: Fargo South was the best team last year....AND I guarantee they will also be this year.

I want you and FS to have the "best" team.

But I want a GF team to win a state "title."

One goes in the record book. One does not.

I don't want to be on the "best" team. I want to be on a "title" team.

For those of you hockey fans, players, fathers, and people that should find sometihng better to do. Yes South has been one of the better teams for years and years.they have the numbers to construct a good team. Wilson has had so much to work with with the Hunters, Askew, Hansen days, the mid 90s with Tupa and many others including the Felmans and many other player. In more recent years with the 2004 hockey team with Galt, Weisgarber, Brehmer, McLean, Kankelfritz, Campbell, Mauch and the rest yet still short of a state title and yes I know that other teams have had amazing players as well. My point is that the last three years South has had three great teams. A great facility to practice and workout in/on, and excellent area programs and training equipment. Yet they come short when it count. The coaching is where it needs to be. I tihnk it comes down to what the players really want. four players wanting a state title will not win it. It is easy to say they are goign to do it or want it a lot. It is another for a team to win it.

You feel like you're talking to a ten year old? Well this ten year old knows a helluva lot more about hockey than you do. What is the specific instance you are talking about? I'm not doubting that it happend, I just don't recall the last state championship game in overtime. If you are talking about the Red River-Fargo North 5 OT game, the Riders deserved to win that one because they had outplayed North the entire night. Regardless, that one miscall was an isolated incident in which a team was unlucky with the outcome of the call. But the official didn't score the game winning goal. Is it playing a part in the outcome? Yes, but the team still had a chance to score; they didn't lose the game at that specific point. However, you can't tell me that the team wasn't helped during the course of the season by an official making the incorrect call that went in their favor. Human error is part of the game. However, officials make the correct call about 98% of the time. THE OFFICIALS DO NOT DECIDE GAMES!!! Do you ever hear players after games blaming officials directly for the loss? Never. But you do hear fans complain because they need somewhere to place the blame. The players know that even with the bad calls, they still have the chance to win the game.

Wow you sound like someone that actually played the game of hockey and also know the rules of the game. What will get bad again is when players start writing on here complaining of certain officials this season. This is a prime example of bad parenting when parents over the past few years have been the blunt of problems that officials have to deal with. When a player argues with a professional that knows more about the game than they do, makes for an interesting conversation, but i suppose that's what sells.

[BringDeanBack]

If you happen to have a copy of the 2004 ND state hockey finals, between GFC and South. Watch the last 3 minutes of that film. A well fought game by both teams, then the officials got alittle chesty and took it out of the kids hands.

South choked, something they are pretty good at. Every year all we hear is South South South. Every year in the championhip, it is Grand Forks, Grand Forks, Grand Forks. This year will be no different.

[X2theZ]

For those of you hockey fans, players, fathers, and people that should find sometihng better to do. Yes South has been one of the better teams for years and years.they have the numbers to construct a good team. Wilson has had so much to work with with the Hunters, Askew, Hansen days, the mid 90s with Tupa and many others including the Felmans and many other player. In more recent years with the 2004 hockey team with Galt, Weisgarber, Brehmer, McLean, Kankelfritz, Campbell, Mauch and the rest yet still short of a state title and yes I know that other teams have had amazing players as well. My point is that the last three years South has had three great teams. A great facility to practice and workout in/on, and excellent area programs and training equipment. Yet they come short when it count. The coaching is where it needs to be. I tihnk it comes down to what the players really want. four players wanting a state title will not win it. It is easy to say they are goign to do it or want it a lot. It is another for a team to win it.

Wow you sound like someone that actually played the game of hockey and also know the rules of the game. What will get bad again is when players start writing on here complaining of certain officials this season. This is a prime example of bad parenting when parents over the past few years have been the blunt of problems that officials have to deal with. When a player argues with a professional that knows more about the game than they do, makes for an interesting conversation, but i suppose that's what sells.

Hey guys, looks like we have someone with two Alias's.

[Jack Mickleson]

South choked, something they are pretty good at. Every year all we hear is South South South. Every year in the championhip, it is Grand Forks, Grand Forks, Grand Forks. This year will be no different.

It will be different.

[X2theZ]

You feel like you're talking to a ten year old? Well this ten year old knows a helluva lot more about hockey than you do. What is the specific instance you are talking about? I'm not doubting that it happend, I just don't recall the last state championship game in overtime. If you are talking about the Red River-Fargo North 5 OT game, the Riders deserved to win that one because they had outplayed North the entire night. Regardless, that one miscall was an isolated incident in which a team was unlucky with the outcome of the call. But the official didn't score the game winning goal. Is it playing a part in the outcome? Yes, but the team still had a chance to score; they didn't lose the game at that specific point. However, you can't tell me that the team wasn't helped during the course of the season by an official making the incorrect call that went in their favor. Human error is part of the game. However, officials make the correct call about 98% of the time. THE OFFICIALS DO NOT DECIDE GAMES!!! Do you ever hear players after games blaming officials directly for the loss? Never. But you do hear fans complain because they need somewhere to place the blame. The players know that even with the bad calls, they still have the chance to win the game.

Your right, they should have had to score twice.

[ND Hockey 4]

South choked, something they are pretty good at. Every year all we hear is South South South. Every year in the championhip, it is Grand Forks, Grand Forks, Grand Forks. This year will be no different.

Red River should get to state but Central is going to need to get very lucky if they are going to make it to state.

[ND Pride]

Regardless of the game, it is ludacris to say that one official can change the direction of the game. Sure they can call penalties, but officials can't score goals.

As a mental exercise consider the following scenarios all involving actual situations of referee error:

1. Five seconds left in the game and one team scores a goal on a slapshot but the puck hits the pipe in the back of the net and comes out. The ref, racing to keep up with the play, is partially screened and incorrectly calls no goal. The team that scored the incorrectly disallowed goal loses 1-0. Did the official have an impact on the direction of the game?

2. Thirty seconds left in the game and a player shoots the puck on a breakaway but it is apparently stopped on the line under the goalie's pads. The ref sees the goalie move forward and believes the goalie pulled the puck back over the line (no goal). He awards the attacking team a goal. The attacking team wins the game 3-2. Did the official have an impact on the direction of the game?

3. Early in the first period an attacking forward falls near the crease as he moves past the goal. The ref, who has a bad angle on the play, sees the goalie move his stick and incorrectly calls him for tripping. The attacking team is awarded a power play opportunity but does not score. Did the official change the direction of the game?

It has been claimed that officials do not score goals and in the sense of shooting the puck with a stick they do not score goals. However, the interpretation of an official legitimizes a goal and sometimes, not very often, they credit a goal that is indeed not a goal and disallow goals that are legitimate scores.

If refs did not make errors there would be no motivation to have replays. We can see that at the highest level the growth of replays has been significant. That growth tells us that there is error and that the hockey establishment wants to minimize/eliminate it. Anyone who has done any work as an official can tell you that getting the proper position on a play is sometimes very very difficult. They typically do the best they can but the speed of the game often puts impossible demands on them.

I think the first two scenarios above show that an official can change the direction of a game. There are situations where a team does not have time to recover from an incorrect call. When the call involves a misinterpretation of a goal (allow or disallow) the impact is direct. When the ref makes an incorrect penalty call the impact is indirect - the team receiving the penalty can still defend against it and the team with the advantage still has to have the skill (or sometimes luck) to take the advantage and score.

Some of the discussion in this thread has grossly oversimplified the impact of officials. The impact depends on the nature of the situation, the point of the game, and the type of call made.

Five more days before high school hockey begins.

Edited November 2, 2005 by ND Pride

[teamsioux]

Wondering if anyone knew how many RR varsity hockey players were involved in this past weekends party raids? I heard from numerous people that as many as 6 were charged with minor in possession, the # depending upon who makes the big team.