Is UND Hockey Still the Underdog?

[chandler23]

Let it be known that I am a Gophers fan before you start to read this post. If you'd like to continue, please do so.

So...I have friends and relatives that are Sioux hockey rubes and they all absolutely love to play the "Us against the World" card...especially as it pertains to the University of Minnesota. They criticize the U of M for having every advantage: location, Minnesota recruiting connections, size, academics, and so on, etc., etc.. The New York Yankees of College Hockey perse...(without all the championships.) They boast that the University of North Dakota, even with all of their "limited resources," they somehow still prevail.

My question is this...at what point does the University of North Dakota stop playing the "life is unfair" card and admit they have the same type of advantages that they despise the U of M for having.

The Shattuck pipeline, the finest college hockey rink in the country, the nine titles (9?), going to the championship game almost every year...and oh, by the way...kicking the crap out of the U of M 3 out of 4 last year, and twice when it mattered.

Let me know.

--J

[Sioux,CO]

The Sioux only have 7 titles, Michigan has 9.

[chandler23]

Hence my question mark next to the number of titles...

Thanks for the correction.

[PCM]

My question is this...at what point does the University of North Dakota stop playing the "life is unfair" card and admit they have the same type of advantages that they despise the U of M for having. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, allow me to wecome you to SiouxSports.com with special graphics reserved for Gopher trolls.

SKIPPY ALERT!

Second, UND will probably never possess all the advantages of Minnesota.

Third, my prediction is that Sioux fans will stop whining about Minnesota's unfair advantages about the same time that Gopher fans lose their arrogance and superior attitude.

I hope that this helps answer your questions.

[sprig]

So...I have friends and relatives that are Sioux hockey rubes and they all absolutely love to play the "Us against the World" card...especially as it pertains to the University of Minnesota. They criticize the U of M for having every advantage: location, Minnesota recruiting connections, size, academics, and so on, etc., etc.. The New York Yankees of College Hockey perse...(without all the championships.) They boast that the University of North Dakota, even with all of their "limited resources," they somehow still prevail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd be happy to have such good friends and relatives. Where's the problem?

[Five-HoleFrenzy]

"My question is this...at what point does the University of North Dakota stop playing the "life is unfair" card and admit they have the same type of advantages that they despise the U of M for having. "

Stop and admit Are you demanding they do this? If you are then I'm thinking this might happen when a very hot place turns into a very cold place.

[chandler23]

I wasn't demanding anything. I was simply asking a question. I thought it might be a nice topic during the boring summer months.

And as far as arrogance, well...I see that from every fan base...including North Dakota.

Here's my premise:

Elite, advantaged schools in WCHA: UND, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Disadvantaged: Everyone else.

Agree or disagree?

[yzerman19]

UND hockey (up until recently) was the great (albeit very small) state of North Dakota's only high caliber (D1 or pro) team. UND is a small school in a small state that plays big time hockey. The entire state of North Dakota is smaller than Hennepin County. UND hockey is not an underdog anymore, but the state of North Dakota is, and UND hockey is our only representation on a national stage.

The hatred of the Gophs (and they are my favorite team to hate) is mostly due to the fact that the rivalry is so rich. We share a border, we fight for the same talent, and we both have winning traditions. UND is the only team in the WCHA with a winning home record (all-time) against the Gophers.

UND is not an underdog in hockey, but the team still represents the little guy as far as school enrollment and state population.

[yzerman19]

Denver fans might object to not being labelled elite. They have won more titles than the Gophers including b2b.

MN will always be unique, due to being a huge metropolitan market. It results in different media exposure and bias.

The underdog piece goes back to the 70's when MN and Mass owned US hockey.

[DamStrait]

I wasn't demanding anything. I was simply asking a question. I thought it might be a nice topic during the boring summer months.

And as far as arrogance, well...I see that from every fan base...including North Dakota.

Here's my premise:

Elite, advantaged schools in WCHA: UND, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Disadvantaged: Everyone else.

Agree or disagree?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd add Denver to that list in a heartbeat. New rink, Denver metro. CC may not quite be a "have", but they're not really a "have-not" either.

The principal and totally legitimate bitch that Sioux fans have is the highly disproportionate number of post-season games UMN plays in MPLS-STP without earning that right. And, of course, when the Sioux suffer from the 'UMN rule' at the final five.

[mksioux]

I think the most realistic and undeniable advantage the Gophers have over UND is the fact that they get to host many more post-season games (Final 5 every year, a regional about every 2-3 years, and the frozen 4 about once per decade). Yes, UND landed a regional in 2006, but hasn't hosted anything since 1983. And UND is not slated to host another regional in the future.

Also I think being situated in a major metropolitan area with a big-time television contract doesn't hurt for breeding a multitude of little hockey playing rodent fans, who grow up wanting to play for their favorite team.

[chandler23]

I contribute Denver's Back-to-Back on "lucky goaltending."

Nothing more.

Like most UND fans, I can't stand Denver. What do they have...2 fans? 3?

I think being an elite team constitutes having a chance to win the title each year. With such a huge gap in Denver's successful teams and championships, I'd hardly call them elite.

[chandler23]

This is hard to say with a straight-face, but I'd hardly call having the final five in St. Paul an advantage.

First of all, the rink is "Sioux-size"...leading to all those chippy, over-achieving Sioux and Denver players to slow down the speed of teams like CC and Minnesota.

Secondly, oh hell...I can't do it.

Yes...it's an advantage to play these tournaments in St. Paul...sleep in your own bed...crowd support, etc...but I wouldn't call it a "HUGE" advantage. If it were so, wouldn't Minnesota have a better final five record?

The regional advantage has been there for years, but is now changing. UND has the regional this year and I believe again will get one in 2010.

[Fetch]

I loved this past yr - As a underdog - & I was pizzed at our team for awhile - cause I knew we were better than we were playing

I think Good Coaches make a Team (recruiting & style & attitude) Plus you have to have the players - But not all reach their maximum potential - for many reasons

Facility-wise were way ahead of the rest of the world now (Thank You Ralph)

It has been so long since we had a Bad team (& I hope we never do again)

But I enjoy the entire league getting better & being competitive (anyone being able to beat everyone else) & eventually the cream rises to the top

The Gophers (Minn) do have a attitude that is hard for us to swallow (Just Like how you tried to sue us over duck hunting)

We will always be underdogs because of size & population & now that you recruit our ND players & Canadian Players, it will be interesting who can mold them into TEAMS

I predict if Kessel can't become a Team Player your going to be hurting Big Time

Having 1 or 2 stars won't win National Titles (or get you there)

Great Players are Great on every shift, on all ends of the ice, & more than likely Great People Like we have here in ND

I still really don't know who was on Denvers last two teams... But they sure played Great as a Team

[AZSIOUX]

sorry but i would put the 16-19-2 record from 01/02 a bad season. besides that we are doing ok

FETCH SAYS..."It has been so long since we had a Bad team (& I hope we never do again) "

[AZSIOUX]

i also cannot stand DU anymore but lets give them the credit here....back to back is unbelievable..lucky goaltending or not..who cares they won...i think gopher fans were in a no win situation last season...hummm..do we cheer for the sioux? probably not a chance in hell..or do we cher for denver? but then our back to back does not mean as much....what a tough decision......hopefully you as a gopher fan will have that same problem in the future over and over and over..

I contribute Denver's Back-to-Back on "lucky goaltending."

Nothing more.

Like most UND fans, I can't stand Denver. What do they have...2 fans? 3?

I think being an elite team constitutes having a chance to win the title each year. With such a huge gap in Denver's successful teams and championships, I'd hardly call them elite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[NDFAN]

WOW, nothing like a little rivalry talk to bring the hockey board back to life!

[PCM]

And as far as arrogance, well...I see that from every fan base...including North Dakota.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I know. I agree. I was kidding.

As others have pointed out, North Dakota is a small state that successfully competes in DI hockey with big-time schools. UND hockey fans relish their school's underdog role and take great pleasure in knocking off such schools as Minnesota, Wisconsin, Boston University and Boston College.

So unless North Dakota suddenly becomes a hotbed of economic development and its population explodes, I don't expect Sioux fans to stop woofing about their underdog status. They enjoy it too much.

[MafiaMan]

Let it be known that I am a Gophers fan before you start to read this post. If you'd like to continue, please do so.

So...I have friends and relatives that are Sioux hockey rubes and they all absolutely love to play the "Us against the World" card...especially as it pertains to the University of Minnesota. They criticize the U of M for having every advantage: location, Minnesota recruiting connections, size, academics, and so on, etc., etc.. The New York Yankees of College Hockey perse...(without all the championships.) They boast that the University of North Dakota, even with all of their "limited resources," they somehow still prevail.

My question is this...at what point does the University of North Dakota stop playing the "life is unfair" card and admit they have the same type of advantages that they despise the U of M for having. 

The Shattuck pipeline, the finest college hockey rink in the country, the nine titles (9?), going to the championship game almost every year...and oh, by the way...kicking the crap out of the U of M 3 out of 4 last year, and twice when it mattered.

Let me know. 

--J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure who complains about "limited resources" or where that quote came from, chandler23. I live in the Twin Cities and I'll tell you why I despise the Gophers (in any sport):

#1) Heaven forbid, anyone cheer for someone other than the Gophers here. I've got news for you, folks. In Minnesota, the "U of M" stands for Minnesota. Everywhere else in the world, you mention "U of M" and they know you're talking about Meeee-chigan.

#2) Fox Sports North or The Gopher Homer Channel?

#3) Doug Woog blowing his stack over a non-call on the Sioux, then chuckling to himself over an obvious Gopher slash that is also not called.

#4) maroon and gold? Seriously, it's like poop brown and pee yellow. Who picked those colors anyways?

#5) Golden Gophers. Check out that mascot. Is it a ground squirrel, beaver, chipmunk, gopher, or some combination of all of those four?

#6) Speaking of Goldy, the "spin your head" thing was old the second time I saw it.

#7) The two blatant non-calls against Adam Hauser in OT, followed by a center-ice penalty against Maine. Black Bear fans, you know what I'm talking about.

#8) All those fans touting "Minnesota's Pride on Ice," then quickly disassociating themselves from that idea once they won a title with a "foreigner" on the roster.

#9) Big Ten football inside the Metrodome? What's next? The Wild playing home games at Richfield Ice Arena?

#10) Don Lucia talking about the Xcel Energy Center like it's some sort of hostile environment for his team to play there. Cue the video of him in 2001 saying that he expected a "50/50" fan ratio for the Maine/Minnesota game.

I'm sure I could come up with 20 more reasons, but that's a good start. With all due respect to GreyEagle, WPoS, and sagard...let the flaming begin!

[chandler23]

I was hoping this thread would concentrate on the aspects of North Dakota becoming a powerhouse hockey program that could no longer play the underdog card, and not a "Everything we hate about the U of M thread."

So MafiaMan, I agree with some of your points...the spinning your head is old, big 10 football in the dome is horrible, etc...but perhaps the "Everything we hate about each other" arguments could be saved for another time?

[MafiaMan]

I was hoping this thread would concentrate on the aspects of North Dakota becoming a powerhouse hockey program that could no longer play the underdog card, and not a "Everything we hate about the U of M thread."

So MafiaMan, I agree with some of your points...the spinning your head is old, big 10 football in the dome is horrible, etc...but perhaps the "Everything we hate about each other" arguments could be saved for another time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was trying to make you chuckle, chandler23. I don't think UND is alone in playing the underdog role. It's no different than the other schools outside of Michigan State and Michigan in the CCHA (Ferris State, Ohio State, Western Michigan, Northern Michigan, etc.) or the Merrimacks, Providence Colleges, UMass-Lowells, or UMass's of Hockey East.

Every year, smaller schools like Colorado College, Lake Superior State, etc., no matter what their record winds up as, end up travelling all over to play teams in hostile environments, namely games in Mpls/St Paul or Detroit. I realize this is the nature of the beast, but this is why I preferred home games for the NCAA playoffs as opposed to "regionals." If a small school has done well in the regular season and conference tournament, why is the reward a death sentence 1,000 miles away for the NCAA tournament? Shouldn't the home fans be entitled to see their team at home against a lesser opponent? If, say, a Northern Michigan wins the CCHA and then wins the post-season title, why should they wind up playing Michigan in Yost or be sent to a regional in Minnesota or worse yet, Boston? Why shouldn't they wind up at home against a lower-seeded team? Just my two cents. I won't get into debates about travel costs, etc. There are pluses and minuses of both the home/away playoffs and regional playoffs.

[HockeyMom]

I'm not sure who complains about "limited resources" or where that quote came from, chandler23.  I live in the Twin Cities and I'll tell you why I despise the Gophers (in any sport):

#1)  Heaven forbid, anyone cheer for someone other than the Gophers here.  I've got news for you, folks.  In Minnesota, the "U of M" stands for Minnesota.  Everywhere else in the world, you mention "U of M" and they know you're talking about Meeee-chigan. 

#2)  Fox Sports North or The Gopher Homer Channel?

#3)  Doug Woog blowing his stack over a non-call on the Sioux, then chuckling to himself over an obvious Gopher slash that is also not called.

#4)  maroon and gold?  Seriously, it's like poop brown and pee yellow.  Who picked those colors anyways?

#5)  Golden Gophers.  Check out that mascot.  Is it a ground squirrel, beaver, chipmunk, gopher, or some combination of all of those four?

#6)  Speaking of Goldy, the "spin your head" thing was old the second time I saw it.

#7)  The two blatant non-calls against Adam Hauser in OT, followed by a center-ice penalty against Maine.  Black Bear fans, you know what I'm talking about.

#8)  All those fans touting "Minnesota's Pride on Ice," then quickly disassociating themselves from that idea once they won a title with a "foreigner" on the roster.

#9)  Big Ten football inside the Metrodome?  What's next?  The Wild playing home games at Richfield Ice Arena?

#10)  Don Lucia talking about the Xcel Energy Center like it's some sort of hostile environment for his team to play there.  Cue the video of him in 2001 saying that he expected a "50/50" fan ratio for the Maine/Minnesota game. 

I'm sure I could come up with 20 more reasons, but that's a good start.  With all due respect to GreyEagle, WPoS, and sagard...let the flaming begin!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's just worth quoting.....thanks for the laugh, biggest one I've had all day.

[HockeyMom]

I was hoping this thread would concentrate on the aspects of North Dakota becoming a powerhouse hockey program that could no longer play the underdog card, and not a "Everything we hate about the U of M thread."

So MafiaMan, I agree with some of your points...the spinning your head is old, big 10 football in the dome is horrible, etc...but perhaps the "Everything we hate about each other" arguments could be saved for another time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude, you're a Gopher fan on a Sioux board what did you expect?

[MafiaMan]

You're welcome, HockeyMom.

[HockeyMom]

You're welcome, HockeyMom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This one made me laugh so hard I was almost crying:

#4)  maroon and gold?  Seriously, it's like poop brown and pee yellow.  Who picked those colors anyways?