Big 12 wants new subdivision in NCAA

[IrishSiouxFan]

I think Fullerton is right about the "illusion of FBS", there is little to no incentive for teams to move up at this point. Athletic programs at UND, NDSU, SDSU, UM, and MSU would be hemorrhaging money to play in a third or fourth tier conference like the MAC, C-USA, AAC, or Sunbelt. The ship has sailed and we all have missed it. Best thing to do now is to figure out how we can build a strong conference with strong regional rivalries that will give both the student and alumni something to be anxious about as well as the regions in which they are televised. We need to start thinking of ways of rebranding FCS in the mid-west. Just my two cents on the situation.

[jdub27]

As for the top 5 conferences starting a new ncaa like organization . . . 2 years minimum to make that happen, and likely 5. They can threaten to do that, but really, that's the last thing they want. They would much prefer to keep BB and all sports in the NCAA.

This is exactly right. But the "others" also realize that they would take a huge hit $$$ wise and that is the last thing they want as well. Which is why there will be a compromise (kind of like the BCS games were) and the large conferences will get the majority of what they want.

[82SiouxGuy]

Sam Houston wouldn't sue to be part of the FBS silly, I did not suggest that. Sam Houston is in FCS. Teams already in FBS would have that option if they were told that they would not longer be allowed to be at the top level of College FB. If a school was spending, has fan support, and scholarships at the same levels as teams in the top 5 conferences that were creating a separate FBS Tier, sueing would be an option. The top 5 conferences have to come up with a way to 'legally' separate themselves, and that's not easy. And yes, individual schools can, outside of scholarship, decide to spend whatever then want, whatever their program can bring in. How do you think Texas is spending $100 million on athletics? Do MN and MI spend the same on FB, Athletics? Absolutely not, they spend what their university can generate.

As for the top 5 conferences starting a new ncaa like organization . . . 2 years minimum to make that happen, and likely 5. They can threaten to do that, but really, that's the last thing they want. They would much prefer to keep BB and all sports in the NCAA.

I've explained different ways that the big 5 could separate, ways they could differentiate themselves from the smaller conferences. You just can't seem to grasp it, even though the average 12 year old could understand that they have options if they want them. If the big 5 are serious about exploring these options they probably already have people exploring those options. That would cut down on the lead time. Contracts in place will also play into when something might happen.

I'm glad that you seem to know what the big 5 conferences want. There are quite a few coaches, ADs and others from those conferences that are talking about this issue, so they must not have gotten the memo from you. But as usual, the fan from NDSU thinks he knows more about everything than the people actually involved in making the decisions. The conferences will do whatever they decide is in their best interests, whether that is keeping things the same, creating a new organization, or something in between.

[The Sicatoka]

The conferences will do whatever they decide is in their best interests, ...

<ding>

Winner.

PS - That decision will be based not on some wonderful altruistic view of college football, but, quite simply, just The Benjamins.

[The Sicatoka]

The top 5 conferences have to come up with a way to 'legally' separate themselves ...

That way is completely easy and predictable: Secede.

The NCAA is a completely voluntary association.

Secede and create "The SPATT" ... short for Sec, Pac12, Acc, big Ten, big Twelve.

[JohnboyND7]

I still don't understand how a win vs a DI non scholarship team counts towards the playoffs but a win vs a DII team that has scholarships don't. DI schools that don't have scholarships shouldn't be playing DI football.

Like others have stated, those schools do offer great academics and the "prestige" of being D-I. That said, obviously, the good DII schools can and will beat them. I see your train of thought. Either good or bad, as we now know, the DII wins now count at the very least somewhat.

Repeat after me, "The NCAA is a voluntary organization."

There is no "fix" to this situation. The final outcome will most likely come down to a solution that may or may not be negotiated. But I can assure you that any solution will favor the big 5 conferences, they are holding all of the cards.

Some folks in the past, (i actually believe this), that states are members of a voluntary organization. Some states tried to leave, the others fought them and won. I think it will be hard for the elite schools to leave. Because at the end of the day, they need to small schools to some extent. I think they'll manage to leave if they want, or will manage to get their way for the most part.

Whats important to me is that schools like NDSU, Montana, Appy, Ga So., JMU,, etc, and as much as it breaks my heart, schools like UND manage to find themselves in the right division(2nd from the top, or top if completely necessary) to be successful.

[Hayduke]

Like others have stated, those schools do offer great academics and the "prestige" of being D-I. That said, obviously, the good DII schools can and will beat them. I see your train of thought. Either good or bad, as we now know, the DII wins now count at the very least somewhat.

Some folks in the past, (i actually believe this), that states are members of a voluntary organization. Some states tried to leave, the others fought them and won. I think it will be hard for the elite schools to leave. Because at the end of the day, they need to small schools to some extent. I think they'll manage to leave if they want, or will manage to get their way for the most part.

Whats important to me is that schools like NDSU, Montana, Appy, Ga So., JMU,, etc, and as much as it breaks my heart, schools like UND manage to find themselves in the right division(2nd from the top, or top if completely necessary) to be successful.

You've got to be kidding me.

You are actually comparing the most powerful five conferences in college football potentially leaving the NCAA to form their own college sports organization to the beginnings of the United States Civil war?

That's the stupidest thing I have read on the internet in a while, and I've read LakesBison.

[Herd]

That way is completely easy and predictable: Secede.

The NCAA is a completely voluntary association.

Secede and create "The SPATT" ... short for Sec, Pac12, Acc, big Ten, big Twelve.

You & 82 seem to think that its easy to sucede, i say it would take 2 years or likely longer to plan.

You & 82 seem to think its easy to form a new FBS tier and the top 5 conf easily separate themselves within the ncaa. I say its going to be a large problem with the bottom 5 conf who will fight this tooth and nail. You & 82 talk abou your criteria. But yet you discuss from 10000 feet and avoid details.

Just a difference of opinion, and thats ok. I dont repreesent anyone else with my opinion, certainly not ndsu.

[Hayduke]

You & 82 seem to think that its easy to sucede, i say it would take 2 years or likely longer to plan.

You & 82 seem to think its easy to form a new FBS tier and the top 5 conf easily separate themselves within the ncaa. I say its going to be a large problem with the bottom 5 conf who will fight this tooth and nail. You & 82 talk abou your criteria. But yet you discuss from 10000 feet and avoid details.

Just a difference of opinion, and thats ok. I dont repreesent anyone else with my opinion, certainly not ndsu.

Sucede? Heck, I didn't know that tractor repairman spoke Spanish! I guess it would come in handy working with migrant workers on the farm.

Pues, los equipos grandes no van a ganar much sin los otros. Pero, en mi opinion, tienen mas valor a tener los otros, los equipos con mucho moneda y influencia, estar separado de los equipos pequinos, sin los mismos. Como equipos en un nivel mas bajo, como FU. Es verdad, si?

Sorry, I'm not very good with using keyboard commands in Spanish.

[82SiouxGuy]

You & 82 seem to think that its easy to sucede, i say it would take 2 years or likely longer to plan.

You & 82 seem to think its easy to form a new FBS tier and the top 5 conf easily separate themselves within the ncaa. I say its going to be a large problem with the bottom 5 conf who will fight this tooth and nail. You & 82 talk abou your criteria. But yet you discuss from 10000 feet and avoid details.

Just a difference of opinion, and thats ok. I dont repreesent anyone else with my opinion, certainly not ndsu.

A bunch of colleges just formed a new hockey conference. The practical formation would just be a bigger version of that. We aren't locked into details, because the details will be negotiated. There is no way to know how the details will look when they are done in 6 months, 2 years or 5 years.

So what if it takes 2 years or longer. This can be a long term process. And as I said, they may already be working on plans and the general public wouldn't have a clue that it was happening. The bottom conferences may fight it tooth and nail. But a change in structure would be up to the entire membership, which includes FCS schools, Division II and Division III. Those schools are going to do what is in their best interests. And even the lower level FBS schools may allow the big schools to separate in football rather than lose the March Madness money if the big 5 want to leave the NCAA.

None of us are predicting exactly what is going to happen. That is why we have no idea about the details. But there is too much smoke, something pretty large is going to change in college football in the future. We are just discussing the potential changes that may happen

[Herd]

Sucede? Heck, I didn't know that tractor repairman spoke Spanish! I guess it would come in handy working with migrant workers on the farm.

Pues, los equipos grandes no van a ganar much sin los otros. Pero, en mi opinion, tienen mas valor a tener los otros, los equipos con mucho moneda y influencia, estar separado de los equipos pequinos, sin los mismos. Como equipos en un nivel mas bajo, como FU. Es verdad, si?

Sorry, I'm not very good with using keyboard commands in Spanish.

Is "Sic" a tractor repair man? He used the word and I copied his word without looking it up. I'll standby while you continue to act like an ass and throw some insults at him too.

Do you have anything intelligent to say, or do you just wait for a typo and pounce?

[Hayduke]

Is "Sic" a tractor repair man? He used the word and I copied his word without looking it up. I'll standby while you continue to act like an ass and throw some insults at him too.

Do you have anything intelligent to say, or do you just wait for a typo and pounce?

Goodness. He used the word, "secede" which is an English word with an entirely different meaning. I thought you were using the Spanish word for having success, conjugated properly to the third person would be "sucede".

I should have known better. That Vo-Tech school doesn't extend your skills very far.

But, I am concerned about your anger management. After all, planting season must have been rough on you kids this year.

Also, "Sic" is right. The big five...and I mean BIG 5 conferences can leave the NCAA if they wanted and form their own college football organization. Whatever they formed would be considered the top level of college football for years to come. They could do it as soon as they wanted. Outside of those conferences, other college football conferences and programs are fairly irrelevant as far as the big dollar contracts and TV ratings go...

[82SiouxGuy]

That way is completely easy and predictable: Secede.

The NCAA is a completely voluntary association.

Secede and create "The SPATT" ... short for Sec, Pac12, Acc, big Ten, big Twelve.

Is "Sic" a tractor repair man? He used the word and I copied his word without looking it up. I'll standby while you continue to act like an ass and throw some insults at him too.

Do you have anything intelligent to say, or do you just wait for a typo and pounce?

Herd, are you having a little trouble with the copy and paste feature? Sic even typed it twice for you.

[The Sicatoka]

Someone really just admitted unfamiliarity with the word "secede"?

<facepalm>

[Hayduke]

Someone really just admitted unfamiliarity with the word "secede"?

<facepalm>

Apparently I'm supposed to insult you.

Let me see...

Uh, your mother dresses you funny?

Does that count?

[The Sicatoka]

Apparently I'm supposed to insult you.

Let me see...

Uh, your mother dresses you funny?

Does that count?

Weak, weak, weak. Try something like this:

You're such a pitiful soul that you are out at bars by yourself after closing, hitting on females out of your league (by your own admission), getting into alley brawls, fleeing law enforcement, and then giving Jerry Springer worthy confessionals in the back seat of a squad car.

That would be an insult.

[Hayduke]

Weak, weak, weak. Try something like this:

You're such a pitiful soul that you are out at bars by yourself after closing, hitting on females out of your league (by your own admission), getting into alley brawls, fleeing law enforcement, and then giving Jerry Springer worthy confessionals in the back seat of a squad car.

That would be an insult.

I don't know. Only the truly gullible would let something like that slide...