darell1976 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 In the most simplest terms...what does Measure #3 do?? I understand 1, 2, and 4. But 3..for religious freedom? Just what will be added or taken away if approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 In the most simplest terms...what does Measure #3 do?? I understand 1, 2, and 4. But 3..for religious freedom? Just what will be added or taken away if approved. I've heard the main reason the Catholic Church is pushing it is to prevent the government from forcing pharmacists to supply birth control. Now whether you agree with the Catholic Church on that point is a personal choice (not mine), but I worry about the other consequences of passing such a measure. I don't like the idea of religious law (and this measure gives extra power to all religions, good or bad) becoming more powerful in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I've heard the main reason the Catholic Church is pushing it is to prevent the government from forcing pharmacists to supply birth control. Now whether you agree with the Catholic Church on that point is a personal choice (not mine), but I worry about the other consequences of passing such a measure. I don't like the idea of religious law (and this measure gives extra power to all religions, good or bad) becoming more powerful in this country. I am also concerned about individuals and small groups claiming religious reasons for doing a wide variety of things that may be against the law or against the normal activities of the population. An example given has been polygamy, but I would include tax evasion, not following zoning ordinances and just about anything else. They probably wouldn't be able to get away with some of the more serious things, but fighting the issues would make a bigger problem for the court system. The biggest problem is that it is very vague and not well written, much like the property tax measure. A piece of advice for groups trying to get measures passed, find someone with some skill in crafting legislation so that people can understand the measure. Otherwise it will get a lot of No votes just because people don't want to pass something they don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 In the most simplest terms...what does Measure #3 do?? I understand 1, 2, and 4. But 3..for religious freedom? Just what will be added or taken away if approved. That's a good question... Don't we already have freed of religion based on the first amendment, I assume we did. The measure as it appears on the ballot reads:[4]This initiated constitutional measure would add a new section to Article I of the North Dakota Constitution stating, "Government may not burden a person’s or religious organization’s religious liberty. The right to act or refuse to act in a manner motivated by a sincerely held religious belief may not be burdened unless the government proves it has a compelling governmental interest in infringing the specific act or refusal to act and has used the least restrictive means to further that interest. A burden includes indirect burdens such as withholding benefits, assessing penalties, or an exclusion from programs or access to facilities." YES – means you approve the measure as stated above. NO – means you reject the measure as stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Measure 1: NO Measure 2: Yes Measure 3: NO. Measure 4:YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 As far as Measure 2 goes, I like the idea of not having a property tax. But I need a little more than "the legislature will come up with an alternative way to properly fund" essential local services like education, fire service, police service, and road maintenance, etc. Sounds more than a bit vague to me.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 As far as Measure 2 goes, I like the idea of not having a property tax. But I need a little more than "the legislature will come up with an alternative way to properly fund" essential local services like education, fire service, police service, and road maintenance, etc. Sounds more than a bit vague to me.................. It's a very poorly written piece of legislation. On top of that, they are trying to put it in the Constitution where it couldn't be changed for 7 years. If people want to eliminate property taxes they should propose a plan to take care of it. Taxes can't just go away. They need to be replaced with another revenue source or with cuts to the budget. Just saying that the legislature will take care of it doesn't cut it. Plus, I don't like the idea of turning over all funding decisions to the legislature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://www.minotdail...-Measure-2.html It still doesn't say how the tax that you pay now is going to be made up. Yes ND has a billion dollar surplus or whatever but that oil money won't last forever. I pay over 2400 bucks here in Fargo for property taxes and I would love not to pay that, but until there is something (some fund or some other revenue) that will take its place that will be enough to last at least for me another 30 years...then I have to vote NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 By the State Constitution, the State Legislature can only meet for 80 days every two years. There are about 2100 separate jurisdictions in ND that rely on property taxes to provide the services they do. 80 days is 115200 minutes (assuming working 24 hours per day!). With about 2100 separate things to fund that means each jurisdiction gets under 55 minutes every two years to argue their budgetary needs in Bismarck. Plus, this consolidated more power in the Legislature. Sorry, I don't want more power consolidated in Bismarck with guys like Al Carlson. If a group is going to show up without an implementation plan and a proposal to eliminate a tax how about next time it's the state income tax instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It still doesn't say how the tax that you pay now is going to be made up. Yes ND has a billion dollar surplus or whatever but that oil money won't last forever. I pay over 2400 bucks here in Fargo for property taxes and I would love not to pay that, but until there is something (some fund or some other revenue) that will take its place that will be enough to last at least for me another 30 years...then I have to vote NO. My property tax bill in Fargo is quickly approaching the GNP of Burundi! It is really getting ridiculous as compared to other cities in ND and in other states. I'm thinking about driving over to the Bakken with my ice auger and it's extention piece to see if I can hit oil on my own! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 My property tax bill in Fargo is quickly approaching the GNP of Burundi! It is really getting rediculous as compared to other cities in ND and in other states. I'm thinking about driving over to the Bakken with my ice auger and it's extention piece to see if I can hit oil on my own! I hope that your auger can turn 90 degrees and go sideways, because you aren't going to get a lot out of a single, small hole. It probably wouldn't pay for a room out there with the prices they are charging around Williston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I hope that your auger can turn 90 degrees and go sideways, because you aren't going to get a lot out of a single, small hole. It probably wouldn't pay for a room out there with the prices they are charging around Williston. And even if you hit, you'd better have purchased the mineral rights to the parcel you're on (and good luck with that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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