Atlas Shrugged

[GeauxSioux]

I'm not throwing this out as a topic of one political party versus another, as I don't think it matters in the long run who get elected in November. The election will only determine how fast America continues down the wrong path.

I have the had the book Atlas Shrugged on the shelf for about a year now and just now am getting around to reading it. It is 1100 pages long and I had some other books that i wanted to get through first before it, so I didn't start and stop. The weekend before last my wife and I watched Atlas Shrugged Part I on Netflix. Boy, was that an eye opener. I have since started reading the book. With responsibilities and demands of kids, my reading time has only allowed me to get through the first two chapters and, as always, the book is better than the movie.

I listen to a lot of talk radio during the day and not all of it being right wing. I catch a little bit of Rush, a lot of Neal Boortz and lot of "local" stuff from Pensacola to New Orleans. I don't hear a lot of optimism out there and the book Atlas Shrugged seems to come up quite often. I have seen different places on the internet with the statement... Atlas Shrugged was a warning, not a "how to" manual, or something of the like.

The federal government has clearly overstepped their bounds and I don't see much stopping them from continuing to do so. I read a report last week where the Senate passed a bill requiring all new cars be equipped with a "black box" and was expected to pass in the House easily. I discussed it with some of the guys at work and they didn't see a problem with it, as the bill stated that the data contained within the black box was the property of the owner of the vehicle, outside of a court order or pursuant to an investigation or inspection conducted by the Secretary of Transportation. This didn't scare them. It scares the heck out of me. I know how the government works.... incrementally.

I have heard different talk show hosts talk about their escape plan for when America falls. I have even started doing my own research. Anyone have any input?

Hey, it's the off season, I thought this would be a good time to get the opinions of others.

Also, after I get done with Atlas Shrugged does anyone have any other good books along the same lines? I read 1984 a long time ago.

[UNDBIZ]

You can watch Doomsday Preppers on National Geographic for ideas....

[82SiouxGuy]

I'm not throwing this out as a topic of one political party versus another, as I don't think it matters in the long run who get elected in November. The election will only determine how fast America continues down the wrong path.

I have the had the book Atlas Shrugged on the shelf for about a year now and just now am getting around to reading it. It is 1100 pages long and I had some other books that i wanted to get through first before it, so I didn't start and stop. The weekend before last my wife and I watched Atlas Shrugged Part I on Netflix. Boy, was that an eye opener. I have since started reading the book. With responsibilities and demands of kids, my reading time has only allowed me to get through the first two chapters and, as always, the book is better than the movie.

I listen to a lot of talk radio during the day and not all of it being right wing. I catch a little bit of Rush, a lot of Neal Boortz and lot of "local" stuff from Pensacola to New Orleans. I don't hear a lot of optimism out there and the book Atlas Shrugged seems to come up quite often. I have seen different places on the internet with the statement... Atlas Shrugged was a warning, not a "how to" manual, or something of the like.

The federal government has clearly overstepped their bounds and I don't see much stopping them from continuing to do so. I read a report last week where the Senate passed a bill requiring all new cars be equipped with a "black box" and was expected to pass in the House easily. I discussed it with some of the guys at work and they didn't see a problem with it, as the bill stated that the data contained within the black box was the property of the owner of the vehicle, outside of a court order or pursuant to an investigation or inspection conducted by the Secretary of Transportation. This didn't scare them. It scares the heck out of me. I know how the government works.... incrementally.

I have heard different talk show hosts talk about their escape plan for when America falls. I have even started doing my own research. Anyone have any input?

Hey, it's the off season, I thought this would be a good time to get the opinions of others.

Also, after I get done with Atlas Shrugged does anyone have any other good books along the same lines? I read 1984 a long time ago.

The black boxes have been around for a while in automobiles. I found this in one article:

However, EDRs have been voluntarily installed in commercial automobiles for several years. A 2006 report from The National Institute of Highway Safety showed that at least 64 percent of cars surveyed in 2005 had an EDR installed. One hundred percent of cars made by General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Suzuki came equipped with EDRs. It’s likely that my 2003 Suzuki Aerio came with an EDR that would activate should I ever be in an accident. Check you owner’s manual and you might find a section with warnings and information about the device in your car — your car’s manufacturer was required to put it there.

Despite privacy concerns over the bill, it may end up reducing privacy problems in the long run. It explicitly states that the owner of the car owns the EDR data, an issue that has been debated in the past.

Your car or truck probably already has a black box. The advantage of this law, as your co-workers pointed out, is that we now know who can control the information. That wasn't clear earlier. I would worry more about other things before I would worry about this issue.

[GeauxSioux]

The black boxes have been around for a while in automobiles. I found this in one article:

Your car or truck probably already has a black box. The advantage of this law, as your co-workers pointed out, is that we now know who can control the information. That wasn't clear earlier. I would worry more about other things before I would worry about this issue.

"Now" is the key word.

The article that I read also noted that they have been around since 2006, but that it wasn't mandatory. They will now make it mandatory. Incrementalism.

Overton Window...

At any given moment, the “window” includes a range of policies considered to be politically acceptable in the current climate of public opinion, which a politician can recommend without being considered too “extreme” or outside the mainstream to gain or keep public office. Overton arranged the spectrum on a vertical axis of “more free” and “less free” in regard to government intervention. When the window moves or expands, ideas can accordingly become more or less politically acceptable.

[GeauxSioux]

You can watch Doomsday Preppers on National Geographic for ideas....

I watched a few minutes of a show that sounds something like that. They had took storage containers and built a fortified compound out of them. They had enough food stored for 20 people for 20 years. I am not a doomsday prepper, just someone who sees a government run amuck and trampling our liberties and I'm not real happy about it.

[82SiouxGuy]

"Now" is the key word.

The article that I read also noted that they have been around since 2006, but that it wasn't mandatory. They will now make it mandatory. Incrementalism.

Overton Window...

They were around well before 2006, as a matter of fact they go back to the 1970s. By 2006 they were already in probably 65% of vehicles and estimates are closer to 85% by 2010. That number wasn't going to come down without some kind of government intervention. But as I said, now the information officially belongs to the car owner. I still believe that there are many other issues that are much more important, and I also believe that systems like Onstar are potentially more intrusive than the black box technology.

[passit_offthegoalie]

From what I've heard about Rand, I don't think I agree with her way of seeing things. I don't think anybody succeeds on their own, we humans are social animals and we're all part of something bigger. That's what has allowed us to succeed as a species.

Go live on a desert island alone and see if you become a wealthy self-made man or woman. Just my opinion. I haven't actually read the books, though, just going on what I've heard.

Have you heard of the Fountainhead by Rand? You might like that.

[fightingsioux4life]

I think Mrs. Lord of the Flies should become Ron Paul's running mate!

[GeauxSioux]

From what I've heard about Rand, I don't think I agree with her way of seeing things. I don't think anybody succeeds on their own, we humans are social animals and we're all part of something bigger. That's what has allowed us to succeed as a species.

The theme from Atlas Shrugged is that success and profit are vile and to be looked down upon. That people should all be working toward the common good, an egalitarian society. If you listen to the media and politicians of today, they talk about oil companies making "obscene profits" and how that is bad and that they should be using their profits to fund "green energy".

Go live on a desert island alone and see if you become a wealthy self-made man or woman. Just my opinion. I haven't actually read the books, though, just going on what I've heard.

Have you heard of the Fountainhead by Rand? You might like that.

No, someone living alone on a desert island would not become wealthy, as there would be no one to buy what that person would provide. But I have heard it said and I believe, that if you took all of the wealth and divided it up equally, most of the people who were successful before would end up with the money again. They are the thinkers, risk takers and doers. They would naturally rise to the top.

[Ranger]

Who is John Galt? I just completed Altlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead, and We The Living this past year. Recommended reads for all.

[passit_offthegoalie]

But I have heard it said and I believe, that if you took all of the wealth and divided it up equally, most of the people who were successful before would end up with the money again. They are the thinkers, risk takers and doers. They would naturally rise to the top.

Yeah, money is all that matters.

A tobacco company executive is more important than a good teacher because they make more money.

Fox NEWS told me so.

[GeauxSioux]

Yeah, money is all that matters.

A tobacco company executive is more important than a good teacher because they make more money.

Fox NEWS told me so.

Teachers are a necessary and important part of our society, just as the man who risks his capital to start a business. i am just tired of seeing the person who takes risks and scratches to make a successful business being penalized. I also tire of "the rich don't pay their fare share", especially when around 50% don't pay income tax. Welcome to America, the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Thanks for the book selection, Ranger.

[Irish]

Teachers are a necessary and important part of our society, just as the man who risks his capital to start a business. i am just tired of seeing the person who takes risks and scratches to make a successful business being penalized. I also tire of "the rich don't pay their fare share", especially when around 50% don't pay income tax. Welcome to America, the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Thanks for the book selection, Ranger.

Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers.

[GeauxSioux]

Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers.

Are you saying that 50% of America fits in those classifications?

Why is the number growing? In 2000 it was closer to 25% not paying federal income taxes and now we are at 50%?

[passit_offthegoalie]

Are you saying that 50% of America fits in those classifications?

Why is the number growing? In 2000 it was closer to 25% not paying federal income taxes and now we are at 50%?

It's called a recession. More people are having hard times, and not making enough to pay income taxes.

P.s. weird how in 2000 everything was going good(balanced budget, job growth), and then I believe some election happened that year. Fast forward to 2008 and the country explodes... What happened between 2000 and 2008. I can't put my finger on it.

P.s.s I don't really have a strong political opinion. I think are problems are bigger than left and right. We need to quit screwing around with all this political arguing and solve problems. Dont let the big money-backed parties divide and conquer us.

[GeauxSioux]

It's called a recession. More people are having hard times, and not making enough to pay income taxes.

P.s. weird how in 2000 everything was going good(balanced budget, job growth), and then I believe some election happened that year. Fast forward to 2008 and the country explodes... What happened between 2000 and 2008. I can't put my finger on it.

P.s.s I don't really have a strong political opinion. I think are problems are bigger than left and right. We need to quit screwing around with all this political arguing and solve problems. Dont let the big money-backed parties divide and conquer us.

We had a hotly contested presidential election in 2000. September 11, 2001 happened. The Republicans took control of both houses in 2004. They got too arrogant and lost control in 2006. Bush and congress spend waaay too much money. John McCain warns about Fannie and Freddie in Senate hearings. Barney Frank debunks McCain's assertion. Financial crisis hits. Recession begins. Republicans true to form run a dull candidate, because it is his turn and lose to an energized Obama. Both parties are to blame for the debacle that is DC.

[Taz Boy]

I always recommend the book "A Conflict of Visions" by Thomas Sowell. If you lean right, then immediately follow that book up with "The Vision of the Anointed." If you lean left, then go back and re-read the first book until you understand it.

taz

[passit_offthegoalie]

We had a hotly contested presidential election in 2000. September 11, 2001 happened. The Republicans took control of both houses in 2002. They got too arrogant and lost control in 2006. Bush and congress spend waaay too much money. John McCain warns about Fannie and Freddie in Senate hearings. Barney Frank debunks McCain's assertion. Financial crisis hits. Recession begins. Republicans true to form run a dull candidate, because it is his turn and lose to an energized Obama. Both parties are to blame for the debacle that is DC.

FYP. Agreed.

Sen. Byron Dorgan (D- ND) warned about the economic crisis in 1999, and unlike McCain, I think he hit on the main cause of the crisis.

[GeauxSioux]

FYP. Agreed.

Sen. Byron Dorgan (D- ND) warned about the economic crisis in 1999, and unlike McCain, I think he hit on the main cause of the crisis.

That was 4 years that the Republicans had control and did nothing? I had forgotten that it was that long.

Unfortunately, the fiscally responsible in DC get drowned out by the spenders. I think we can agree that Washington is corrupt and needs to be fixed. I just don't think they can or want to, which is why I asked in my first post on this topic about escape plans.

Taz, thanks for the book recommendations. I'll add them to my reading list.

[GeauxSioux]

I heard this referenced on a radio show this morning. Kind of dove tails into Atlas Shrugged.

[Taz Boy]

GeauxSioux:

Just a note that "A Conflict of Visions" is not an easy read, so you have to stick with it. But, once you glean the concepts, it is invaluable in understanding others as well as your own basis for political and social thought. Sowell covers not just what people think, but more importantly why they think it. This is the book that won over celebrated Hollywood writer David Mamet; a tough blow to the liberal establishment.

Good Luck!

[Taz Boy]

It's called a recession. More people are having hard times, and not making enough to pay income taxes. P.s. weird how in 2000 everything was going good(balanced budget, job growth), and then I believe some election happened that year. Fast forward to 2008 and the country explodes... What happened between 2000 and 2008. I can't put my finger on it. P.s.s I don't really have a strong political opinion. I think are problems are bigger than left and right. We need to quit screwing around with all this political arguing and solve problems. Dont let the big money-backed parties divide and conquer us.

Your call to stop arguing and solve problems is interesting. It begs the question, who should stop arguing, and who should solve problems? Then tell me, why those problems need a solution.

taz

[GeauxSioux]

I heard this referenced on a radio show this morning. Kind of dove tails into Atlas Shrugged.

Talk about going viral. This video was released 6 days ago and has 1,111,187 views. It's being discussed on radio talk shows and linked on DrudgeReport.

Who is John Galt?

[dlsiouxfan]

"The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair and "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck are both much better than Atlas Shrugged. Both books are inspired by what life was really like for most Americans before the reforms introduced during the New Deal. They both paint pretty stark pictures about the terrible abuses that took place when the wealthy of the country had free reign to exploit the working class without any interference from the government.

I've read Atlas Shrugged and really can't describe it as anything other than the selfish rantings of one truly selfish human being. I still find it amazing how conservatives have embraced Ayn Rand considering her views on religion and on gun control. The views she espouses throughout Atlas Shrugged are completely antithetical to those championed by Jesus Christ yet you'll hear many politicians on the right list both as being prominent influences on their ideology.

[Ranger]

"The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair and "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck are both much better than Atlas Shrugged. Both books are inspired by what life was really like for most Americans before the reforms introduced during the New Deal. They both paint pretty stark pictures about the terrible abuses that took place when the wealthy of the country had free reign to exploit the working class without any interference from the government.

I've read Atlas Shrugged and really can't describe it as anything other than the selfish rantings of one truly selfish human being. I still find it amazing how conservatives have embraced Ayn Rand considering her views on religion and on gun control. The views she espouses throughout Atlas Shrugged are completely antithetical to those championed by Jesus Christ yet you'll hear many politicians on the right list both as being prominent influences on their ideology.

What is amazing is how many whacky liberals get so bent over a work of fiction.