What would be the charge?

[darell1976]

So what would be the charge when the state files a lawsuit against the NCAA? Will it be antitrust or would be violation of state law??

[PhillySioux]

So what would be the charge when the state files a lawsuit against the NCAA? Will it be antitrust or would be violation of state law??

Im not an anti-trust attorney so I ill leave that to someone else. But to be clear, the NCAA is NOT in violation of any state law.

[darell1976]

Im not an anti-trust attorney so I ill leave that to someone else. But to be clear, the NCAA is NOT in violation of any state law.

August 1st the state law will read UND must and always be known as the Fighting Sioux and have the current logo. By telling the school you cannot have that nickname and logo they are telling UND you must break the law.

[PhillySioux]

August 1st the state law will read UND must and always be known as the Fighting Sioux and have the current logo. By telling the school you cannot have that nickname and logo they are telling UND you must break the law.

UND will comply with the law or not. The NCAA telling UND to drop the name or face consequences from the NCAA is not a violation of state law.

[darell1976]

So, UND would be breaking the law.

Good point but the NCAA would be an accessory to the charge. So UND would be robbing the bank but the NCAA would be driving the getaway car.

[PhillySioux]

Good point but the NCAA would be an accessory to the charge. So UND would be robbing the bank but the NCAA would be driving the getaway car.

I'm not following the metaphor. We can agree that UND is in a "tight spot" as Ulysses Everett McGill would say.

The NCAA come August 1 will not be running afoul of the nickname law, no matter what they do.

[darell1976]

I'm not following the metaphor. We can agree that UND is in a "tight spot" as Ulysses Everett McGill would say.

The NCAA come August 1 will not be running afoul of the nickname law, no matter what they do.

The NCAA is telling UND change the name. Even though UND knows its the law to keep the name, so if the name changes then UND, and IMO the NCAA is in violation of ND State law.

Also the NCAA cannot say well that law came after our policy well your policy came after our nickname.

[dakota fairways]

Actually, I believe the NCAA is not telling UND that they have to change to name. The NCAA is telling UND that they will not be allowed to host NCAA playoff games if the "hostile and abusive" nickname remains or wear the logo on their uniforms in the postseason. I think the state should challenge the "hostile and abusive" label. That's why the support of people like Archie Fool Bear, Eunice Davidson, the Spirit Lake Tribe and the people of Standing Rock is so important. Claiming that the nickname is hostile and abusive should be the prerogative of the Sioux people, not the NCAA (a bunch of mostly white people).

[jodcon]

The NCAA is telling UND change the name. Even though UND knows its the law to keep the name, so if the name changes then UND, and IMO the NCAA is in violation of ND State law.

Also the NCAA cannot say well that law came after our policy well your policy came after our nickname.

I might be wrong, but I think it's like this:

The NCAA is the Big Kid on the playground, and he controls what everybody plays and who they play with.

UND is the kid on the playground who has gotten under the Big Kids skin for a certain reason, along with a few other kids.

The Big Kid says to the kids in trouble, you have to get a girl to kiss you to get back in the game, except for little kid UND...he has to get 2 girls to kiss him.

The other kids find a girl who will kiss them, but UND can only find 1...not the 2 necessary to get back in the game.

Big Kid says "OK UND, since you could not do what I asked you to do, you can come back and play, but your name will have to be 'Mary' from now on.

UND says, "But I don't like the name Mary, I'm a boy!".

Big Kid says "Tough beans Mary, you either change your name to Mary or you quit the game forever".

UND says "But there is no other game, you have the only game in town".

Big Kid thinks about it and says "Tell you what Mary, you can come back and play and still be called UND, but I'm never going to let you pick the game and always make sure you get the short end of every deal forever".

UND says "But that's not fair, I'm going to tell the principal and he will make you play fair with me".

Big Kid says "Go ahead and tell, he can't tell me who to play with and how to play".

UND tells the principal, who sits at his desk and ponders his options...

The principal:

1) Cannot make the Big Kid play with UND if Big Kid doesn't want to.

2) Cannot find another game for UND to play in because Big Kid controls all the kids on the playground.

3) Cannot change UND's name to Mary because UND's Mom and Dad debated it and voted that his name would legally stay UND forever.

Principal is in a bind, Big Kid controls the game, UND/Mary is stuck in the middle.

Only one last recourse for the principal, he must decide whether to take it to the all-mighty final word...the School Board. But can they really tell Big Kid who he has to play with and how to play? It's his game, UND/Mary only wants to be a part of something that the Big Kid owns, not UND/Mary and not the School system.

Again principal sits at his desk and ponders his options...

And that is where we are at today.

As of right now, we are not living happily ever after.

[darell1976]

I might be wrong, but I think it's like this:

The NCAA is the Big Kid on the playground, and he controls what everybody plays and who they play with.

UND is the kid on the playground who has gotten under the Big Kids skin for a certain reason, along with a few other kids.

The Big Kid says to the kids in trouble, you have to get a girl to kiss you to get back in the game, except for little kid UND...he has to get 2 girls to kiss him.

The other kids find a girl who will kiss them, but UND can only find 1...not the 2 necessary to get back in the game.

Big Kid says "OK UND, since you could not do what I asked you to do, you can come back and play, but your name will have to be 'Mary' from now on.

UND says, "But I don't like the name Mary, I'm a boy!".

Big Kid says "Tough beans Mary, you either change your name to Mary or you quit the game forever".

UND says "But there is no other game, you have the only game in town".

Big Kid thinks about it and says "Tell you what Mary, you can come back and play and still be called UND, but I'm never going to let you pick the game and always make sure you get the short end of every deal forever".

UND says "But that's not fair, I'm going to tell the principal and he will make you play fair with me".

Big Kid says "Go ahead and tell, he can't tell me who to play with and how to play".

UND tells the principal, who sits at his desk and ponders his options...

The principal:

1) Cannot make the Big Kid play with UND if Big Kid doesn't want to.

2) Cannot find another game for UND to play in because Big Kid controls all the kids on the playground.

3)Cannot change UND's name to Mary because UND's Mom and Dad debated it and voted that his name would legally stay UND forever.

Principal is in a bind, Big Kid controls the game, UND/Mary is stuck in the middle.

Only one last recourse for the principal, he must decide whether to take it to the all-mighty final word...the School Board. But can they really tell Big Kid who he has to play with and how to play? It's his game, UND/Mary only wants to be a part of something that the Big Kid owns, not UND/Mary and not the School system.

Again principal sits at his desk and ponders his options...

And that is where we are at today.

As of right now, we are not living happily ever after.

That sums it up...except people in Bismarck wouldn't mind being called "Mary".

[Knickball2]

Case should have been brought as an anti-trust suit in the first place, and intellectual property rights owned by UND and infringed upon by

the NCAA. Particularly when the NCAA continues to profit from those very intellectually protected nickname and logo merchandising products. Pressure

should be stepped up and applied to the NCAA while the fire is hot from all of that organizations questionable behavior, it is corrupt, and is a for profit

organization, but continues to reap the rewards of a non-profit. Any university with the opportunity should file suit against the hypocritical behemoth. Sioux Indians, Nacotah, Dakotah, Lakotah, Indians will

always be a major theme in the history of North Dakota, just like the Bison. The NCAA doesn't get to tell us what is native to North Dakota. If the NCAA deems one native logo abusive and hostile and others

to not be abusive and hostile, the organization is itself a cause of division among Indian decendencies. What a bunch of crap from a crap organization.

[The Sicatoka]

Case should have been brought as an anti-trust suit in the first place, ...

Nope.

It should have been brought as a First Amendment case.

UND receives Federal funding and as such is subject to the US Constitution.

The majority of NCAA members are receiving Federal funding in some sort as well.

As such, being made up of members subject to the First Amendment, the NCAA should not be in the business of censorship.

The NCAA is a public actor and someone should sue them as such*, especially when they are trying to behave as a fourth branch of government.

*Yes, it's been tried before and failed, but since that last challenge the "private" Oklahoma HSAA has been declared a public actor by the Ninth Circuit because the majority of it's executive board were from public schools (subject to the Constitution).

[darell1976]

Nope.

It should have been brought as a First Amendment case.

UND receives Federal funding and as such is subject to the US Constitution.

The majority of NCAA members are receiving Federal funding in some sort as well.

As such, being made up of members subject to the First Amendment, the NCAA should not be in the business of censorship.

The NCAA is a public actor and someone should sue them as such*, especially when they are trying to behave as a fourth branch of government.

*Yes, it's been tried before and failed, but since that last challenge the "private" Oklahoma HSAA has been declared a public actor by the Ninth Circuit because the majority of it's executive board were from public schools (subject to the Constitution).

Then how come Stenjum didn't sue them on this the first time around?

[The Sicatoka]

Then how come Stenjum didn't sue them on this the first time around?

I've asked many that very question.

[PhillySioux]

Is there a copy of the settlement agreement available anywhere?

[Knickball2]

Regardless of the manner in which the suit is activated, it needs to be in Federal Court. It should contain as

many legitimate issues as can be made, lots of UND alum are attorneys. Once in Federal Court, our US

congressmen can weigh in and let's all lean on the NCAA.

[The Sicatoka]

Is there a copy of the settlement agreement available anywhere?

http://www.ag.nd.gov/NCAA/ncaa.htm

[The Sicatoka]

Back to the beginning ...

So what would be the charge accusation when the state files a lawsuit against the NCAA? Will it be antitrust or would be violation of state law??

I don't know ... but it seems we're closer to finding out.

(ND SBoHE member) Grant (Shaft) outlined what he imagines will be the next wave of legal proceedings. “I think the next step that will happen is a second prong of the legislation, and that is (that) the request will come from the legislature to the Attorney General regarding the lawsuit on the matter."

I should've bought stock in Orville Reddenbacher's company. There's lots more popcorn to be consumed before this one is over.

[darell1976]

Back to the beginning ...

I don't know ... but it seems we're closer to finding out.

I should've bought stock in Orville Reddenbacher's company. There's lots more popcorn to be consumed before this one is over.

This trial may be as long and as dramatic as the O.J. Simpson trial.

[darell1976]

http://www.ag.nd.gov/NCAA/ncaa.htm

Interesting how the SBoHE said they will get aprpoval from both tribes by 2010 in return we come off of the H&A list and not be held to postseason sanctions. Then Stenjum signed off on it while knowing the SR was going to be impossible to get their blessing. I hope this time around the SBoHE and Stenjum stays the hell out of it.

[Cratter]

Double post. (just saw this thread)

UND/The State of North Dakota should sue the NCAA for slander.

They were shocked when the NCAA

[HowBoutThemBison?]

I might be wrong, but I think it's like this:

The NCAA is the Big Kid on the playground, and he controls what everybody plays and who they play with.

UND is the kid on the playground who has gotten under the Big Kids skin for a certain reason, along with a few other kids.

The Big Kid says to the kids in trouble, you have to get a girl to kiss you to get back in the game, except for little kid UND...he has to get 2 girls to kiss him.

The other kids find a girl who will kiss them, but UND can only find 1...not the 2 necessary to get back in the game.

Big Kid says "OK UND, since you could not do what I asked you to do, you can come back and play, but your name will have to be 'Mary' from now on.

UND says, "But I don't like the name Mary, I'm a boy!".

Big Kid says "Tough beans Mary, you either change your name to Mary or you quit the game forever".

UND says "But there is no other game, you have the only game in town".

Big Kid thinks about it and says "Tell you what Mary, you can come back and play and still be called UND, but I'm never going to let you pick the game and always make sure you get the short end of every deal forever".

UND says "But that's not fair, I'm going to tell the principal and he will make you play fair with me".

Big Kid says "Go ahead and tell, he can't tell me who to play with and how to play".

UND tells the principal, who sits at his desk and ponders his options...

The principal:

1) Cannot make the Big Kid play with UND if Big Kid doesn't want to.

2) Cannot find another game for UND to play in because Big Kid controls all the kids on the playground.

3) Cannot change UND's name to Mary because UND's Mom and Dad debated it and voted that his name would legally stay UND forever.

Principal is in a bind, Big Kid controls the game, UND/Mary is stuck in the middle.

Only one last recourse for the principal, he must decide whether to take it to the all-mighty final word...the School Board. But can they really tell Big Kid who he has to play with and how to play? It's his game, UND/Mary only wants to be a part of something that the Big Kid owns, not UND/Mary and not the School system.

Again principal sits at his desk and ponders his options...

And that is where we are at today.

As of right now, we are not living happily ever after.

The NAIA is independent of the NCAA correct? As I am not a lawyer, or anything close to that, I am probably way off but couldn't the NCAA say there are other College Athletic Associations out there that may accept the University of North Dakota?

[darell1976]

The NAIA is independent of the NCAA correct? As I am not a lawyer, or anything close to that, I am probably way off but couldn't the NCAA say there are other College Athletic Associations out there that may accept the University of North Dakota?

They could but the NCAA already said that UND will NOT be kicked out of the NCAA. So why bring up the NAIA.

[jodcon]

The NAIA is independent of the NCAA correct? As I am not a lawyer, or anything close to that, I am probably way off but couldn't the NCAA say there are other College Athletic Associations out there that may accept the University of North Dakota?

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but the NCAA isn't trying to get rid of the program, just the program name. They will let them play either way, but if they play as the 'Fighting Sioux' they will face sanctions. They never wanted them to leave.

[HowBoutThemBison?]

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but the NCAA isn't trying to get rid of the program, just the program name. They will let them play either way, but if they play as the 'Fighting Sioux' they will face sanctions. They never wanted them to leave.

I think someone mentioned sueing them for anti-trust, which I THINK implies they have a sort of monopoly. I'm not super educated on the topic, I sleep in economics all the time. So that is why I brought up anti-trust, if someone who actually has knowledge on the topic of anti-trust and if UND could make a case for it, I'd be really grateful.