NCAA Meeting - On Fighting Sioux or Et Tu Brute?

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I thought it would be nice to understand what everyone thinks might be the outcome....

BobIwabuchiFan

[Fetch]

Or they accept that if we can get a long term agreement with Spirit Lake then that is more fair

& that they did not know about Standing Rock having given prior approval - the current council is not letting their members vote - so now they should not be able to hold everyone hostage

Or if we can hold a referendum & prove that the majority wants to keep the name (especially Sioux county) then that should be good enough

Or if we if we change name to UND Spirit Lake Sioux (with their approval) & maybe even share some of the proceeds from the logo, then they will back off & accept the States will & they have learned how important this is to us / & how respectful we have been & the 1st agreement was in error & unfair compared to how they have let others keep their names - they have decided to reconsider

[dakota fairways]

Don't you think that the result of the meeting will be largely a result of how Kelly, Faison & the SBoHE present their (our) case? If Kelly actually went to Douple and had him say that UND would not be accepted into the Summit until the Sioux name has been dropped, maybe he asked the NCAA to come to stare down Al Carlson & Bob Stenhejem. If, on the other hand, all the UND & North Dakota parties stand united, the outcome could actually be very positive; as in one tribe is enough with the prior pipe ceremony until Standing Rock votes - or - we'll give you more time to get the other tribe's approval.

The NCAA is coming to North Dakota to find a solution to the issue, but if the North Dakota delegation doesn't present a solid "now that this is a state law, we are going to keep our nickname" position, the NCAA will exploit that division. I just don't have a lot of faith that Kelly, Faison & the board are going to side with the legislature on this.

[darell1976]

Don't you think that the result of the meeting will be largely a result of how Kelly, Faison & the SBoHE present their (our) case? If Kelly actually went to Douple and had him say that UND would not be accepted into the Summit until the Sioux name has been dropped, maybe he asked the NCAA to come to stare down Al Carlson & Bob Stenhejem. If, on the other hand, all the UND & North Dakota parties stand united, the outcome could actually be very positive; as in one tribe is enough with the prior pipe ceremony until Standing Rock votes - or - we'll give you more time to get the other tribe's approval.

The NCAA is coming to North Dakota to find a solution to the issue, but if the North Dakota delegation doesn't present a solid "now that this is a state law, we are going to keep our nickname" position, the NCAA will exploit that division. I just don't have a lot of faith that Kelly, Faison & the board are going to side with the legislature on this.

The million dollar question. I think Kelly will tell the NCAA that their position is the same as the SBoHE and that UND should retire the name and that the transition process has begun, the NCAA will look at that as a step away from the name and side with them and put us back on the list if we use the name. Therefore a lawsuit (per state law) will be in the works no matter how Wayne Stenjum will be against it (he mucked up the settlement so I am sure he will muck up this one too).

[CAS4127]

I have heard that the NCAA has canceled this meeting, or at least has told State reps that it will not be sending a delegation to ND. No, not effing around. Has anyone hear heard the same thing. Sorry if this is repost. Link me to the other if it is please.

[darell1976]

I have heard that the NCAA has canceled this meeting, or at least has told State reps that it will not be sending a delegation to ND. No, not effing around. Has anyone hear heard the same thing. Sorry if this is repost. Link me to the other if it is please.

There is nothing on the internet about the cancelled meeting. I like how a Bisonville fan heard something. I take it as its worth....NOTHING!!!

[CAS4127]

There is nothing on the internet about the cancelled meeting. I like how a Bisonville fan heard something. I take it as its worth....NOTHING!!!

I am not trying to piss anyone off or be troll. I have heard this. If I am wrong, I apologize. I just figured Sioux fans would know more on the subject then I. What I understand is that the NCAA may not be coming to ND for the meeting, perhaps to avoid open meeting law issues. So, maybe canceled isn't the correct term, perhaps postponed or rescheduled, and to be held in Indianapolis?

[IrishSiouxFan]

Actually, I could see them canceling over our open meeting policy. Although, I have not heard anything about it.

[darell1976]

I am not trying to piss anyone off or be troll. I have heard this. If I am wrong, I apologize. I just figured Sioux fans would know more on the subject then I. What I understand is that the NCAA may not be coming to ND for the meeting, perhaps to avoid open meeting law issues. So, maybe canceled isn't the correct term, perhaps postponed or rescheduled, and to be held in Indianapolis?

Its understandable that you post your question here, but I saw the post on Bisonville and sorry but unless there is a quote and link to the source I don't believe that "I heard" is credible and I am talking about you CAS i was referring to the other Bison fan that first post this on BVille

[CAS4127]

Its understandable that you post your question here, but I saw the post on Bisonville and sorry but unless there is a quote and link to the source I don't believe that "I heard" is credible and I am talking about you CAS i was referring to the other Bison fan that first post this on BVille

I assume you meant you were "not" talking about me. And, yes, BV is where I found the information, so I came over here to see if you guys would know more, as you are more involved in the issue than I or BV (although there is a hell of a long thread on it over there as you know). That said, Darell, I know who the BV poster is that posted that tidbit, and, although I can't give you his name, he is someone who is significantly connected to those involved in the nickname meeting matter. I, myself, hope that it is merely a reschedule to Indianapolis rather than a cancelation. For UND and the State of ND, this issue just has to come to head.

[wsdSIOUXfalls]

It appears to be true. Not sure the proper way to quote the link....

http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/7930/group/homepage/

"Shaft said just shortly after University of North Dakota's President Robert Kelly informed the NCAA

of the changes to the meeting, the NCAA decided to decline the invitation to the April 22 meeting in Bismarck."

[ringneck28]

The NCAA deals behind closed doors, that is thier MO. Now the state is going to have to go to INDIANapolis and deal with them in thier offices. I think that they should have to change thier cities name and therefore the state too. If the ncaa is so politically correct, they need to move the offices to st loius or something like that.

[CAS4127]

Here's the link

[darell1976]

I assume you meant you were "not" talking about me. And, yes, BV is where I found the information, so I came over here to see if you guys would know more, as you are more involved in the issue than I or BV (although there is a hell of a long thread on it over there as you know). That said, Darell, I know who the BV poster is that posted that tidbit, and, although I can't give you his name, he is someone who is significantly connected to those involved in the nickname meeting matter. I, myself, hope that it is merely a reschedule to Indianapolis rather than a cancelation. For UND and the State of ND, this issue just has to come to head.

I didn't know he was connected in anyway. Just seemed odd how he didn't name any sources and/or links to his findings. I am read some of the other "Bison" posts on that thread and so I lumped his into that muck.

[darell1976]

The NCAA deals behind closed doors, that is thier MO. Now the state is going to have to go to INDIANapolis and deal with them in thier offices. I think that they should have to change thier cities name and therefore the state too. If the ncaa is so politically correct, they need to move the offices to st loius or something like that.

Since its closed and most likely in Indy they (the state) needs Indian reps from the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock there.

[CAS4127]

I didn't know he was connected in anyway. Just seemed odd how he didn't name any sources and/or links to his findings. I am read some of the other "Bison" posts on that thread and so I lumped his into that muck.

He couldn't, but his source was spot-on as we now know. I would assume the meeting, if it is in Indy and actually happens, will not take place until after the legislative session is over, so there is plenty of time to get those who should or must be there lined up. It will be interesting to learn more about what the NCAA has planned for the meeting, and exactly why they were not to keen on an "open" meeting--that is, if we ever find out given you correct statement that the NCAA operates in large part behind closed doors until they have made a final decision on things like violations, sanctions, fines, etc.

[wsdSIOUXfalls]

Recent letters between the Pres. Kelley, the NCAA & Goetz don't address the open meeting as the reason for their cancellation.

http://legacy.grandforksherald.com/pdfs/Fighting%20Sioux%20Nickname%20Meet%20Cancelled.pdf ( 3 letters posted out of order)

- read especially the bottom letter to Kelley from the NCAA on 4/13..

[darell1976]

Recent letters between the Pres. Kelley, the NCAA & Goetz don't address the open meeting as the reason for their cancellation.

http://legacy.grandforksherald.com/pdfs/Fighting%20Sioux%20Nickname%20Meet%20Cancelled.pdf ( 3 letters posted out of order)

- read especially the bottom letter to Kelley from the NCAA on 4/13..

Sounds like Douple.....the NCAA cancels the meeting because we didn't resolve the nickname dispute. Guess what NCAA....YOU STARTED THIS CRAP WITH YOUR DAMN POLICY!!!!

[CAS4127]

Recent letters between the Pres. Kelley, the NCAA & Goetz don't address the open meeting as the reason for their cancellation.

http://legacy.grandforksherald.com/pdfs/Fighting%20Sioux%20Nickname%20Meet%20Cancelled.pdf ( 3 letters posted out of order)

- read especially the bottom letter to Kelley from the NCAA on 4/13..

It appears as though the NCAA figured out what many have said from day one about Carlson's actual agenda behind this bill--a power struggle between him/the legislature and the SBoHE. If I were a Sioux fan, I would not be happy with Carlson, and, whether a Sioux fan or not, would never vote for him again. He has used a very sensitive and controversial issue to promote his politcal ideals--that just effin BS, but typical of a true "politician".

[darell1976]

It appears as though the NCAA figured out what many have said from day one about Carlson's actual agenda behind this bill--a power struggle between him/the legislature and the SBoHE. If I were a Sioux fan, I would not be happy with Carlson, and, whether a Sioux fan or not, would never vote for him again. He has used a very sensitive and controversial issue to promote his politcal ideals--that just effin BS, but typical of a true "politician".

Sounds like the state will be headed towards a lawsuit since I don't see the NCAA giving in.

[darell1976]

I say bring it on. We now have a state law on our side. The NCAA has a ridiculously overinfalted opinion of their own self-importance if they're delusional enough to think that what they want trumps following state law.

Is the NCAA cancelling this whole thing because we have a new state law but Kelley and the SBoHE still want to go ahead with the retirement? Is that what is meant by we didn't resolve this nickname issue? If thats the case the Law goes into effect August 1st, and by law Kelley and the SBoHE cannot retire the name. So would they meet on August 1st??

[HowBoutThemBison?]

(cricket cricket)

[UND Fan]

It was a given that as soon as the NCAA learned that we would have a "cast of thousands" meeting with the two of them and that the meeting would be "open", they would cancel the meeting. I am a strong "Sioux" supporter but I don't blame them for doing so. They feel they are in the driver's seat in this situation because of the agreement of 2-3 years ago. They aren't going to do anything that will put themselves in an awkward position in an open meeting. We should have known that as soon as the open meeting was brought up and before everyone and their brother was invited to attend!

[CAS4127]

It was a given that as soon as the NCAA learned that we would have a "cast of thousands" meeting with the two of them and that the meeting would be "open", they would cancel the meeting. I am a strong "Sioux" supporter but I don't blame them for doing so. They feel they are in the driver's seat in this situation because of the agreement of 2-3 years ago. They aren't going to do anything that will put themselves in an awkward position in an open meeting. We should have known that as soon as the open meeting was brought up and before everyone and their brother was invited to attend!

This quote from the NCAA email fairly and clearly seems to state their position:

"The NCAA and the University of North Dakota have agreed to the parameters of the NCAA's Native American mascot policy and we remain ready to assist the institution in it's implementation."

And, is Kelley questioning whether UND will be able to remain in the NCAA with this statement/question in his letter to Goetz:

"UND will need clarification [from the NCAA] concerning the relationship the University will have with the NCAA regarding the impact of HB1263 on the 2007 settlement agreement".

Not sure what he is getting at there.

[darell1976]

This quote from the NCAA email fairly and clearly seems to state their position:

"The NCAA and the University of North Dakota have agreed to the parameters of the NCAA's Native American mascot policy and we remain ready to assist the institution in it's implementation."

And, is Kelley questioning whether UND will be able to remain in the NCAA with this statement/question in his letter to Goetz:

"UND will need clarification [from the NCAA] concerning the relationship the University will have with the NCAA regarding the impact of HB1263 on the 2007 settlement agreement".

Not sure what he is getting at there.

I think he is saying what is going to happen August 1st when the state law takes over and bans Kelley from retiring the name.