so is this the start

[Fetch]

of the pissin fight so many of you have stressed out about ?

http://plainsdaily.com/entry/university_of_north_dakota_to_hold_firm_on_boards_direction_despite_legisla/

http://plainsdaily.com/entry/legislator_calls_for_resignation/

Backes just proves his true colors

I say bring it on

I support desolving the SBOHE

[RobPort]

For what it's worth, House Majority Leader Al Carlson has introduced a constitutional amendment to reform the board and make it accountable to the governor.

I wrote about it here:

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/north-dakota-house-considers-constitutional-amendment-to-abolish-board-of-higher-education/

I would suggest contacting your legislators and telling them to support it.

[Chewey]

For what it's worth, House Majority Leader Al Carlson has introduced a constitutional amendment to reform the board and make it accountable to the governor.

I wrote about it here:

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/north-dakota-house-considers-constitutional-amendment-to-abolish-board-of-higher-education/

I would suggest contacting your legislators and telling them to support it.

Very well done. Let's hope it passes.

[dakotadan]

I support desolving the SBOHE

May I ask why? And how will this better our institutions of higher learning?

[sf340flier]

May I ask why? And how will this better our institutions of higher learning?

I know everyone is ticked off at the SBOE over the logo issue (I know I am), but are we all really willing to shell the whole system over this one issue? Most states have learned that mixing politics between state schools and the governor or legislation is a bad practice.

Here's one example: say both UND and NDSU wanted to create a new program covering the same degree (let's say a veterinary program). Everyone would agree there would only have to be one program in the state (to save money), but who gets it? The institution that has the most resources and expertise to pull it off? Or, the institution that happens to have the most alumni in the current state legislature?

Again, maybe the SBOE President should resign, maybe there needs to be more oversight and accountability...no argument here. But please read the bill! In effect, the day-to-day operations of the colleges and universities in this state would be turned over to a very political and very bureaucratic process. Some years would be great for the Sioux, some years would be horrible. In fact, years ago, the system was setup this way and it really didn't work.

[lomackman]

For what it's worth, House Majority Leader Al Carlson has introduced a constitutional amendment to reform the board and make it accountable to the governor.

I wrote about it here:

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/north-dakota-house-considers-constitutional-amendment-to-abolish-board-of-higher-education/

I would suggest contacting your legislators and telling them to support it.

You are also the kind of person who thinks Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, and Sharron Angle are women with something to say and should be listened to.

[sioux7>5]

You are also the kind of person who thinks Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, and Sharron Angle are women with something to say and should be listened to.

They are women that have something to say, just because you might disagree with them does not matter. Sarah Palin has power and influence. She has supporters so yes she should be listened to. I suppose you think Obama should be listened to? You should and then use your own mind to decide what you want to believe, either Obama or Palin. Personally I think they are both idiots.

[lomackman]

They are women that have something to say, just because you might disagree with them does not matter. Sarah Palin has power and influence. She has supporters so yes she should be listened to. I suppose you think Obama should be listened to? You should and then use your own mind to decide what you want to believe, either Obama or Palin. Personally I think they are both idiots.

Palin's power and influence is only over the people that are so simple minded they may belong in a group home.

[jimdahl]

Palin's power and influence is only over the people that are so simple minded they may belong in a group home.

Leave the unrelated politics out of this forum, please.

[The Whistler]

I know everyone is ticked off at the SBOE over the logo issue (I know I am), but are we all really willing to shell the whole system over this one issue? Most states have learned that mixing politics between state schools and the governor or legislation is a bad practice.

Here's one example: say both UND and NDSU wanted to create a new program covering the same degree (let's say a veterinary program). Everyone would agree there would only have to be one program in the state (to save money), but who gets it? The institution that has the most resources and expertise to pull it off? Or, the institution that happens to have the most alumni in the current state legislature?

Again, maybe the SBOE President should resign, maybe there needs to be more oversight and accountability...no argument here. But please read the bill! In effect, the day-to-day operations of the colleges and universities in this state would be turned over to a very political and very bureaucratic process. Some years would be great for the Sioux, some years would be horrible. In fact, years ago, the system was setup this way and it really didn't work.

How do you think that the current system has removed politics from the equation. The BOHE is highly political, the only difference is that their politics are operating without the countervailing pressure of what the public wants.

I think we are far worse the way things are now. The colleges don't seem to have the students on their list of priorities. Despite massive increases in public support and tuition the schools are comparing themselves to starving children.

[lomackman]

Leave the unrelated politics out of this forum, please.

Read the sayanythingblog and then say to keep politics out of it. Heck that is what this thread is about. If the BOHE had gone the way you people wanted them to you would be singing their praises.

[RobPort]

I know everyone is ticked off at the SBOE over the logo issue (I know I am), but are we all really willing to shell the whole system over this one issue? Most states have learned that mixing politics between state schools and the governor or legislation is a bad practice.

Here's one example: say both UND and NDSU wanted to create a new program covering the same degree (let's say a veterinary program). Everyone would agree there would only have to be one program in the state (to save money), but who gets it? The institution that has the most resources and expertise to pull it off? Or, the institution that happens to have the most alumni in the current state legislature?

Again, maybe the SBOE President should resign, maybe there needs to be more oversight and accountability...no argument here. But please read the bill! In effect, the day-to-day operations of the colleges and universities in this state would be turned over to a very political and very bureaucratic process. Some years would be great for the Sioux, some years would be horrible. In fact, years ago, the system was setup this way and it really didn't work.

If you don't want the schools to be susceptible to politics then privatizr them. Otherwise, they are the peoples institutions and should be directly accountable to the representatives of the people.

[lomackman]

If you don't want the schools to be susceptible to politics then privatizr them. Otherwise, they are the peoples institutions and should be directly accountable to the representatives of the people.

Is this the way you spell in your blog?

[RobPort]

Is this the way you spell in your blog?

Sorry, posting from my phone.

[lomackman]

Sorry, posting from my phone.

That would explain it.

[ChemE]

In June 2006 the ND Board of higher education voted 8-0 to authorize a lawsuit challenging the NCAA's position on the Fighting Sioux nickname. They made it clear that this would be funded exclusively with donated funds. Many of us responded--$885,000 was raised.

Rather than supporting the lawsuit, or even the settlement agreement, the board made a 180 degree switch in their position--totally betraying those who, in good faith, contributed to the lawsuit THEY authorized.

To cap it off, the board president testifies before the senate committee that the nickname bill should be defeated, claiming that THE STATE has already spent over $800,000 litigating this issue.

I'm not sure that dissolving the SBoHE is a good idea. Recent actions of the current board, however, have been disgraceful. Donors to the litigation fund have every reason to be outraged by the board's betrayal, and all of us should be concerned about the board president's misleading testimony.

[RobPort]

I'm not sure that dissolving the SBoHE is a good idea.

Well to be perfectly clear, the constitutional amendment wouldn't dissolve the SBHE. It would combine it with the Department of Public Instruction (K - 12 education) and make the director of the whole shebang serve at the pleasure of the governor.

We'd still have a board of people giving input to the director, but ultimately the person in charge would be the governor. Which would be a change from the status quo where the board is accountable to...nobody.

[sf340flier]

How do you think that the current system has removed politics from the equation. The BOHE is highly political, the only difference is that their politics are operating without the countervailing pressure of what the public wants.

I think we are far worse the way things are now. The colleges don't seem to have the students on their list of priorities. Despite massive increases in public support and tuition the schools are comparing themselves to starving children.

Okay then, there you have it...politics will always be involved so let's turn everything over to the legislature because they voted the way we all wanted on this one issue. I'm telling you all, as ticked off as we all are, dismantling the structure because we don't like the people who are currently on the SBOE could lead to long-term dire consequences.

I really dislike our US Congress right now, they have overspent and have made horrible decisions in recent years. Should we dissolve the US constitution and turn everything over to the President because we don't like their decisions? Or should we just get the right people in Congress?

Likewise, let's look at replacing and recalling the folks on the Board rather than torching the whole system...I really think we are all forgetting how things used to be when the legislature controlled the SBOE...was not pretty!

[The Whistler]

Okay then, there you have it...politics will always be involved so let's turn everything over to the legislature because they voted the way we all wanted on this one issue. I'm telling you all, as ticked off as we all are, dismantling the structure because we don't like the people who are currently on the SBOE could lead to long-term dire consequences.

I really dislike our US Congress right now, they have overspent and have made horrible decisions in recent years. Should we dissolve the US constitution and turn everything over to the President because we don't like their decisions? Or should we just get the right people in Congress?

Likewise, let's look at replacing and recalling the folks on the Board rather than torching the whole system...I really think we are all forgetting how things used to be when the legislature controlled the SBOE...was not pretty!

And things are far worse now. The entire system is drifting into an entitlement for the administrators and faculty leaving the students behind.

And your point comparing this to dissolving the US constitution to dissolving the BOHE is just plain wrong. The difference is that in the case of he US Constitution the people have a chance to correct the mistakes of the congress. In fact last fall the voters completely changed over the House and made big inroads to the Senate. Now while I was happy about that change, not everyone here will be but at least everyone will admit that it's possible to change the direction of the government.

[RobPort]

Okay then, there you have it...politics will always be involved so let's turn everything over to the legislature because they voted the way we all wanted on this one issue. I'm telling you all, as ticked off as we all are, dismantling the structure because we don't like the people who are currently on the SBOE could lead to long-term dire consequences.

I really dislike our US Congress right now, they have overspent and have made horrible decisions in recent years. Should we dissolve the US constitution and turn everything over to the President because we don't like their decisions? Or should we just get the right people in Congress?

Likewise, let's look at replacing and recalling the folks on the Board rather than torching the whole system...I really think we are all forgetting how things used to be when the legislature controlled the SBOE...was not pretty!

Well, the current formulation of the SBHE (which if you look at the state constitution sets it up as a 4th branch of government not terribly unlike the judicial branch) was put in place to isolate the university system from "politics." What we've seen since from the higher ed leaders is a push toward empire building. They measure their success by the number of buildings they build and the number of students they pack into them like so many cattle.

Like it or not, politics is democracy. No other state in the union has a higher education bureaucracy that is this detached from the body politic and their arrogance on the Sioux nickname is just one example of the consequences for that. Other examples would be that the university system is telling us they're underfunded despite a 64% increase in appropriations since the 2003 - 2005 legislative session and a 38% increase in tuition revenues. Where is all that money going? NDSU alone has seen a 96% increase in total appropriations since the 2003 - 2005 session, and yet Brescani tells us his university is starving.

And right now the only tool the governor/legislature has to address these problems is to cut off funding. That's hardly the most productive solution.

Personally, I'd like to see the schools privatized and - if we're to subsidize higher education at all - we fund the students with vouchers and let them choose which schools get the money. But since that's likely a policy pipe dream, at the very least we could put what we have now under the direct control of someone who is elected by the people.

[sf340flier]

And things are far worse now. The entire system is drifting into an entitlement for the administrators and faculty leaving the students behind.

And your point comparing this to dissolving the US constitution to dissolving the BOHE is just plain wrong. The difference is that in the case of he US Constitution the people have a chance to correct the mistakes of the congress. In fact last fall the voters completely changed over the House and made big inroads to the Senate. Now while I was happy about that change, not everyone here will be but at least everyone will admit that it's possible to change the direction of the government.

Not so sure about the entitlement concept, at least with the employees. Faculty/staff salaries/benefits in ND are still way below the national average and below their private sector counterparts (unlike states like Wisconsin and Indiana). I'm okay with that, but I don't know if I would equate the system with an entitlement (like medicaid, social security, etc.). Also, over the last several surveys, I believe I read that the students were either satisfied or very satisfied with their state institutions in North Dakota (but I may be wrong on that).

The last point I would leave you with is the following question: Did you feel the same way about the system before the whole nickname fiasco? I think if the answer to this question is "no," then I would offer that this is mostly being fueled by your rightful anger over how this logo issued was handled.

No matter what though, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[The Whistler]

Not so sure about the entitlement concept, at least with the employees. Faculty/staff salaries/benefits in ND are still way below the national average and below their private sector counterparts (unlike states like Wisconsin and Indiana). I'm okay with that, but I don't know if I would equate the system with an entitlement (like medicaid, social security, etc.). Also, over the last several surveys, I believe I read that the students were either satisfied or very satisfied with their state institutions in North Dakota (but I may be wrong on that).

The last point I would leave you with is the following question: Did you feel the same way about the system before the whole nickname fiasco? I think if the answer to this question is "no," then I would offer that this is mostly being fueled by your rightful anger over how this logo issued was handled.

No matter what though, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Reasonable people can disagree.

My problem with the system has come about with the overwhelming greed that the system has showed in the last three legislative session. Prior to the last session the Board of Higher Education demanded a 60% increase in funding.

And the more we give them the more they complain about being starved.

Prior to that the tuition increases were unconscionable.

Now the nickname debate is only related to that in that the Board of Higher Education ONLY cares what the administration says. They have no regard for the public and barely even care for the students.

Of course that's my opinion, but I believe the facts support it.

[FargoBison]

Well, the current formulation of the SBHE (which if you look at the state constitution sets it up as a 4th branch of government not terribly unlike the judicial branch) was put in place to isolate the university system from "politics." What we've seen since from the higher ed leaders is a push toward empire building. They measure their success by the number of buildings they build and the number of students they pack into them like so many cattle.

Like it or not, politics is democracy. No other state in the union has a higher education bureaucracy that is this detached from the body politic and their arrogance on the Sioux nickname is just one example of the consequences for that. Other examples would be that the university system is telling us they're underfunded despite a 64% increase in appropriations since the 2003 - 2005 legislative session and a 38% increase in tuition revenues. Where is all that money going? NDSU alone has seen a 96% increase in total appropriations since the 2003 - 2005 session, and yet Brescani tells us his university is starving.

And right now the only tool the governor/legislature has to address these problems is to cut off funding. That's hardly the most productive solution.

Personally, I'd like to see the schools privatized and - if we're to subsidize higher education at all - we fund the students with vouchers and let them choose which schools get the money. But since that's likely a policy pipe dream, at the very least we could put what we have now under the direct control of someone who is elected by the people.

You know why NDSU had a huge funding increase? The school was greatly underfunded when compared to its peers. NDSU and UND are engines of growth which is a concept western legislators in the house can't grasp. I shudder to think what some might to do with more control.

I won't say the SBoHE is above reform, things clearly need to change but this idea supported by Carlson is idiotic. You don't put Higher Education and k-12 in the same system, they should be separate. That in itself is a recipe for disaster.

You need to remember the reason we have the SBoHE is because legislators meddled with higher ed so much that NDSU at one point lost its accreditation.

[RobPort]

You know why NDSU had a huge funding increase? The school was greatly underfunded when compared to its peers.

That's certainly the talking point we hear coming from NDSU's leadership, but it doesn't pass the smell test for two reasons.

First, the "peer university" metric is a poor one. Each university has its own unique set of circumstances when it comes to educating students. Just because another state increases funding to one of its universities doesn't automatically mean we have to increase ours. We should care about what NDSU really needs, not what some other university gets.

Second, and more importantly though, is the fact that North Dakota spends more per capita on higher education than any other state in the nation. According to research done by Legislative Council, higher education spending is 18.3% of our state budget.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/higher-education-spending-is-18-3-of-north-dakotas-budget/

That's a higher portion than Minnesota, Colorado, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska and Idaho (if you want to talk about peers). And which university gets the lion's share of that funding? NDSU.

Though don't get me wrong. This isn't a NDSU problem. This is a higher education problem. They get too much money, and they spend it stupidly.

[PhillySioux]

That's certainly the talking point we hear coming from NDSU's leadership, but it doesn't pass the smell test for two reasons.

First, the "peer university" metric is a poor one. Each university has its own unique set of circumstances when it comes to educating students. Just because another state increases funding to one of its universities doesn't automatically mean we have to increase ours. We should care about what NDSU really needs, not what some other university gets.

Second, and more importantly though, is the fact that North Dakota spends more per capita on higher education than any other state in the nation. According to research done by Legislative Council, higher education spending is 18.3% of our state budget.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/higher-education-spending-is-18-3-of-north-dakotas-budget/

That's a higher portion than Minnesota, Colorado, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska and Idaho (if you want to talk about peers). And which university gets the lion's share of that funding? NDSU.

Though don't get me wrong. This isn't a NDSU problem. This is a higher education problem. They get too much money, and they spend it stupidly.

Before I take that statement at face value from you, what experience do you have running large organizations with multiple stakeholders?