Too many out of staters?

[PhillySioux]

Shockingly, this bill comes to us from a legislator in a town near no state border with no significant state university presence. And who are the people getting pissed that we educate too many non-residents?

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/306272/

[Ole in MSP]

Shockingly, this bill comes to us from a legislator in a town near no state border with no significant state university presence. And who are the people getting pissed that we educate too many non-residents?

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/306272/

If the state of ND wants to save money on education then close schools like Mayville State and the 2 year colleges. Most are smaller than many of the state high schools. The incremental cost to keep them open in a small state like ND is absurd. Without the out of state attendees at the larger 4 year schools there would not be enough critical mass to keep them all open either, which would severely hamper the state economically for lack of qualified workers. The state already has one of the lowest college grad % of population in the country at 25.6%.

[coach daddy]

Shockingly, this bill comes to us from a legislator in a town near no state border with no significant state university presence. And who are the people getting pissed that we educate too many non-residents?

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/306272/

I believe this guys issue isn't so much with the "out-of-staters" coming to school here as much as it is the number of them who come in on tuition waivers which means their time here is being paid for by the state/college they attend. He might want to check BSC and see how many waivers they actually give before he worries too much about UND and NDSU.

[The Rik]

Sorry this is my first post, have been reading them for a few years to keep up on things since I live out of state and had to reply to this article.

I'm pretty sure I'm in the bucket of "out-of-state students" that receives in-state tuition rates (because I am a Veteran). I am taking DEDP classes and UND and am being charged extra fees to be able to take them on-line at the rate of $170 per credit hour. I am taking just one 3 credit class this semester and my total bill is over $1400. So don't tell me that I'm ripping off North Dakota taxpayers.

If North Dakota doesn't want my money, so be it (well, my employers money, they only cover up to $6000 per year ). I can get a degree somewhere else at a lot less cost but I would rather graduate from my hometown college.

[star2city]

Sorry this is my first post, have been reading them for a few years to keep up on things since I live out of state and had to reply to this article.

I'm pretty sure I'm in the bucket of "out-of-state students" that receives in-state tuition rates (because I am a Veteran). I am taking DEDP classes and UND and am being charged extra fees to be able to take them on-line at the rate of $170 per credit hour. I am taking just one 3 credit class this semester and my total bill is over $1400. So don't tell me that I'm ripping off North Dakota taxpayers.

If North Dakota doesn't want my money, so be it (well, my employers money, they only cover up to $6000 per year ). I can get a degree somewhere else at a lot less cost but I would rather graduate from my hometown college.

Email this post to the legislators on the committee reviewing that bill.

[ScottM]

Considering that North Dakota's biggest "export" tends to be its educated youth, I think their proposal is pretty myopic. Restricting non-resident students, or making it more expensive for them, is no way to make the universities or the state more appealing to anybody, especially if you're trying to expand the economic base beyond oil and ag.

[WYOBISONMAN]

It is pretty damn stunning some of the garbage that can come out of these legislatures in small states. It really has nothing to due with party politics, an urban/rural split. It is just flat ass stupidity.

[PhillySioux]

The main bill was defeated in the house today. The scary thing is that 38 house members voted for it!

[The Whistler]

What do our Universities exist for? I would say they should exist to give OUR kids the best education we can give them to prepare them in whatever they choose to do.

[tho0505]

What do our Universities exist for? I would say they should exist to give OUR kids the best education we can give them to prepare them in whatever they choose to do.

To leave the state for higher paying jobs. Really it doesn't matter if ND kids are getting educated at ND schools or MN kids are getting educated at ND schools. Ulitmately the goal is to keep kids in ND.

The worry shouldn't be about where the kids are from, but where they go after UND.

[The Whistler]

To leave the state for higher paying jobs. Really it doesn't matter if ND kids are getting educated at ND schools or MN kids are getting educated at ND schools. Ulitmately the goal is to keep kids in ND.

The worry shouldn't be about where the kids are from, but where they go after UND.

I think our jobs will fill up just fine without subsidies to out of state students, but a compromise would be to rebate somebody's ND tuition if they stay in state. Paying a MN kid to go to school here and leave as soon as they graduate is bad economics.

For my two cents I don't have a problem with my neighbors kid leaving after school. I wish them the best in what ever they decide.

[PhillySioux]

I think our jobs will fill up just fine without subsidies to out of state students, but a compromise would be to rebate somebody's ND tuition if they stay in state. Paying a MN kid to go to school here and leave as soon as they graduate is bad economics.

For my two cents I don't have a problem with my neighbors kid leaving after school. I wish them the best in what ever they decide.

But our Universities will not fill up. UND's North Dakota resident undergraduate population is a mere 6500, less than half of undergrads.

[The Whistler]

But our Universities will not fill up. UND's North Dakota resident undergraduate population is a mere 6500, less than half of undergrads.

I'm not against out of state students. I'm just don't see the advantage of paying for their education. Also don't you think the amount of money it costs us to educate the out of stater's.

Of course if we had a true reciprocity that was a breakeven I'd be more than happy to expand the opportunity for North Dakota kids.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

I think our jobs will fill up just fine without subsidies to out of state students, but a compromise would be to rebate somebody's ND tuition if they stay in state. Paying a MN kid to go to school here and leave as soon as they graduate is bad economics.

For my two cents I don't have a problem with my neighbors kid leaving after school. I wish them the best in what ever they decide.

Don"t you want good candidates for these possitions? There are great ND candidates, but also great out of state people as well.

I have a friend from the Twin Cities and he would VERY much prefer to be in ND after living here at UND. As we call them, the Sh*t*es, are not the greatest place to live, but when you have student loans, a car payment and you worked in the Union to help get through school, you need to CYA.

If he could make 75% of what he makes in the sh*t*es in ND he would be here. For the right people, hunting/fishing/ATV/Snowmobile/lakes ND is what they are looking for. The problem is, we are less than a "fly over" state, we can barely get a "drive thru" without encouraging. We cannot get students here unless we encourage them to come take a look around and ND is still one of the best values for the $ with encouragement.

I lived just south of the NDSU campus during school(I didn't attend NDSU). No one can tell me you cannot find great looking/in or out of state women who want these things too, so don't rebutle that, 'it is a guy only' populus. People need incentive to come in the first place.

[tho0505]

I'm not against out of state students. I'm just don't see the advantage of paying for their education. Also don't you think the amount of money it costs us to educate the out of stater's.

Of course if we had a true reciprocity that was a breakeven I'd be more than happy to expand the opportunity for North Dakota kids.

When out of state tuition is double that of instate, it deters students from going to that school. Smart out of staters will just go to UMD/UM/SCSU/Mankato. Can UND really fill classes if they have unreasonable tuition for out of state students?

[Cratter]

Shouldn't all students pay the same?

Doesn't it cost the same to teach a student from North Dakota as it does from California?

[jodcon]

When out of state tuition is double that of instate, it deters students from going to that school. Smart out of staters will just go to UMD/UM/SCSU/Mankato. Can UND really fill classes if they have unreasonable tuition for out of state students?

Seems like people will pony up and pay for out-of-state tuition if their kid really wants to go there, I looked at the U of Montana numbers out of curiosity and it says for the fall 2010 semester 75% were Montana kids, 20% were out-of-state kids, and 5 % were WUE kids which is a scholarship program for out-of-state kids which knocks about $10k a year off of tuition cost if they are fortunate enough to receive a WUE scholarship.

Cost of 2 semesters tuition and fees:

Montana Residents 5586.

Out-of-State 18834.

WUE 8198.

So basing these numbers on their 2010 fall enrollment of 15642 you get:

Montana 11732 students @ 5586 = $65,534,952.

Out-of-State 3128 students @ 18834 = $58,912,752.

WUE 782 students @ 8198 = $6,410,836.

Bottom line...the 25% representing out-of-state students, including both full-paying and WUE, pay almost the exact same tuition as the 75% Montana students, so I guess the answer is as long as there are parents willing to bite the bullet and pay the price for their kids to go to out-of-state schools (and apparently there are), the schools will be more than happy to take them, because like everything else in this world...it is a $$$$$$$ thing.

After looking at this stuff I'm sure glad my kid decided to stay in Montana for college.

[The Whistler]

Shouldn't all students pay the same?

Doesn't it cost the same to teach a student from North Dakota as it does from California?

It costs the same. The instate tuition is subsidized by the taxpayers who pay this to help our own kids. Why shouldn't the Californians pay what it costs to educate their own kids.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help out the neighbors kids. I just don't think we can afford the huge subsidies that it takes to educate everyone else's.

505 said:

Can UND really fill classes if they have unreasonable tuition for out of state students?

I don't think we should make money on the out of state students. They should just pay what it actually costs for their education.

[The Whistler]

Don"t you want good candidates for these possitions? There are great ND candidates, but also great out of state people as well.

Can we only hire people that attended UND or NDSU? I don't think so.

[Siouxbooster#33]

My humble opinion:

The problem is not resident vs. non-resident tuition. The problem is the rising cost of a college education. I am personally tired of the same tripe: make college more accessible and afordable by offering more loans, or access to loans.

The Tuition is Too Damned High.

The problem is that in-state tuition is still too high, let alone non-resident tuition. Its a shell-game. Don't look at our outrageous costs, our outrageous budget, or our outrageous employment-tenure system. Its a sham.

And its a nationwide sham.

They have a $200-million Spirit Campaign, along with always-incraesing-beyond-the-rate-of-inflation tuition, along with tax subsidies, along with all the money from research grants, along with the endowment, along with all the in-place scholarships and chairs, along with all the random fees, along with making a killing on room and board. And yet they still come crawling looking for cigarette money (for instance).

They never make cuts, and the students take in on the chin in the form of huge piles of debt. Or their families go into debt. The few who are able to pay for college directly from the checking account are obscenely rare.

As I said, this is not a UND problem, or a North Dakota problem, it is nationwide.

So now some yahoos want to spout off about non-resident tuition breaks. Big deal. Its a sham.

The Tuition is Too Damned High.

[PhillySioux]

My humble opinion:

The problem is not resident vs. non-resident tuition. The problem is the rising cost of a college education. I am personally tired of the same tripe: make college more accessible and afordable by offering more loans, or access to loans.

The Tuition is Too Damned High.

The problem is that in-state tuition is still too high, let alone non-resident tuition. Its a shell-game. Don't look at our outrageous costs, our outrageous budget, or our outrageous employment-tenure system. Its a sham.

And its a nationwide sham.

They have a $200-million Spirit Campaign, along with always-incraesing-beyond-the-rate-of-inflation tuition, along with tax subsidies, along with all the money from research grants, along with the endowment, along with all the in-place scholarships and chairs, along with all the random fees, along with making a killing on room and board. And yet they still come crawling looking for cigarette money (for instance).

They never make cuts, and the students take in on the chin in the form of huge piles of debt. Or their families go into debt. The few who are able to pay for college directly from the checking account are obscenely rare.

As I said, this is not a UND problem, or a North Dakota problem, it is nationwide.

So now some yahoos want to spout off about non-resident tuition breaks. Big deal. Its a sham.

The Tuition is Too Damned High.

Using UND as an example, what kind of things should a national research University cut?

[Cratter]

It costs the same. The instate tuition is subsidized by the taxpayers who pay this to help our own kids. Why shouldn't the Californians pay what it costs to educate their own kids.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help out the neighbors kids. I just don't think we can afford the huge subsidies that it takes to educate everyone else's.

505 said:

I don't think we should make money on the out of state students. They should just pay what it actually costs for their education.

I guessing every state has a resident/nonresident tuition fee thats probably double or triple. Why not have reciprocity for the whole country?

Isn't the whole resident/nonresident thing a joke?

You want instate UND tuition? Get your apartment and go get your ND drivers license (or if you wanna do it legally move to ND for twelve month. In essence you would be getting "paid" approximately $9,000 for that year. ($15,000-$6,000) You could even be taking online classes during that time (I am guessing there is no resident/nonresidence for that.)

Don't out of staters get instate tuition after a year usually anyways? (cause they then essentially become ND residents?)

[Siouxbooster#33]

Using UND as an example, what kind of things should a national research University cut?

Hmmmm, perhaps start with the President's pay.

Move on to cutting 25% of all salaried administration officials.

Reduce the pay of all remaining administrators, who earn over $100K, by 10%.

Reduce the cost of room and board by 50%. How is it poosible that the same dorm room, with the same food, costs significantly more today than it did 15 years ago? This move would be a tremendous advantage to students, because it would allow / encourage on-campus living, at greatly reduced rates compared to off-campus living. This equals lower loan amounts and reduces the risk of loan abuse and/or the serious problem of undergraduate credit card abuse.

I understand, and can anticipate the response: this will hamstring UND's ability to attract high-end talent at the upper leadership levels. I disagree.

I also believe this is a nationwide problem, wherein the cost of education is rising, and those who are not independantly wealthy are greatly hamstrung with enormous debt. Meaning, of course, that those who come from independantly wealthy families have the continuing advantage of financial freedom -- while those who are saddled with huge loans and other debt must live and work in particular areas, making sure that they are paid enough to cover the debt payments.

The tuition, room and board, and other fees -- in my opinion -- act as a dirty little silent force working against the success of middle-class graduates. Those who attend college are told early and often that education is important, and that education is mandatory in today's modern workplace. Our families and ourselves are shuttled into college. We graduate (or worse go only a few years) with large debt loads which significantly restrict our freedom.

I am not a socialist, and I am not an advocate for class warfare -- but the Tuition is Too Damned High. It creates an unfair disadvantage to the non-independantly wealthy middle class.

And the leadership in our dear country could not care less -- which should come as no suprise because they, themselves, mostly come from independantly wealthy families and too often have little personal contact with the unpleasant concept of this common problem: "taking a job I don't want, living a place I don't want to live, because I HAVE To make "X" salary to pay off these stinking student loans."

[PhillySioux]

Hmmmm, perhaps start with the President's pay.

Move on to cutting 25% of all salaried administration officials.

Reduce the pay of all remaining administrators, who earn over $100K, by 10%.

Reduce the cost of room and board by 50%. How is it poosible that the same dorm room, with the same food, costs significantly more today than it did 15 years ago? This move would be a tremendous advantage to students, because it would allow / encourage on-campus living, at greatly reduced rates compared to off-campus living. This equals lower loan amounts and reduces the risk of loan abuse and/or the serious problem of undergraduate credit card abuse.

I understand, and can anticipate the response: this will hamstring UND's ability to attract high-end talent at the upper leadership levels. I disagree.

I also believe this is a nationwide problem, wherein the cost of education is rising, and those who are not independantly wealthy are greatly hamstrung with enormous debt. Meaning, of course, that those who come from independantly wealthy families have the continuing advantage of financial freedom -- while those who are saddled with huge loans and other debt must live and work in particular areas, making sure that they are paid enough to cover the debt payments.

The tuition, room and board, and other fees -- in my opinion -- act as a dirty little silent force working against the success of middle-class graduates. Those who attend college are told early and often that education is important, and that education is mandatory in today's modern workplace. Our families and ourselves are shuttled into college. We graduate (or worse go only a few years) with large debt loads which significantly restrict our freedom.

I am not a socialist, and I am not an advocate for class warfare -- but the Tuition is Too Damned High. It creates an unfair disadvantage to the non-independantly wealthy middle class.

And the leadership in our dear country could not care less -- which should come as no suprise because they, themselves, mostly come from independantly wealthy families and too often have little personal contact with the unpleasant concept of this common problem: "taking a job I don't want, living a place I don't want to live, because I HAVE To make "X" salary to pay off these stinking student loans."

At what annual tuition rate would UND's tuition not be "too damned high?"