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13 yr Postseason Ban to be Reduced?


star2city

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One of the most significant impediments to Div I reclassification is the 13-year ban on men’s basketball postseason play. Last week, the NCAADiv I Management Council agreed to consider reducing the 13 years to 5 years. If this decrease in classfication time occurs, a move to Div I, while still difficult, becomes much less onerous. This story story in the Fargo Forum affirms arguments against reclassfication, if the 13 year rule is in place, by the very people who are arguing for NDSU’s move.

“I think it’s critical,” said NDSU coach Tim Miles.

It’s critical for recruiting. By being eligible in 08-09, an incoming freshman next season can redshirt, and then be theoretically on a tournament team by their senior year.

“It’s significant to us,” said women’s athletic director Lynn Dorn.

“It affords us the opportunity to recruit student-athletes with the hopes of having them make an immediate impact.”

Strange world we live in. An issue that was previously publicly denied as critical by NDSU officials and fans, is now critical.

If this rule is changed, there will be at least three ramifications: new DivI schools may find auto-bid conferences more receptive to invitations, newly formed Division I conferences will receive auto-bids within five years, and the number of schools declaring their intention to move up will increase. Preventing a flood of schools moving to Div I is the reason the 13-year rule was made. Very few schools are foolish enough to make to a move that places their athletic program in purgatory for 13 years. A much larger number of schools will make that commitment if the bar is lowered to 5 years.

My bet is the NCAA Board of Governors does not change it, protecting DivI from being watered down.

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star2city Posted: Oct 29 2003, 10:53 PM 

.....Very few schools are foolish enough to make to a move that places their athletic program in purgatory for 13 years.

.....My bet is the NCAA Board of Governors does not change it, protecting DivI from being watered down.

star2city,

What you are saying is UND would be foolish to consider moving to Division I.

If UND did make the move they would be watering down Division I.

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Maybe the reason NDSU officials said it wasn't critical was that they were sure that the postseason ban was going to get reduced from 13 years.

Sept. 1, 2002, in a Forum article, Coach Miles says there "is no doubt in my mind that it will change." The "it" he's talking about is the probationary period.

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The problem of "watering down" that prompted NDSU to move from DII to DI is now happening in DI.

What was the problem?

Schools like MSU-Moorhead, with 10% of the athletic budget of NDSU and UND moving into the division and trying to lower existing division rules.

What's happening in DI?

Schools with budgets 10% of the athletic budget of 'The' Ohio State University are moving into the division and trying to lower existing division rules.

So what would their logical recourse be? Hint: 'Up' for them just might be out of the NCAA.

Remember what the Duke Asst. AD said (paraphrased): The NCAA is voluntary. We choose to be members. We choose to pay its fees. (I've provided links to stories in the past.)

Which means they could choose a decision to "move up (out)" also.

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What you are saying is UND would be foolish to consider moving to Division I. 

If UND did make the move they would be watering down Division I.

A school trying to move up probably doesn't care at all that they're watering down the division, it's not at all foolish for them; the existing members that let their division be watered down are foolish. Whereas some people who complain continuously about the watering down of D-II also like to bet that D-I will continue to open its arms to being watered down by institutions like NDSU, star2city was guessing otherwise.

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the existing members that let their division be watered down are foolish. 

So, are NDSU and UND etc, foolish for letting Division II be watered down? How could they have prevented the watering down. NDSU is moving to Divison I looking to accept and support the current Division I scholarship level. Northeasternwest Iowa Academy are moving to Division II and supporting a reduced scholarship movement.

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So, are NDSU and UND etc, foolish for letting Division II be watered down?
It's not certain whether even a maximal effort could have prevented the watering down, but those schools that failed to do everything they could but are now complaining in arrears do indeed seem foolish to me.

How could they have prevented the watering down.
The million dollar question. D-I seems to be having some success with punitive transition requirements and hard attendance limits; perhaps 30 years ago that would have done something for D-II, but now it's water under the bridge. Whereas dissatisfied D-II members can climb to D-IAA, and have been for 20+ years, the major D-I's have nowhere to climb but out of the NCAA, which is what convinces me that they'll put up a more valiant fight than the major D-II's did.

Bison1234- I, too, hope UND reclassifies. There's a big difference between discussing obstacles and hoping for failure. A year ago some Bison fans were chastising Sicatoka and me for discussing the difficulties we thought NDSU would face in finding a D-I conference; the NDSU leaders had assured the faithful that conferences were knocking on NDSU's door, but that they just couldn't be named until the deals were finalized. The highly punitive probationary period is another major stumbling block that NDSU leaders have instructed the faithful to ignore with promises that it would just go away (as cited by Tony).

Addressing obstacles and risks leads to better planning and mitigation; unfortunately, NDSU's and SDSU's leaders have been under continuing pressure to sell the reclassifications to the public which I think has led to downplaying those risks and obstacles. Those who dare discuss them are branded as trying to disrupt the reclassification (ridiculously so, since my claiming there are obstacles has no actual effect on whether or not there are). My primary interest in this topic is because I hope UND is able to reclassify, but don't really know all the obstacles/risks.

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Bison1234- I, too, hope UND reclassifies. There's a big difference between discussing obstacles and hoping for failure. ...

Addressing obstacles and risks leads to better planning and mitigation; unfortunately, NDSU's and SDSU's leaders have been under continuing pressure to sell the reclassifications to the public which I think has led to downplaying those risks and obstacles.

NDSU and SDSU both had private consultants "road map" how to do this for them. They addressed the same things jimdahl and I do when we discuss it here.

From NDSU's Carr Report:

Consultants recommend that the University begin the transition process, but only after it has achieved the following:

- Establish an institutional consensus that the reclassification from NCAA Division II to Division I-AA is consistent with the University

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The problem of "watering down" that prompted NDSU to move from DII to DI is now happening in DI.

What was the problem?

Schools like MSU-Moorhead, with 10% of the athletic budget of NDSU and UND moving into the division and trying to lower existing division rules.

What's happening in DI?

Schools with budgets 10% of the athletic budget of 'The' Ohio State University are moving into the division and trying to lower existing division rules.

So what would their logical recourse be? Hint: 'Up' for them just might be out of the NCAA.

Remember what the Duke Asst. AD said (paraphrased): The NCAA is voluntary. We choose to be members. We choose to pay its fees. (I've provided links to stories in the past.)

Which means they could choose a decision to "move up (out)" also.

Schools with budgets 10% of the athletic budget of 'The' Ohio State University are able to compete at the Division I level in NCAA defined "Minor Sports", and remain in a different division in other sports. I guess it depends on what side of the fence you are one, as to what is considered "Watering Down". Ohio State's sport with the largest budget does not directly compete with most schools that are new to Division I, at least for NC's. Most of the new schools will compete at the I-AA level, if they have football at all. An Ohio State will almost always get the recruit over a Youngstown St, I-AA school etc. In hockey a Divison II school with Division I hockey can out recruit an Ohio State. :D

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I said "larger and larger."

Didn't you read the Congressional Record this week? ;):D

And if paying for post season matters, only two post seasons are pulling their weight in terms of revenues. Only "March Madness" and the "Frozen Four" show black ink for the NCAA (the last time I checked).

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tony, aren't Sioux fans always being told "no one cares" about hockey by Bison fans? Well, if the BCS schools bail, their issue will be hoops and football. Does the SEC or Pac-10 care about whether or not the Big 10ers play hockey at all, much less who they'd play?

They'll play anyone in the so-called minor sports as long as it makes them a buck. Because, this is what all this (March Madness, the BCS) is about, right? A buck? And the big schools are out to keep the lion's share of the biggest money. (They almost act like college athletics is a business.)

Not trying to speak for Goldie, but having observed them, Minnesota hockey will play whomever they need to to keep that "Golden" cash-cow mooing. (Minnesota is "in the black" in three programs: football, mens BB, mens hockey. Without those the accounting knives come out to cut programs.)

Will the BCS-schools bolt? Will they ask for an NDSU-like solution (move to a new higher NCAA level)? I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

bisonfan1234: There are about 70 BCS schools. That'd leave about 170 Division I (A or AA) football playing schools.

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