UND needs to be talking with the WAC

[WYOBISONMAN]

It sounds like Montana is being asked by the WAC.....or atleast ESPN is claiming so. Would Montana make that move with out MSU? Folks....we got a nailbiter here......stay tuned!

[The Sicatoka]

CUSA would not move down to the WAC.

Central time zone teams in a predominantly eastern time zone conference seldom move back westward. It's a "television" thing I suspect.

[The Sicatoka]

It sounds like Montana is being asked by the WAC.....or atleast ESPN is claiming so. Would Montana make that move with out MSU? Folks....we got a nailbiter here......stay tuned!

Montana alone is not enough to save the WAC given the bleeding it's done so far.

[WYOBISONMAN]

What a hell of an exciting prelude to the football season......Favre.....and now this.......geez.....the actual season is gonna be dull!

[MplsBison]

That's tame in comparison with some things that have been written about the Great West and Summit, which get almost no attention. And that story doesn't even get it's facts right: CUSA would not move down to the WAC. FCS schools are practically the only answer.

So what if the WAC is becoming the new Sunbelt in terms of strength of conference: it's a higher level than what we are now and recruiting would be much easier. Nevada never did anything in basketball until the WAC. Same with Fresno. Utah State, New Mexico State, and La Tech individually offer more in basketball than the Summit or Big Sky have ever accomplished.

If you have the ability and resources, choose the one with greater rewards.

Agree...BUT...

look at the geography of the proposed conference. It's basically a FBS version of the Big Sky. Other than the Montana schools...what business does North Dakota schools have being in that conference with western schools? It would be like the Great West all over again.

Would it be worth it just to be FBS? I don't know...

[vlarson]

It's a nice fantasy to think that this is an opportunity for both UND and NDSU can join back up in an FBS conference. I don't think there is enough fanbase or financial base for both to go up after so recently jumping from D2. Wyoming struggles with FBS with only one 4 yr. university in the state, so I think supporting 2 in ND would not be well received.

The bigger issue is future schedules. Fresno St. in 2011 is certainly in jeopardy if they have to revamp, and Montana in 2013 is probably out of the question for a home game if the go WAC.

That being said, the chaos this creates will probably be advantageous to UND because of the openings that will be created or the refortification of conferences.

[star2city]

It's a nice fantasy to think that this is an opportunity for both UND and NDSU can join back up in an FBS conference. I don't think there is enough fanbase or financial base for both to go up after so recently jumping from D2. Wyoming struggles with FBS with only one 4 yr. university in the state, so I think supporting 2 in ND would not be well received.

The bigger issue is future schedules. Fresno St. in 2011 is certainly in jeopardy if they have to revamp, and Montana in 2013 is probably out of the question for a home game if the go WAC.

That being said, the chaos this creates will probably be advantageous to UND because of the openings that will be created or the refortification of conferences.

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that UND could be the next Boise St, or even at the average competitive level of the MWC or CUSA. However, I do believe that UND could be as if not more competitve than Idaho, New Mexico St, Utah St in the WAC, as well as much of the MAC and Sunbelt (like Ball State, Bowling Green, Kent, Miami (O), E Mich, UL-M, WKU, and a host of other football programs). A revised WAC would be like a Big Sky on steroids. People were excited about the Big Sky: this would exceed it. Going FBS may even be strategically important to the hockey program, if FBS splits off from FCS and creates a new division.

An ideal conference for UND has often included NDSU, Montana, Montana St, Idaho Utah St. That can now happen.

This is possibly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. When UND first moved to DI, a longer-term goal of the WAC was enunciated by a number of people. With the major caveat being that proper funding must be available, now is our chance.

[star2city]

Utah State was invited to the MWC, but turned it down.

Utah St's president was the middleman in the WAC-BYU talks, and apparently didn't want to double-cross his conference mates by accepting the MWC's offer.

The MWC turned around and offered Nevada and Fresno State, who both accepted after agreeing to an oath of loyalty with all the other WAC president's

The MWC apparently felt that by offering Utah State, the communication between BYU and the WAC would end, and the BYU-WAC deal would end.

Open Letter from Utah State AD

[WYOBISONMAN]

It is all cloak and daggers......

[GeauxSioux]

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that UND could be the next Boise St, or even at the average competitive level of the MWC or CUSA. However, I do believe that UND could be as if not more competitve than Idaho, New Mexico St, Utah St in the WAC, as well as much of the MAC and Sunbelt (like Ball State, Bowling Green, Kent, Miami (O), E Mich, UL-M, WKU, and a host of other football programs). A revised WAC would be like a Big Sky on steroids. People were excited about the Big Sky: this would exceed it. Going FBS may even be strategically important to the hockey program, if FBS splits off from FCS and creates a new division.

An ideal conference for UND has often included NDSU, Montana, Montana St, Idaho Utah St. That can now happen.

This is possibly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. When UND first moved to DI, a longer-term goal of the WAC was enunciated by a number of people. With the major caveat being that proper funding must be available, now is our chance.

Is there a convergence here??..... Strange Bedfellows

[GeauxSioux]

It is all cloak and daggers......

It does lead to a lot of wild speculation. Okay, some of the wild stuff comes from me.

[bincitysioux]

It sounds like Montana is being asked by the WAC.....or atleast ESPN is claiming so. Would Montana make that move with out MSU? Folks....we got a nailbiter here......stay tuned!

Do you really believe that UM gives a flyin' frick about MSU?......

[Stromer]

So this is a break from all of the FBS talk but how many teams are needed for a conference to maintain its autobid status? Will the Big Sky be in trouble if the Montana schools bolt to the WAC? Or will a simple addition of Southern Utah be sufficient?

[82SiouxGuy]

So this is a break from all of the FBS talk but how many teams are needed for a conference to maintain its autobid status? Will the Big Sky be in trouble if the Montana schools bolt to the WAC? Or will a simple addition of Southern Utah be sufficient?

The minimum number is usually 6. The Big Sky would probably be looking to add more than Southern Utah if both Montana schools leave because there is a chance that other schools could leave also.

[Matt]

Today, what remains of the WAC is in a teleconference to chart it's future path. The WAC is down to six schools and needs to add schools quickly to get back up in numbers and help ensure that it survives for another generation. It needs future FBS schools, but it will also consider adding non-football schools. It also has an option of adding six FCS school immediately, and then only transitioning two schools every other year to FBS. The remaining schools would stay in queue - getting their facilities, finances, and programs in shape - until a predetermined time for a FBS transition. That way the WAC could help facilitate longer-term FBS transitions and the FCS schools can be assured that their efforts will not go for want. What the WAC would need is a commitment - likely with financial penalities if they aren't met - that the FCS school would be ready.

Since UND does not have membership in the Summit or MVFC, it is unencumbered by exit fees or scheduling requirements beyond 2011. If UND alumni could guarantee $40 - $50 or so is available for stadium upgrades, plus a new practice facility will be built, UND could be in a position to present a package to the WAC for membership. With a decent financial guarantee and FBS transition plan, UND leadership could present a proposal to the WAC to become a member in 2012, and start the FBS transition in 2014. IF FBS finances are truly available, and with the Betty and the Ralph, UND's research and academic offerings, overall athletic program (no other prospective program in in UND's league with respect to overall attendance or DI championships), and UND's broadcasting capability, UND could offer an overall package that is very attractive.

The Texas schools are likely the favorites right now, but one of their issues is that they are an eventual flight risk. Texas offers other league options. Schools in California, Montana, and North Dakota would have basically be tied to the WAC for the forseeable future.

WAC's current members:

La Tech

New Mexico St

Utah St

Idaho

San Jose St

Hawaii

Prospective FBS members:

Montana - needs to add sports, finances, practice facility

Montana St - stadium expansion, finances

UC-Davis - same as Montana State

Cal Poly - same as Montana State

Sac State - needs to rent the Arco for BB

Portland State - needs to rent the Rose Garden for BB

Texas State - ready

Sam Houston State - finances needed

UTSA - ready

NDSU- practice facility, finances

UND - stadium expansion, finances (practice facility?)

Non-football

Denver

Seattle

Utah Valley

Cal State-Bakersfield

I agree with you, but this would take a vision and attitude from the president's office and athletic department that I have yet to see. I know there are different faces now than there were ten or so years ago when the xdsus started their move, but I wonder if the new guys have the fortitude to change the culture of 'this is good enough for us", and aspire to something more.

[Risky]

If we had a chance to get in the WAC we should go for it. Boy would they be squirming in Fargo. They say they can't break their contract with the the MVC but I bet NDSU would drop the MVC in a hurry if we went FBC.

[The Sicatoka]

Is there a convergence here??..... Strange Bedfellows

The guy that wrote that ... he's crazy ... like a fox.

[gjw007]

I agree with you, but this would take a vision and attitude from the president's office and athletic department that I have yet to see. I know there are different faces now than there were ten or so years ago when the xdsus started their move, but I wonder if the new guys have the fortitude to change the culture of 'this is good enough for us", and aspire to something more.

I have always felt that UND and NDSU made a mistake by not moving to D1AA in the late 70s with UNI and the Montana schools. It would be interesting what this discussion would like today if they had.

[star2city]

So this is a break from all of the FBS talk but how many teams are needed for a conference to maintain its autobid status? Will the Big Sky be in trouble if the Montana schools bolt to the WAC? Or will a simple addition of Southern Utah be sufficient?

There are different correct answers.

Six is needed for bids in all sports but men's BB

Seven is needed for men's BB

Eight is needed to maintain a conference's FBS status.

With new NCAA rules that drop continuity requirements, the WAC will continue. Whether it can continue as an FBS conference is a whole other issue.

[star2city]

If we had a chance to get in the WAC we should go for it. Boy would they be squirming in Fargo. They say they can't break their contract with the the MVC but I bet NDSU would drop the MVC in a hurry if we went FBC.

UND shouldn't concern itself with what NDSU wants to do.

If UND accepted, NDSU would immediately panic and then accept. Same situation if Montana St accepted, Montana would immediately. NDSU wouldn't be breaking their contract with MVC: they just exercise the exit clause.

It's looking more and more like La Tech will leave the WAC, even for the Sunbelt. If that is the case, as stated before, the WAC could become the Big Sky on steroids.

Hawaii

San Jose St

Cal Poly

Sac St

UC Davis

Utah St

Idaho

Montana

Montana St

N Dakota

NDSU

NMexSt

[GeauxSioux]

UND shouldn't concern itself with what NDSU wants to do.

If UND accepted, NDSU would immediately panic and then accept. Same with Montana and Montana St. NDSU wouldn't be breaking their contract with MVC: they just exercise the exit clause.

It's looking more and more like La Tech will leave the WAC, even for the Sunbelt. If that is the case, as stated before, the WAC could become the Big Sky on steroids.

Hawaii

San Jose St

Cal Poly

Sac St

UC Davis

Utah St

Idaho

Montana

Montana St

N Dakota

NDSU

NMexSt

I gathered the same regarding LaTech from reading some site last night. What are your thought on Hawaii? Independent?

[coach daddy]

Here is an example of what the national sports media is thinking about the WAC......not a conference I would want NDSU associated with.......

My link

While the article certainly doesn't make the WAC look very enticing today, we have to ask ourselves where we see this whole thing going in 5 years or so. DI athletics is going to change. This summer was the firing of the first shot but changes are coming. Why wouldn't we look at being a part of a 16 team conference with schools from Montana, Utah, Cal., etc.? I realize that NDSU is in a better place today than UND but from a financial perspective, how much more would have to be raised? Both schools have facilities that are looking to be renovated or built anyway, just build them a little bigger. Whats 20 more scholarships for football? Its not like either school is having trouble finding players and our recruiting has already stretched in to Calif. and Ariz. NDSU is very active in Texas already so whats the big deal.

7 years ago NDSU made the leap and UND didn't. We didn't and today, we're paying for our short-sightedness and narrow-minded thinking. Do we want to make that same mistake again now? Especially when we have no real conference and absolutely no rivalry games on our schedule. If the WAC came to UND, NDSU, SDSU, and USD and said they would put us in a conference along with Montana, Mont. St., and whoever else would we really be telling ourselves not to make that jump? C'mon folks, this could be the answer to all our problems!!!!!

[The Sicatoka]

It's looking more and more like La Tech will leave the WAC, even for the Sunbelt.

"This is a dynamic phase in college athletic conference alignments. We anticipate additional changes in conference membership on a national scale for the foreseeable future." -- USU AD

"(TCU FB coach Gary) Patterson strongly suggested Wednesday afternoon that "more dominoes" could soon fall, although it is uncertain if he was referring to anything beyond the MWC's addition of the two WAC schools." -- ESPN story

[star2city]

I gathered the same regarding LaTech from reading some site last night. What are your thought on Hawaii? Independent?

Hawaii is in a major bind. When fuel costs were lower, they probably could have gone independent in football, but with their other programs in the Big West.

Now, they really need conference football games to fill the schedule.

While the article certainly doesn't make the WAC look very enticing today, we have to ask ourselves where we see this whole thing going in 5 years or so. DI athletics is going to change. This summer was the firing of the first shot but changes are coming. Why wouldn't we look at being a part of a 16 team conference with schools from Montana, Utah, Cal., etc.? I realize that NDSU is in a better place today than UND but from a financial perspective, how much more would have to be raised? Both schools have facilities that are looking to be renovated or built anyway, just build them a little bigger. Whats 20 more scholarships for football? Its not like either school is having trouble finding players and our recruiting has already stretched in to Calif. and Ariz. NDSU is very active in Texas already so whats the big deal.

When the WAC lost UTEP, SMU, Tulsa, and Rice seven or eight years ago, all the sportswriters were declaring the WAC dead. In the 90's, when the MWC 8 left the WAC16, the whole sports wold declared the WAC dead. When Arizona and Arizona St left the WAC 30 some years ago, the whole sports world declared the WAC dead. The WAC always reinvents itself.

The major issue for UND is having a plan for a 15,000 seat capacity stadium in which we have to play more than half our games.

7 years ago NDSU made the leap and UND didn't. We didn't and today, we're paying for our short-sightedness and narrow-minded thinking. Do we want to make that same mistake again now? Especially when we have no real conference and absolutely no rivalry games on our schedule. If the WAC came to UND, NDSU, SDSU, and USD and said they would put us in a conference along with Montana, Mont. St., and whoever else would we really be telling ourselves not to make that jump? C'mon folks, this could be the answer to all our problems!!!!!

Seven years ago, NDSU made the move and didn't have a conference.

An FBS conference is available. The only ingredient missing is a 15,000 seat stadium, which means a funds must be quickly raised. An indoor practice facility is the first step, but either an addition to the Alerus or a Memorial Stadium renovation to 15,000+ is needed. FAU and FIU didn't have facilities for years that met FBS standards, yet the NCAA didn't kick them out. As long as UND has plans and is working on them, the NCAA's precedence has shown it doesn't care.

We need to think about this from an historic standpoint. When the WAC fills up again with schools, will they then go looking or North Dakota five or ten years from now? No. This is our shot.

Every school that the WAC is looking at - with the possible exception of Texas schools - are in states with major budget crisis. UND and North Dakota are in better financial shape than comparably any time in our history.

We have to recruit Texas and California for FCS recruits anyway: why not make that full commitment?

7 years ago NDSU made the leap and UND didn't. We didn't and today, we're paying for our short-sightedness and narrow-minded thinking. Do we want to make that same mistake again now? Especially when we have no real conference and absolutely no rivalry games on our schedule. If the WAC came to UND, NDSU, SDSU, and USD and said they would put us in a conference along with Montana, Mont. St., and whoever else would we really be telling ourselves not to make that jump? C'mon folks, this could be the answer to all our problems!!!!!

While SDSU can probably make a leap to FBS much later in the future, their budget of only $10 mill is very low for all the sports they offer even at the FCS level. USD's budget is even low compared to the low rent district of the Big Sky. Those two schools would be more than happy in the MVFC.

That said, one of the beauties of a new WAC is the ability to control costs, even at the FBS level. A major expense of FBS at most schools is paying coaches high six or even seven figures. If coaches salaries are controlled like at Sunbelt levels in a new WAC, it is affordable.

[star2city]

UND and fans should consider this investment advice when viewing the WAC:

Baron Rothschild, the quintessential banking opportunist, is said to have advised that the best time to buy is when there is "blood in the streets." An investor who embraces this axiom casts aside the bears and turns bullish in times of maximum pessimism.