NDSU - UND game 2010

[star2city]

What you are not comprehending is that all of your numbers are nothing but speculation. What causes you to believe that UND holds that much value that all prices can be raised just because UND is on the schedule again? You are not part of the administration and you are not involved in anything with the athletic department. You can throw all the numbers you want out and make it sound like it is nothing but a win-win. The rivalry was big and continues to be off the field of play but just because you are UND doesn't make you the greatest thing that can happen for NDSU.

So since you are such a financial and athletic department insider, show me financially how NDSU wins by having a sixth game.

As I wrote, NDSU only wins by scheduling someone that requires less than a $50,000 guarantee. Hence USD.

BTW, when UND last played NDSU, the tickets were more than $20 higher than normal games. That's $200,000 more in UND's pocket. Refute those numbers as speculation? You can't.

Sorry, but you are just going to have to accept the fact that you've been deceived by your very own. It's all about trying bison athletics attempting to maintain a very laughable perception that NDSU football >> UND football.

[johnson]

So since you are such a financial and athletic department insider, show me financially how NDSU wins by having a sixth game.

As I wrote, NDSU only wins by scheduling someone that requires less than a $50,000 guarantee. Hence USD.

BTW, when UND last played NDSU, the tickets were more than $20 higher than normal games. That's $200,000 more in UND's pocket. Refute those numbers as speculation? You can't.

Sorry, but you are just going to have to accept the fact that you've been deceived by your very own. It's all about trying bison athletics attempting to maintain a very laughable perception that NDSU football >> UND football.

I guess it's all just a conspiracy for you then.

[82SiouxGuy]

What you are not comprehending is that all of your numbers are nothing but speculation. What causes you to believe that UND holds that much value that all prices can be raised just because UND is on the schedule again? You are not part of the administration and you are not involved in anything with the athletic department. You can throw all the numbers you want out and make it sound like it is nothing but a win-win. The rivalry was big and continues to be off the field of play but just because you are UND doesn't make you the greatest thing that can happen to NDSU. If the program starts winning games again the seats will be filled and prices will continue to increase annually. I've noticed that the price of season tickets at the Alerus have dropped in price for two seasons in a row now to the point where I can pick one up for $40.00. UND needs help filling the Alerus and NDSU has been bringing in decent numbers. It's not really smart to come to the negotiating table needing help and start making demands.

It isn't speculation that you can charge more for tickets against rivals than you can against weak opponents. It is done all the time in college and the pros. It was done for UND-NDSU football in the past. UND does it for opponents like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Denver in hockey. Even if you add $10 per ticket for 15,000 tickets (non-students) that's $150,000 in extra revenue for that game alone with no additional cost. UND hockey adds $20 per ticket for Minnesota games, if NDSU did that for a UND football game it would bring in an additional $300,000 just by changing the number on the ticket. That is without any of the other potential benefits that star mentioned. $300,000 in additional profit for a 2 year period is probably more than the profit that they would lose by giving up that 1 home game every other year with a weak opponent (if they can get someone in to play that game). Remember, that is bonus profit for playing 1 game. Do you think they normally make more than $300,000 per game in profit? And they wouldn't have to pay for that opponent to show up which is an additional $50,000 or more in the account for NDSU.

We know that the tickets would sell because not only would you have demand from the NDSU supporters, you would have all of the UND fans trying to attend the game also. The tickets would sell.

[johnson]

It isn't speculation that you can charge more for tickets against rivals than you can against weak opponents. It is done all the time in college and the pros. It was done for UND-NDSU football in the past. UND does it for opponents like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Denver in hockey. Even if you add $10 per ticket for 15,000 tickets (non-students) that's $150,000 in extra revenue for that game alone with no additional cost. UND hockey adds $20 per ticket for Minnesota games, if NDSU did that for a UND football game it would bring in an additional $300,000 just by changing the number on the ticket. That is without any of the other potential benefits that star mentioned. $300,000 in additional profit for a 2 year period is probably more than the profit that they would lose by giving up that 1 home game every other year with a weak opponent (if they can get someone in to play that game). Remember, that is bonus profit for playing 1 game. Do you think they normally make more than $300,000 per game in profit? And they wouldn't have to pay for that opponent to show up which is an additional $50,000 or more in the account for NDSU.

We know that the tickets would sell because not only would you have demand from the NDSU supporters, you would have all of the UND fans trying to attend the game also. The tickets would sell.

I tell you what, call up NDSU and find out how much they make per game. Then we can all feel better about all of this. Get into the MVFC and both sides will finally be happy. If better decisions would have been made nearly a decade ago now this all wouldn't have been an issue today.

[homer]

What you are not comprehending is that all of your numbers are nothing but speculation. What causes you to believe that UND holds that much value that all prices can be raised just because UND is on the schedule again? You are not part of the administration and you are not involved in anything with the athletic department. You can throw all the numbers you want out and make it sound like it is nothing but a win-win. The rivalry was big and continues to be off the field of play but just because you are UND doesn't make you the greatest thing that can happen to NDSU. If the program starts winning games again the seats will be filled and prices will continue to increase annually. I've noticed that the price of season tickets at the Alerus have dropped in price for two seasons in a row now to the point where I can pick one up for $40.00. UND needs help filling the Alerus and NDSU has been bringing in decent numbers. It's not really smart to come to the negotiating table needing help and start making demands.

I have to agree with the others. No one is saying that ndsu needs UND or vice versa but if you think that you won't get more per ticket for that game and still actually sell out, not the sell outs that we saw in those other pictures earlier, your kidding yourself. The demand for the ticket will be higher. Your limiting yourself to ndsu fans but have to remember that UND fans will be paying for tickets as well. We get to see it all the time with hockey series and I hate to bring that up but no opponent that you are trying to get to come to the fargodome will bring that kind of fan support that you will be able to sell tickets at a price increase like that. Wagner, Central Conn. or any other team you bring in from out east just dont bring the same type of demand to Fargo that UND will bring. You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think different.

[82SiouxGuy]

I tell you what, call up NDSU and find out how much they make per game. Then we can all feel better about all of this. Get into the MVFC and both sides will finally be happy. If better decisions would have been made nearly a decade ago now this all wouldn't have been an issue today.

Well, let's try a little math. You said that season tickets were anywhere from $100 to $130 per seat and approximately 9,400 season tickets were sold. Use the higher number and divide by 5 to get $244,400 in sales per game. Add another 5,600 tickets at $25 which is the highest possible price (not nearly all of them are selling for that. That comes out to $140,000. 4,000 students get in free. So ticket sales for a single game are less than $384,400 (remember I used the highest price for all tickets in this scenario while in reality a lot of tickets are sold for a lower price). An actual number is probably $325,000 to $350,000 at best. I won't go through Team Makers because those numbers may not change in either scenario.

That $384,400 is gross sales. Out of that NDSU has to pay for an opponent, pay the Fargodome for use of the facility, pay for staff at the game, etc. We have a pretty good idea that any opponent is going to get at least $50,000 and probably more. Facilities and staff will probably cost $30,000 or more per game. So now we have a best case scenario of making $300,000 per game with a reality of probably making closer to $200,000 to $250,000 after expenses and maybe less. If they can average this for a 6th game every year you get a profit on 6th games of $400,000 to $500,000 for a 2 year period.

If UND and NDSU started a home and home series the numbers would change somewhat. Let's say you add $20 to each ticket and only have a 6th game every other year. $20 times 15,000 is $300,000. Add that to the lower number listed above of $325,000 and you have a gross sales of $625,000. Expenses actually go down because NDSU doesn't pay for UND. So instead of $80,000 in expenses you would have $30,000. That leaves a profit of $595,000 a UND-NDSU game and for 6th games over a 2 year period. $595,000 is greater than the $500,000 listed above.

These numbers are just estimates, but they should be in the right ballpark. My guess is that the actual profit on a UND-NDSU game is going to be a lot more than the profit NDSU would have for 6th home games in 2 consecutive years. And that is conceding that NDSU could find 6 home games every year. So far that hasn't been the case. It looks like Mr. Taylor is leaving a lot of money on the table.

[bincitysioux]

Since when did we become so desperate to play NDSU? Up until this past season that had a very counter-productive home schedule (2 NAIA's, no September games, and all 5 games in a 6 week span), attendance had risen every year since we stopped playing them, hitting an all time high in 2008. We had 4 games televised last season, 3 of them nationally. Star & 82 have laid out alot of reasons that this game would be financially beneficial to NDSU. But I'm not interested in helping them, certainly not until Gene Taylor moves along. Why should we share the limelight with them? Besides we don't have an autobid, so when we are playoff eligible, playing them will hurt our Strength of Schedule. Sign them up in everything........except football. That program at both schools will be just fine. Where these two schools CAN help each other in a mutually beneficial way is in basketball (especially women's) and all of the olympic and non-revenue sports.

[82SiouxGuy]

Since when did we become so desperate to play NDSU? Up until this past season that had a very counter-productive home schedule (2 NAIA's, no September games, and all 5 games in a 6 week span), attendance had risen every year since we stopped playing them, hitting an all time high in 2008. We had 4 games televised last season, 3 of them nationally. Star & 82 have laid out alot of reasons that this game would be financially beneficial to NDSU. But I'm not interested in helping them, certainly not until Gene Taylor moves along. Why should we share the limelight with them? Besides we don't have an autobid, so when we are playoff eligible, playing them will hurt our Strength of Schedule. Sign them up in everything........except football. That program at both schools will be just fine. Where these two schools CAN help each other in a mutually beneficial way is in basketball (especially women's) and all of the olympic and non-revenue sports.

I have gone on the record before saying that the 2 teams will play again when it makes sense, and that it probably won't happen until 2012 at least. But both schools have had trouble filling their home schedules with quality opponents. There are a lot of reasons that the schools should be playing each other in all sports including football. I don't care if Taylor is there or not. My point in going through some numbers was to show some of the visitors from the south that maybe their guy wasn't being totally honest with them, and that some of his reasons don't make complete sense. Financially it is better for both schools to play a regular home and home series and only have 5 home games during the years they travel rather than bringing in weak competition for a 6th home game each year. UND would make a lot more money with NDSU in the rotation than they do right now just like NDSU would make more money. If it is better for the finances of both schools it is better for the state of North Dakota. The Strength of Schedule will probably help some years and hurt in other years. But a regular series will be good for the fans and the people of North Dakota every year. And that's why it should happen.

[dlsiouxfan]

You have to admire the hubris of Gene Taylor and Bison fans. They're football program is circling the drain and they still have the nerve to come on here an talk !@#$. Fact is UND had the best football team in the state last year and the Bison football program is a hot pile of garbage right now. It doesn't matter how many idiot fans in Fargo show up to watch that rancid pile of crap they call a football team since we have the best program in the state. The games will happen when they happen and when Gene Taylor finally grows a pair I wouldn't be surprised if we beat them by three scores. It's typical Bison BS. All talk and no action.