Sioux Chants

[bincitysioux]

It could last for a very very long time if the University simply drops the name and logo, rather than replaces it.

Agree. You'll never please everyone, why not just say "we're North Dakota" and let people expand that as much or as little as they wish?

(Personally, I have zero desire to ever see another symbol at Illinois.)

Which is the very reason why I feel like I could potentially support no nickname but not a new nickname.

This is my #1 alternative. Dartmouth (as obnoxious as they are) is the only school that I know of that does not have an official nickname or mascot.

Like "Fighting Sioux", it would be unique. And without a forced replacement, it would indeed carry on. I think along the lines of the Montreal Canadiens being referred to as "Le Habs", or the Pittsburg Pirates referred to as the "Bucs". Unofficial, yet almost prevalent. If a new name like the "Freeze" or "RiverRats" or whatever is forced down our throats right away, then the name and tradition of the Sioux will drift into the past fairly quickly.

Simply we would be the University of North dakota and have a UND or something like that past to the front of our uniform.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

UGH...

Well, why stop there? How about the unanimous consent of everyone registered as a Sioux Tribe member?

Maybe those who also have some Sioux blood should be able to vote. And how often should we have these elections? Is once a year really often enough "morally"? Maybe monthly polls would be more morally acceptable to those who set themselves up as the ultimate arbitrers of morality?

How about if we spend government money to equip everyone worldwide who even claims the tinest bit of Sioux ancestry with a secure wristwatch style voting mechanism to allow him/her the ability to veto the use of the logo on a minute to minute basis?

[Goon]

Well, why stop there? How about the unanimous consent of everyone registered as a Sioux Tribe member?

Maybe those who also have some Sioux blood should be able to vote. And how often should we have these elections? Is once a year really often enough "morally"? Maybe monthly polls would be more morally acceptable to those who set themselves up as the ultimate arbitrers of morality?

How about if we spend government money to equip everyone worldwide who even claims the tinest bit of Sioux ancestry with a secure wristwatch style voting mechanism to allow him/her the ability to veto the use of the logo on a minute to minute basis?

Actually the policy isn't that far off from what the UND agreed to with the NCAA.

[CMSioux]

I've always been a proponent of not replacing Sioux with anything. Let's just call ourselves North Dakota and be proud of it. Watch the movie We are Marshall, in the same vein, wouldn't "We are North Dakota" be a powerful chant to hear from the crowd? Let's stake a claim to the name North Dakota!

[Mikey]

Dartmouth (as obnoxious as they are) is the only school that I know of that does not have an official nickname or mascot.

Isn't Dartmouth's official nickname "Big Green?"

[Goon]

I've always been a proponent of not replacing Sioux with anything. Let's just call ourselves North Dakota and be proud of it. Watch the movie We are Marshall, in the same vein, wouldn't "We are North Dakota" be a powerful chant to hear from the crowd? Let's stake a claim to the name North Dakota!

Love the Idea.

Mikey said: Isn't Dartmouth's official nickname "Big Green?"

I think you are right.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Let's stake a claim to the name North Dakota!

I believe your school would be wise to start selling some "North Dakota" shirts with a distinctive typeface. That way, it would be a symbol (and I think with the typeface it could be trademarked AFAIK) and the school could claim some sort of royalties from the sale.

Lets face it, anyone can market a green and white shirt with the words "North Dakota" on it and the school would get nothing from sales at Wal-Mart, truck stops, etc.

(And of course, today nothing prevents a store from marketing a green and white shirt with a generic drawing of an Indian and "UND". But that's a different subject.)

[Sal Atticum]

Well, why stop there? How about the unanimous consent of everyone registered as a Sioux Tribe member?

Maybe those who also have some Sioux blood should be able to vote. And how often should we have these elections? Is once a year really often enough "morally"? Maybe monthly polls would be more morally acceptable to those who set themselves up as the ultimate arbitrers of morality?

How about if we spend government money to equip everyone worldwide who even claims the tinest bit of Sioux ancestry with a secure wristwatch style voting mechanism to allow him/her the ability to veto the use of the logo on a minute to minute basis?

I think you're taking my point much further than intended. I'm just confused as to why the agreement is that only the Sioux tribes in ND have to agree, rather than the Sioux Nation (in its official capacity). The nickname is heard outside of ND, so why are only the ND Sioux allowed to have a say?

I was never advocating for a vote in the capacity you are suggesting. The agreement should be between UND and the Sioux Nation, both acting as corporations and representing what they believe is the best course of action.

To those who suggest that my reason for being less than fond of the nickname is political correctness, sorry guys. I just personally think it's just dumb to have another group of people as your totem.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I think you're taking my point much further than intended. I'm just confused as to why the agreement is that only the Sioux tribes in ND have to agree, rather than the Sioux Nation (in its official capacity).

First, what is this "Sioux Nation" to which you refer? AFAIK, there are several federally recognized Sioux tribes-some totally within the state of North Dakota, but at least one of which straddles a state border. And while each of those tribes elects their own government, that's the end of the elections. There are no worldwide elections beyond the tribal level: no "UN" of these tribes. Simply put, AFAIK these tribes are quite separate entities and no "official capacity" unites them all.

The nickname is heard outside of ND, so why are only the ND Sioux allowed to have a say?

The Seminole nickname is heard outside of Florida (and the United States for that matter), so why is only one tribe permitted to vote it up or down? Same thing with the Utes, and of course, the Aztecs (who have NO say in the events at San Diego State because they're at least 6-7 miles away over the soundproof US/Mexico border).

Your question needs to be asked of the NCAA and/or the UND Administrators who agreed to this settlement.

I was never advocating for a vote in the capacity you are suggesting. The agreement should be between UND and the Sioux Nation, both acting as corporations and representing what they believe is the best course of action.

Again, I don't understand your concept of a single "corporate Sioux Nation" beyond the tribes.

To those who suggest that my reason for being less than fond of the nickname is political correctness, sorry guys. I just personally think it's just dumb to have another group of people as your totem.

And as long as you think its dumb for the Irish, Trojans, Spartans, Sooners, Cornhuskers, Vikings, Braves, Seminoles, Aztecs, Rainbow Warriors, Cavaliers, Demon Deacons, Giants, Saints or any other group of people to be a "totem" then I believe you'll find a lot of people on this board agreeing with you. IMHO, most people posting here will be satisfied with simple consistency on this issue.

And for that matter, you will find many people who don't want the Tigers, Bulldogs, Blue Hens or any other animal to be used as "totems" either. Perhaps not here, but there are people who do think that way.

[dakotadan]

...

CIS, I have to say that I have really appreciated your posts over the years that you have posted here. I know absolutely nothing about you but would like to think that after your time posting here that you have a UND sweatshirt or two in your closet and follow a few of our teams. Any plans to ever make it up here for a football, basketball or hockey game? I can guarantee that there are many posters here that would love to meet you and would show you some of our great North Dakota hospitality while you are here! If we planned it out right we could probably find a week or weekend to fit a few sports all into one trip.

And hopefully in the next few years our teams are showing up at your home fields/arenas/rinks.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

And hopefully in the next few years our teams are showing up at your home fields/arenas/rinks.

I appreciate the kind words.

While the most likely "next" competition would be in basketball, I will mention that if your school has a club hockey team we could give them a run for their money. Illinois is the reigning National Champion of club-level men's hockey.

We have had a strong program for years but it seems like very recently the organizers have put a little more emphasis on organization. We enjoy a home ice advantage for a number of reasons, but opponents often mention that our rink approaches a square shape rather than a rectangle.

(BTW, our hockey team used the Chief symbol long after the offical teams dropped it in deference to political correctness.)

[FightingSiouxnerd]

I've always been a proponent of not replacing Sioux with anything. Let's just call ourselves North Dakota and be proud of it. Watch the movie We are Marshall, in the same vein, wouldn't "We are North Dakota" be a powerful chant to hear from the crowd? Let's stake a claim to the name North Dakota!

YEAH, Right on! That wold be a powerful chant.

[Goon]

The University of North Dakota is fine with me. tUND.

[FightingSiouxnerd]

Which is the very reason why I feel like I could potentially support no nickname but not a new nickname.

I agree 100%.

[jukenjive27]

They will go away...it would just be dumb to keep up the chants when its not actually your nickname. It's life, move on with it. I'm sure the new nickname will be just fine and maybe the fans will be creative enough to make up new chants, I could only hope.

M I N N E S O T A we....choke! *loud cheer*

[redwing77]

I don't think any chant for the new nickname will be accepted for a very long time.... Certainly not within the first 5 years or so.

There will be too many hard feelings, displeasure with the nickname change, displeasure with the nickname choice, and the list goes on and on.

A lot of the chants I've remembered and cherished don't have the Sioux name in it. However, I'm not certain many of the current students know the chants.

Most are well.... rather obscene. However, they all are awesome.

Some chants I remember that don't involve the Sioux nickname:

The Sieve chant

Hey Goalie (Black hole) chant

M-I-C-K-E-Y chant

Goalie-Sieve chant

and others....

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I don't think any chant for the new nickname will be accepted for a very long time.... Certainly not within the first 5 years or so.

Any sort of chant or motto, just like a nickname, cannot be forced. Those types of things evolve thru popular support. JMHO.

A lot of the chants I've remembered and cherished don't have the Sioux name in it. However, I'm not certain many of the current students know the chants.

Most are well.... rather obscene...

Seems to be a hockey tradition, doesn't it? At least in the days before the NHL took a hard-line stance on family friendliness and such. Kind of goes along with the memories of a lot of cigarette and cigar smoke in the old Chicago Stadium. :-)