Dak Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...mp;section=News This is wrong on so many levels.
MafiaMan Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 How disappointing. However, I find it equally disappointing that immediately, a group of partyers is lumped in together with people in favor of the Sioux nickname. Ugh... She copied the photos onto her own photobucket.com site and created a slideshow with critical comments such as
crna Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 i think the idea behind the party was probably not the best choice in leui of what is happening with the nickname, but the university of north dakota cannot control what happens in private homes or events and does not represent what the university stands for. I am glad that the Fighting Sioux logo is respectful and honorable and does not depict native americans as such in the photos.
mikeypat15 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 This is disappointing to say the least and I believe some serious consequences should be given to the sorority. Sadly, it looks like the guests (the men) were the ones that further engulfed the Native American stereotypes which the sorority must take responsibility for.
Siouxtimestwo Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 This is really gonna help in our fight to keep the nickname.
SoonersNSioux Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Doesn't the entire debate basically comes down to this? Lets face it... I'd like to think the majority of us ARE respectful REALIZE the history and proudly wear/use the name/logo. Then you have some absolute idiots go and decide to throw a Cowboy/Indian (why not cowboy/cowgirl??) party on a campus embroiled in a debate over the nickname. HOW STUPID CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE!??! My thoughts are confirmed when you read some of the posts on the Herald... we truly have some bigoted/stupid idiots out there. If they do retire the nickname in the near future (I hope not), I hope they directly link this event to the ultimate decision. The party reminds me of a shindig at Ok. State University a few years ago. Some brilliant white boys decided to throw a KKK themed party.
Teeder11 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Doesn't the entire debate basically comes down to this? Lets face it... I'd like to think the majority of us ARE respectful REALIZE the history and proudly wear/use the name/logo. Then you have some absolute idiots go and decide to throw a Cowboy/Indian (why not cowboy/cowgirl??) party on a campus embroiled in a debate over the nickname. HOW STUPID CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE!??! My thoughts are confirmed when you read some of the posts on the Herald... we truly have some bigoted/stupid idiots out there. If they do retire the nickname in the near future (I hope not), I hope they directly link this event to the ultimate decision. The party reminds me of a shindig at Ok. State University a few years ago. Some brilliant white boys decided to throw a KKK themed party. Sadly, SoonerNSioux, you are totally right on the money with your comment. You call it like it is.
mikeypat15 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Also, sadly I fear that Hak is going to be pulled into this just because of his connections. Terrible time of the season for controversy.
The Sicatoka Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 The party reminds me of a shindig at Ok. State University a few years ago. Some brilliant white boys decided to throw a KKK themed party. Uh, Colorado College hockey players, "black face", this season, ... ring any bells?
The Sicatoka Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 This is why the name needs to be changed. No use adding fuel to the fire. Get rid of the name and let's move on. Don't need a distraction during hockey. The conundrum is this: Given the shear and utter lunacy of a "cowboy themed" party in this climate, and still going with it , changing the UND moniker will do nothing but change the UND moniker. See: Oklahoma State, Colorado College, et al. PS - TRex, if you don't realize the moniker is gone already, you really haven't been paying attention. PPS - Didn't Ron His Horse Is Thunder recommend "Rough Riders" as a UND moniker. Think about it.
ScottM Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Offended: Life's tough. Wear a f**king helmet. Love, Denis Leary
star2city Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Without a doubt, some of the costumes at this party were incredibly distasteful. But if it happened on any other campuses' sorority (Like Minnesota, Iowa, Wisco), would anything be said? This was not a blackface party, which the whole culture views as taboo (see the Clemsonn case). The core of the issue was guys wanting to show off the bodies in front of a bunch of sorority gals. Kids in elementary schools are not allowed to dress in blackface, but they are allowed to dress in Indian and Pilgrim outfits during Thanksgiving plays. What is the cultural line? Is it O.K. for a person with 1/8th or 1/16 Indian blood to wear an Indian custume to any event? Should Navajo or Hopi jewelry sales to non-Indians be outlawed? But agree this is another nail in the coffin of the Sioux nickname.
Dak Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 Dear Offended: Life's tough. Wear a f**king helmet. Love, Denis Leary I agree but this hurts us in so many ways. Go Sioux! for now
JackJD Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 This is why the name needs to be changed. No use adding fuel to the fire. Get rid of the name and let's move on. Don't need a distraction during hockey. TRex's practical, pragmatic comment ought to be the official, announced position of UND: Move on. I think most people do not judge UND generally by the actions of some of those attending the sorority party. But, the fact that the party occurred and involved UND students seems to be a clear warning sign that UND as an institution had better start getting out the word that the name change is inevitable -- apparently some have not gotten the message; or, if they've gotten the message, they persist nonetheless in providing evidence of why, in the minds of many, the name should be changed. If the school doesn't start pounding on the fact that a new name is coming, when the new name is announced, there will be idiots like those at the party who will cause trouble. I know there's the group trying to hold on to the name, advocating the tradition, honor etc. That's a losing battle (just consider the sorority idiots and their friends). The next few transition years can be very trying times but, they can also be some great times. Why remain bogged down with the name fight? As TRex said: get rid of the name and move on.
The Sicatoka Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 JackJD: Changing the name won't prevent the next "cowboy" party on any campus. Some believe that taking back the Fighting Sioux nickname, which was given to UND by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe in 1969, will result in a victory against racism, as if a logo is going to affect a racist person
UNDintheNHL Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Bad decision by some old friends of mine. in addition to what it does to their rep on campus, imagine the letter that their national headquarters got or will be getting about this. isnt going to sit well I am sure and they may have a suspensory period. I would be interested personally to know which girls it were that had the idea and carried it out. course, its been 2 years since ive been to the house, so prob no one i know anymore :-P
Chewey Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Put James Patrick, Commodore, Landon Wilson and others of similar disposition in a room with Myles and Co and the NC00 reverses its policy and we don't worry about the exercise of free speech --- even the incredibly stupid exercise, like this -- having an impact on retaining the name.
JackJD Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 JackJD: Changing the name won't prevent the next "cowboy" party on any campus. Of course, you're right: the next party and the one after that won't be prevented. That's not the point. It seems to me UND would want to avoid the noise and distraction thrown its way just because somebody decided to throw a party with an unfortunate theme. Why deal with the controversy? With the transition years here, UND will have lots of other issues to worry about. If UND named its teams after an animal, an inanimate object or some concept as opposed to a group of people, a party such as that sponsored by the sorority will not make the news. Oh well, I guess it's your institution's problem. Added later: Incidently, I have some understanding of those who contend the name is intended to honor a group of people. I also am aware of the sentiment that no one likes to have what some would claim is more "PC" run amok shoved down one's throat by the NCAA. It just seems to me this is a no-brainer: why have the fight any more?
Siouxmama Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Why couldn't they just have had a Dr/Nurse party? Nope. Med school would have been mad. How about a pilot/flight attendant party. Wait. Avaition school. Judge/Lawyer? Darn it. School of law. Accountants? ..............Forget it, business dept. Maybe they should just stick to having their formals.
Stromer Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 This was not a good decision. Parties like this happen at other universities, but our situation is unique. My question is what if UND changes the name and then another party happens. Will the NA's claim these students are mad about the logo getting changed and demand punishment? That is a slippery slope to go down. I am inclined to believe they will use this incident for leverage no matter what happens in the logo issue.
SiouxMeNow Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Linky no excuse EXCEPT they're young and stupid which we all were at one time. Even though it was off campus, this is probably the final nail in the coffin of the nickname.
Chewey Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Linky no excuse EXCEPT they're young and stupid which we all were at one time. Even though it was off campus, this is probably the final nail in the coffin of the nickname. God, that's no big deal at all. So a bunch of college people dress up like native americans off campus. Big deal. If there is a party where people are dressing up like Catholic priests and nuns, is that going to be offensive to descendants of people who were persecuted in 1400 or 1500? What a bunch of baloney.
greenwinger_13 Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 I was at this party and to think that these girls were honestly aiming discrimination is out of line... Call it insensitivity or what have you... I wore the theme shirt didn't dress up, didn't feel like it, even if I did it would not have been to discriminate! I come on this site probably 15 times a day to check recent news and follow our hockey team.. I am just as big of a Sioux fan as most of you sorry my post number isn't as high as some big deal there are alot like me. My friends think I have a problem because of how much I know and care about Sioux hockey...To say that you have never played cowboys and indians (excuse my french) as a kid or whatever, means you are either too old or were never social as a child... There was no hurt intended by this party and those of you who think this was the sole ending to the nickname have not followed this close enough because its already gone unless the state or someone besides RHHIT and his tribal crew take a tribal vote that cant be tweaked by tribal council.. These girls go to the indian center next door daily to use the printers and computers for homework and such, I have never heard one negative comment about Native Americans from these girls so give them a break. Why dont you do some research and attack some other greek people for YMCA parties or Western parties, hell gangster parties offend italians... there are alot of greeks at und and plenty of needs for party themes you can go on and on checking it out I am not greek so I can only provide a few examples... Mainly the haters should re-evaluate their stance and look into this a little more and see that these are younger kids who meant ZERO harm to Natives or the Nickname.. I'll be readin the posts but wont be responding to this... You can find me responding to something worth my time like the Madison then Denver.
Stromer Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 I was at this party and to think that these girls were honestly aiming discrimination is out of line... Call it insensitivity or what have you... I wore the theme shirt didn't dress up, didn't feel like it, even if I did it would not have been to discriminate! I come on this site probably 15 times a day to check recent news and follow our hockey team.. I am just as big of a Sioux fan as most of you sorry my post number isn't as high as some big deal there are alot like me. My friends think I have a problem because of how much I know and care about Sioux hockey...To say that you have never played cowboys and indians (excuse my french) as a kid or whatever, means you are either too old or were never social as a child... There was no hurt intended by this party and those of you who think this was the sole ending to the nickname have not followed this close enough because its already gone unless the state or someone besides RHHIT and his tribal crew take a tribal vote that cant be tweaked by tribal council.. These girls go to the indian center next door daily to use the printers and computers for homework and such, I have never heard one negative comment about Native Americans from these girls so give them a break. Why dont you do some research and attack some other greek people for YMCA parties or Western parties, hell gangster parties offend italians... there are alot of greeks at und and plenty of needs for party themes you can go on and on checking it out I am not greek so I can only provide a few examples... Mainly the haters should re-evaluate their stance and look into this a little more and see that these are younger kids who meant ZERO harm to Natives or the Nickname.. I'll be readin the posts but wont be responding to this... You can find me responding to something worth my time like the Madison then Denver. I realize they were not tying to offend anybody. I also realize that it was a mistake and I don't believe they should face penalties because of a dumb decision. However, no matter how good of people they are, they sure did not show any common sense. Theme parties are fine and dandy but there are some limits. This party might not have even been a blip on the radar at any other campus. However, on a campus where the university had tried to demonstrate that there is no discrimination, you can't be doing stuff like this. The name might have already been going out the window but this really chops off one of the few legs to stand on. BTW, I also feel sorry that you don't find this topic worth your time to respond to. Some of us like hockey and some of us like hockey but also are concerned with the general success of the university. To each their own I guess.
Chewey Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 I was at this party and to think that these girls were honestly aiming discrimination is out of line... Call it insensitivity or what have you... I wore the theme shirt didn't dress up, didn't feel like it, even if I did it would not have been to discriminate! I come on this site probably 15 times a day to check recent news and follow our hockey team.. I am just as big of a Sioux fan as most of you sorry my post number isn't as high as some big deal there are alot like me. My friends think I have a problem because of how much I know and care about Sioux hockey...To say that you have never played cowboys and indians (excuse my french) as a kid or whatever, means you are either too old or were never social as a child... There was no hurt intended by this party and those of you who think this was the sole ending to the nickname have not followed this close enough because its already gone unless the state or someone besides RHHIT and his tribal crew take a tribal vote that cant be tweaked by tribal council.. These girls go to the indian center next door daily to use the printers and computers for homework and such, I have never heard one negative comment about Native Americans from these girls so give them a break. Why dont you do some research and attack some other greek people for YMCA parties or Western parties, hell gangster parties offend italians... there are alot of greeks at und and plenty of needs for party themes you can go on and on checking it out I am not greek so I can only provide a few examples... Mainly the haters should re-evaluate their stance and look into this a little more and see that these are younger kids who meant ZERO harm to Natives or the Nickname.. I'll be readin the posts but wont be responding to this... You can find me responding to something worth my time like the Madison then Denver. Well said. I think the party was not the brightest thing to do. The baloney stirred up by the PC zealots is idiotic.
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