UND-USD Rivalry

[Coyote Fan]

I think just because USD and UND are from the NCC and moving up to D1 at the same time that people will think they are going to be rivals. I am not so sure I agree. Most years USD doesn't compete well with UND in football or womens basketball for the major sports. Now that USD's coach is leaving for womens hoops they will likely go back into obscurity again. I get the feeling that UND fans really don't think USD is a very big rival such as NDSU, St. Cloud etc. USD fans really don't care about any rival other than SDSU as it's proven in their attendance. Augie, Morningside and UNO probably are considered at least even to UND or maybe better as far as drawing fan interest. I think it's because of the far geographic distance between the two schools. SDSU and NDSU are much closer and maybe a bit more of a rivalry but even that is kind of forced IMO. UND probably cares about NDSU much more than any other rivalry so I doubt many USD games will bring much of a buzz in Grand Forks. Right now USD's adminstration is totally leaving all of their fans and alumni in the dark as far as what their plans are for transition. I hope that is also not the case up there. There hasn't been any info put out about facilities, scholarship plans and the equity between men and women and the general budgetary plans. I sometimes wonder if they have a plan at all since they really never did hire an D1 advisory firm of any reputation. I think USD should go D1 but I am not very convinced they have a clue to what they are doing. USD hasn't even put on any info on whether they want to partner up with UND so I am guessing maybe they will not partner up in effort to find a conference. UND might want to leave USD behind and go into their own conference. Maybe they can get into the Big Sky as the solo entry from the Dakotas.

[FSSD]

I would not say it is forced, but I do believe that it will take some time to grow. If you look at the SUs rivalry it took off because SDSU and NDSU played in some meaningful games. Plus, both sides won. It was not one sided. I do believe that the same thing will happen for USx at the next level. It is going to take time. I was at the USD/UND game this year in Vermillion and it looked like a large UND group travelled down, plus it looked like one of larger crowds in Vermillion this year. So, I do not think that large crowds will be a problem.

[MplsBison]

The NDSU/SDSU partnership has helped NDSU.

It was rumored that the Gateway only wanted SDSU but that the Jacks wouldn't budge on taking NDSU with them. No idea if that's true or not, but if so it definately helped out.

The last couple marker games as well have finally had that big time rivalry feeling (esp since they beat us last season ).

I think it would be good for not only UND/USD to get a rivalry going, but for the whole Dakota 4 to have a rivalry. Something like a 4 way "Dakota Cup" or something like that for the 4 schools to compete in shared sports sort've like what NM and NMSU do here:

http://www.nmstatesports.com/ViewArticle.d...CRIBER_CONTENT=

[bincitysioux]

Of course it is not forced, these two teams have been playing each other in various sports regularily since 1903. They played for a travelling trophy for 43 years. The reason the rivalry is not as big as it could be, is because there have been few meaningful games between the two schools. As far as I know, USD has only put together a handful of brief time-periods when they were factors on the national football landscape (i.e. the, 50's and the 80's). Well, UND football was pretty crappy at those times. Really only in 2005 and 2006 were UND and USD really nationally competetive at the same time.

Again in basketball, I know USD won a national championship in the early 60's, and have been quite good over the last 12-15 years. UND basketball really thrived from the late 60's to the mid 90's. As far as I'm concerned, the stars just haven't aligned correctly for the two schools to play meaningful games at a time when they both are nationally competetive all that often.

I hope and think that will change here during the transition. These two schools need to market their histories together through this transition. Certainly, next year it will be the most meaningful game on each teams schedules, and probably for the next several years. I give the xDSU's credit for the way they conjured up their rivalry. The NDSU-SDSU football game, which nobody gave a crap about for 102 years really, for the time, has become something special to the fans of those schools, because the administrations of each school commited to marketing it, because there were so few meaningful games, and (probably the biggest reason) SDSU has actually been competetive with NDSU.

The administrations of the UxD's really do need to work together alot over the next few years. Teams are dropping like flies off the UND football schedule, and if CoyoteFan is right USD is more talks with NAIA schools than they should. They need to market this rivalry. Play for a travelling trophy of some sort, or bring back the Sitting Bull. I don't wanna hear any crap about geography either, it takes a whopping 1.5 hours longer to get from GF to Verm than it does from Fargo to Brookings, all a straight shot on I-29.

This thing will develop naturally if both schools just win. But it wouldn't hurt to market it a little when some of USD's home games next year look to be Culver-Stockton and Dakota Weslyan, and some of ours are going to be TAMUK and St. Cloud.

[Hansel]

I don't wanna hear any crap about geography either, it takes a whopping 1.5 hours longer to get from GF to Verm than it does from Fargo to Brookings, all a straight shot on I-29.

GF- Verm = 378 Miles

Fargo-Brookings 190 Miles

So it is essentially twice as far from GF-Verm, To drive 188 miles in 1.5 hrs you would be have to be going 125 MPH- better buy a Valentine One

[MplsBison]

Yeah but Oklahoma/Texas is one of the biggest games in the nation.

When you get a good rivalry, esp in football, people will take the time to travel for it.

[bincitysioux]

GF- Verm = 378 Miles

Fargo-Brookings 190 Miles

So it is essentially twice as far from GF-Verm, To drive 188 miles in 1.5 hrs you would be have to be going 125 MPH- better buy a Valentine One

Damn you Hansel, interjecting with your "facts" again.

I guess my point is, it takes 5 hours to get from GF to MSP, which alot of people do for hockey. It takes 4 hours to get from GF to St. Cloud, which has always been a popular place for UND football & hockey fans. It is a hair over a 5 hour drive from GF to Vermillion, Interstate the whole way. It is a nice place to travel to, and a nice place to watch an autumn football game in.

[Stromer]

Damn you Hansel, interjecting with your "facts" again.

I guess my point is, it takes 5 hours to get from GF to MSP, which alot of people do for hockey. It takes 4 hours to get from GF to St. Cloud, which has always been a popular place for UND football & hockey fans. It is a hair over a 5 hour drive from GF to Vermillion, Interstate the whole way. It is a nice place to travel to, and a nice place to watch an autumn football game in.

I agree with that. Some friends and I made the trip down this year (our first to an away game). Lots of fun, easy driving, saw no cops, and get to see a state that I hardly ever venture into to. Nice atmosphere and good fans. While not a huge rivalry due to the lack of interaction between the schools, it is a fun game. I will be making the trip again next time.

[mksioux]

I can only speak to football, but I think UND and USD have always been rivals, just not arch-rivals. In DI, it will be a rivalry-out-of-necessity at first. Whether it blossoms into a legitimate heated rivalry will depend upon what happens on the field.

My two cents - if they don't bring Sitting Bull back, I'd prefer no traveling trophy. I think contrived traveling trophies like the I-29 marker are stupid. A traveling trophy should have history.

[Bison Dan]

I can only speak to football, but I think UND and USD have always been rivals, just not arch-rivals. In DI, it will be a rivalry-out-of-necessity at first. Whether it blossoms into a legitimate heated rivalry will depend upon what happens on the field.

My two cents - if they don't bring Sitting Bull back, I'd prefer no traveling trophy. I think contrived traveling trophies like the I-29 marker are stupid. A traveling trophy should have history.

Was there a history when the sitting bull trophy was started?

[coach daddy]

Was there a history when the sitting bull trophy was started?

Contrived is a poor choice of word. I think what he meant was, don't create another traveling trophy. either bring back the old one (Sitting Bull) or don't have one. We know that all trophies have to be created to start the process. Isn't there a Bison board anywhere for you all?

[mksioux]

Was there a history when the sitting bull trophy was started?

Yes, there was.

If a traveling trophy was not started when it was fashionable to start a traveling trophy -- or when the teams first started playing each other -- it's going to take time for it to seem legitimate. I'll feel the same way about a new trophy between UND and USD.

[SiouxMeNow]

GF- Verm = 378 Miles

Fargo-Brookings 190 Miles

So it is essentially twice as far from GF-Verm, To drive 188 miles in 1.5 hrs you would be have to be going 125 MPH- better buy a Valentine One

the ndsu-sdsu "RIVALRY" is just as contrived as a "UND/USD" one will be...no one gives a *hit about the Dakota Marker except the poor suckers who have to take care of that boat anchor....nice to see another college dominate ndsu for a "rivalry trophy" though! Bet they hate that....

[Bison Dan]

the ndsu-sdsu "RIVALRY" is just as contrived as a "UND/USD" one will be...no one gives a *hit about the Dakota Marker except the poor suckers who have to take care of that boat anchor....nice to see another college dominate ndsu for a "rivalry trophy" though! Bet they hate that....

How's the transition to DI going?

[UND-1]

How's the transition to DI going?

Its going fine, D1 starts next fall. What about it isn't going good enough for you?

[Yote 53]

Coyote Fan, more doom and gloom from you? Do you sell funeral plots for a living? Just wondering.

I can tell you first hand that UND is a rival. Someone said it best when they said we are not arch-rivals. Our arch-rivals were our respective ag institutions. Since they cleared out of the picture the UND/USD football game has taken on more and more significance. One only needed to be in attendance this past year to see that. USD had virtually no shot at the post season and the place was still full and electric, one of the best games I've attended. I'm sure the Sioux fans who ventured down would agree with that statement. As we venture on and these games remain competitive, like they have the last 3 years, the rivalry will heat up more and more. We've been playing each other for over 100 years, ones perspective on the rivalry depnds on what era you came from. I think old timers see the rivalry much differently and more relevant than some of the younger ones, but I will say that I think it is taking on much more significance on the current student bodies (at least in Verm).

As for travelling trophies, Sitting Bull had a long history that dates back to the fight the two Dakotas had over the late American Indian Chief's remains. The trophy was steeped in history and meant something special to the team that took it off the field (at least it did on the USD side, since we saw so little of it as of late). The trophy existed for 43 years, not 43 minutes. It was not contrived. I say bring it back, but that will never happen. Given that, I do not think it would be innappropriate to replace Sitting Bull. Unlike other schools, we do have a history of playing for something. Heck, it should be easy to come up with something. We've fought over territory capitals, whose state was first, human remains, you name it.

During an ensuing struggle between Sitting Bull's followers and the police, Sitting Bull was shot in the side and head by police after they were fired upon by his supporters. His body was taken to nearby Fort Yates for burial, but in 1953, his remains possibly were exhumed and reburied near Mobridge, South Dakota by Sioux who wanted his body to be nearer to his birthplace. However, some Sioux and historians dispute this claim and believe that any remains that were moved were not those of Sitting Bull.

1953, interesting year. When did we start playing for the Sitting Bull Trophy? I'd say it was steeped in history and if the trophy did not exist I would be a poorer man for not learning about Sitting Bull, his life, what he meant to the Sioux people, and his place in history.

[Coyote Fan]

Yote53,

You are probably right about being a bit too negative with my posts here. It seems I am not the only Coyote fan or fan of another school that is wondering what is going on internally at USD with the move. There seems to be alot more questions right now than anything. Maybe I am jumping the gun too much with this. This has been a tough year for football and mens basketball considering what the expectations were for both and I think it's taking a toll on me as a fan. In all honestly the Womens basketball team is doing a pretty good job of subsiding the pain a bit. Yote53 I am every bit as positive as I am negative but people always point out the negatives that people say. Thats just human nature I guess. I would like to hear some more of your thoughts when you agree with what I write. If you are going to point out the negatives you should also point out the positives as well.

[Bison Dan]

Yote53,

You are probably right about being a bit too negative with my posts here. It seems I am not the only Coyote fan or fan of another school that is wondering what is going on internally at USD with the move. There seems to be alot more questions right now than anything. Maybe I am jumping the gun too much with this. This has been a tough year for football and mens basketball considering what the expectations were for both and I think it's taking a toll on me as a fan. In all honestly the Womens basketball team is doing a pretty good job of subsiding the pain a bit. Yote53 I am every bit as positive as I am negative but people always point out the negatives that people say. Thats just human nature I guess. I would like to hear some more of your thoughts when you agree with what I write. If you are going to point out the negatives you should also point out the positives as well.

Do you think there's any chance that USD may decide not to go DI and return to DII?

[Yote 53]

Do you think there's any chance that USD may decide not to go DI and return to DII?

None. USD is committed to D1.

[Coyote Fan]

At this point in time it would be a PR nightmare to the USD community for them to turn back now. As much as many SDSU and NDSU fans would not like their respective flagship schools to go to D1 it is wishfull thinking on their part.

Thank goodness USD is going D1 is all I have to say.

[Bison Dan]

At this point in time it would be a PR nightmare to the USD community for them to turn back now. As much as many SDSU and NDSU fans would not like their respective flagship schools to go to D1 it is wishfull thinking on their part.

Thank goodness USD is going D1 is all I have to say.

Why now? If it's so great why not when SDSU went?

[Sal Atticum]

Do you think there's any chance that USD may decide not to go DI and return to DII?

I just wish there was a chance UND would decide not to go DI.

[mksioux]

I just wish there was a chance UND would decide not to go DI.

Keep wishing....

[bincitysioux]

The rivalry will heat up when our men's basketball team upsets USD next week in Vermillion, and our women win the NCC Tourney and start celebrating on your floor like your ladies did on ours this season!

[Coyote Fan]

The rivalry will heat up when our men's basketball team upsets USD next week in Vermillion, and our women win the NCC Tourney and start celebrating on your floor like your ladies did on ours this season!

I never take the attitude of being angry if another team celebrates on USD's field or floor. If they won they deserve some celebration. It shows they care. If my team loses I don't focus on things like the other team celebrating etc. but rather what my team needs to do better or what could have been. USD should have been celebrating after getting the win just as other teams should celebrate on USD's floor if they win. That is unless it gets tasteless. Now if someone went out and spit on a logo or streak their shoes across it that would be a different story. Augie was celebrating on our floor just a few days ago. I was congradulating their fans and critisizing my own team. I guess that is just my nature.