UND-FB-FAN

Ha, that’s a good one. You proposing the REA has significantly depreciated? Certainly not to any degree where it would significantly change the underlying concept. So maybe from 100 years to break even to perhaps 50-70 years?

You’re correct, football is the #1 most profitable collegiate sport, but it requires large stadiums; not 10k-20k like FCS North Dakota and North Dakota State support.

As mentioned, I think the lack of communication and leadership from the CC and AA is contributing to the lack of funds from football alumni and potential donors. Heck, throw the coaching staff in there too, because wins matter as does their outreach. UND just doesn’t appear to try hard enough, or, dare I say it, they hired people not competent enough for the job description. Again, we can agree to disagree, but I think hockey is profitable only because of the $100M gift they received from Vegas. Sure, it’s sustainable, but not projected to break even for nearly 100 years of hockey. Profits are only around $1M per year, but yet the investment was $100M? Doesn’t add up. Sure, there are non hockey events that add to the $1M annual profit, but not significantly. Bottom line, you’re not going to get a bunch of profit with UND athletics, so it just comes down to where you allocate the funds. Either way, UND hockey won’t be losing their $100M gift/facility, so they’ll be at an advantage even if they lose some of their unnecessary funding to und football. Heck, hockey (and the fans) would barely notice if they lost 500-1000k to football.

The niche that is college hockey does not have a promising track record, particularly as the primarily funded sport. NCAA division one college basketball has significant viewership and revenue potential. Baseball, Lacrosse, and hockey all have their challenges (again, if considered as the #1). The proposed solution, as I understand this an important prerequisite for you, is less money for hockey and more for football. This seems like the more realistic option since it’s quite obvious hockey will never be replaced by football at the University of North Dakota (although this would be my second proposal since you like two).

I apologize, but @The Sicatoka actually mentioned girlfriends as an attempted slight, and I just replied truthfully, albeit perhaps too truthfully. My career path took me down a path away from coaching, but never say never. With that said, my more likely contribution is as an ongoing alumni booster / donor, like most on this board.

Hockey’s notoriety rides on the shoulders of a Vegas family. It will always be a challenge trying to sell a not-so-big-time sport as the big-time sport, but at least we can agree that football needs more prioritization. And I should clarify, the challenge will be (and has been) elevating the other sports, not hockey itself.

Perhaps you should honestly consider a trial of anti-hockey baggage, because right now your quick dismissals aren’t giving you the opportunity to experience what you’ve been missing.

But what about the self-righteous hockey mogul from Las Vegas? Do you think her family’s involvement has implications in the success you speak of, because it certainly does, and overlooking that is beyond a convenient way to navigate around controversy. And yes, UND football could desperately use a major benefactor right now to push it to the level of NDSU football. But waiting for this mysterious person to appear is going to likely take too long … Lastly, no girlfriend issues, we shared. Hockey players were good guys. Sharing is caring. Earning my degrees from UND was a “fun” time, to say the least.

The alternative is wait for football to reach hockey’s level, and that won’t happen anytime soon with the current format. Is it robbing Peter to pay Paul if Peter shouldn’t have had it in the first place? We all know the culture around UND; this scenario will never happen, but the status quo will continue to put UND football on an uphill battle. Increasing funds for football will help (no doubt), but unprecedented leadership for football is what will ultimately take it to the next level. This includes the HC, AD, President, and certain donors/boosters/alumni. Need a visionary, but it takes more than one person; need a group of special people looking out for UND football, despite hockey being the unfortunate centerpiece.

So it can be spent on *another* hockey locker room renovation? No thanks. Priorities need to be clarified. Would anyone from the Alumni Association or Champions Cub even acknowledge such donation? Based on conversations I’ve had, as well as personal experience, I doubt it. University of North Dakota needs better leadership and direction, first, then we’ll see how it goes. And as a disclaimer, this isn’t a one time donation or single donor issue; it’s a systemic issue, so don’t point the finger at me.

Ironically, you’re formulating a comprehensive evaluation, and ultimately a final assessment, based on information you received on a forum. That honestly doesn’t make me feel any better; it is quite ridiculous, actually. Aren’t we supposed to be relying on experiences, you say? And again, your reply takes my comments again out of context for your own personal gain according to your (incorrect) biases. As for “complainers, whiners, and those who seem to find fault with most people who are ‘in the arena’ succeeding or failing“, can they not ever be correct? Are their viewpoints and conclusions instantly null and void? Because the logical answer to that is of course no, yet you seem to be trying to push a false absolutism. I can’t agree with that. To transition this back over to UND, some of the complaints we hear are valid. Communication with and appreciation for certain supporters and boosters could be better. Allocation of resources/funds could be better.

This is a blatantly incorrect propaganda statement, but good try. Big Ten emphasizes and funds hockey over football? That’s laughable.

I agree with you. NDSU has a leg up on UND because they’re funding with a contemporary model that works for North Dakota. UND continues to be in a DII mindset with everything revolving around the pathetic minority sport of hockey. Now, with that said, did NDSU royally screwup with their fiscal responsibility? Absolutely, and they should be held accountable.

You clearly are not comprehensibly reading, nor truthfully considering, the issue. I’ve already addressed your concerns with previous comments. I said “we all need to look ourselves in the mirror“, but it still ultimately is not our job. It is OK to recognize and acknowledge that the University of North Dakota staff needs to do better (a lot better) with outreach and recognition.

Petty counter-argument, taking everything out of context.

I disagree, and you’re just not seeing it. Your blind followers on here don’t see it either, but they believe you, so try not lead them off a cliff. What I am referencing? UND athletic department, Alumni Association, and Champions Club are all absolutely ignoring people. They are not doing their job, or at least they are subpar at it. And sure, I do agree that we all need to look in the mirror to fix it, but that shouldn’t be the case; the folks paid to get the job done should be doing it. Instead, we get the constant rhetoric on here that we should step up and fix it ourselves.

Results matter; and again, the truth hurts, especially on this forum, evidently. Ol’ fashioned complacency, and long time supporters oblivious to the underlying collapse from within. With all that said, I’m hopeful for a 180.

Results matter. What you’re saying sounds good on the surface, but it just doesn’t correlate with reality. Relatively speaking, UND athletics staff is not out-working the competition, which is what matters. It’s not just quantity of hours, but quality. And there’s several potential donors that UND fails to connect with, possibly because they share your perspective that they should avoid certain “criticizers” and, ironically, they perhaps rush to judgment too quickly. Looking at what UND does is quickly skewed if you fail to recognize the competition and what other regional institutions are doing.

Honestly, you could review this forum and in just 10 minutes have a list of 10+ tangible solutions. The issue is not that there is a lack of ideas or concepts, but rather that the leaders at the University of North Dakota currently are lazy, or so it appears that way. They are not looking to work above and beyond, but rather keep UND at the status quo. Alternatively, there are hidden agendas a play, keeping UND football behind where they should be.

If “done correctly” is the key statement here. It hasn’t been figured out since Englestad’s $100M gift. Basically, since then, it’s been spite all other athletic programs for hockey.

The cash cow is the state of ND, not hockey. You think hockey runs the show? Not. The issue is the politics and influences it has on Chaves and the administration in regards to their priorities.

True. Have to have donors demand excellence and funds matter. ultimately, I think we’re saying close to the same thing and we understand there needs to be more administrative leadership (vision) and also backing from the supporters (donors). This is perhaps obvious but it just isn’t at the level needed for UND football to take the next step

We can agree to disagree. You’re just repeating your same old argument, also, which I adamantly disagree with. At the FCS level, you’re not going to have a lucrative funding model with a bunch of revenue. That’s reserved for FBS football with large stadiums. Bottom line, collegiate athletics requires major investment/funding to begin with, and is not typically a huge return on the investment, especially in ND. Large football and basketball programs certainly do produce a lot of revenue for the NCAA and their respective institutions, no question, but those programs aren’t in North Dakota. Hockey has a return because there was a huge investment in the form of a gift from the Engelstads. It would only be a surprise if an $100M gift *did not* produce some revenue.

UND with greater revenue than NDSU, yet the two football programs are on completely different levels. Again, my previous post holds true. UND and UND athletics are not allocating nearly enough to football. Remember, hockey hockey hockey, !@#$ !@#$ !@#$!

Spot on, UND football is (unfortunately) not the priority and hasn’t been since the Engelstad foothold circa late 1990s / early 2000s. This ship needs to be righted. President Kennedy attempted to fix it, as he clearly identified it, but was booted. Chaves (and apparently Armacost) aren’t even attempting to bite the hand that feeds them. Cowards, and a poor prognosis for UND football, unless donors like those on this board rise up and state otherwise with our words and our wallets.