UND-FB-FAN

You did read what I wrote, right? “How does St Could State and Duluth out-compete the better funded UND year after year? Funding is not the whole story, but nice try. Funding is just a piece of the puzzle. UND hockey could and would still differentiate UND despite a 10-20% reallocation and UND would better position themselves in the region with FCS titles. If UND is winning FCS titles, then NDSU and SDSU are not. “

No, you’ve misinterpreted my posts, I’m afraid. Hockey can get donations, but to accept a deal that relegates the other non-hockey sports, when in fact those other sports are more highly recognized on a national scale, is unideal. I don’t hate hockey, but using hockey to dismiss the other sports is foolish. Hockey should be on equal ground with football and basketball; that’s not jealousy, that common-sense and evidenced-based as per national trends. As for differentiation, having a major hockey program in an $100M arena will always differentiate UND from other athletic departments. But what they don’t do for the other sports - mainly football and basketball - in order to uphold hockey is the issue. Football and basketball need to be elevated, and thus keeping UND hockey head and shoulders above the rest is not a progressive comprehensive approach moving forward. But what you said the last paragraph I’ve said all along. Many folks rehash posts without reading what has already been posted. There are many factors beyond funding.

Your assumption that UND hockey would degrade is the issue. There’s no evidence it would get any worse by reallocating 10-20% of funding. In fact, could they get much worse? The past few seasons have been petty the way it is. How does St Could State and Duluth out-compete the better funded UND year after year? Funding is not the whole story, but nice try. Funding is just a piece of the puzzle. UND hockey could and would still differentiate UND despite a 10-20% reallocation and UND would better position themselves in the region with FCS titles. If UND is winning FCS titles, then NDSU and SDSU are not. And I don’t think hockey’s model is one easily replicated; how long we gonna have to wait for another $100M donation to come from a single donor/trust? And will it be directed towards a non-hockey sport in full? I doubt it.

It’s standard place for football to receive the major donations in terms of collegiate athletics in the U.S.A. It is NOT commonplace for hockey to receive the major donations. Public opinion matters because that is what fills the seats. UND and greater GF region consistently fills the REA, but regionally and nationally speaking, UND has become more and more irrelevant of late in other sports because they aren’t funded (nor focused on) at the level needed to excel. It’s not all just about filling up the REA, which many are content with cause that is done year after year, but it’s about pushing the brand forward regionally and nationally. That will increase enrollment, recruiting, and further perpetuate success. Football and basketball are far more popular nationally than hockey, so those other sports absolutely matter. So to answer your question, yes; a $100M gift to UND football would do wonders for UND athletics as a whole, but that surprises no one. You get what you pay for.

You sure must be a hell of a leader … Do you realize UND hires people to do what you’re suggesting? Obviously not, albeit it’s fair to argue they’re not getting the job done. It’s okay to use a forum to communicate with passionate fans about ways to encourage more support, but as your replies indicate, there will always be some “fans” who don’t get it.

I won’t be choking on sh*t; if that happens. I’ll be attending the games with a smile and congratulating the staff each step of the way, from the blue turf to the Alerus Center as the piss yellow fan base exits in disappointment. With all that said, I can also be realistic. The direction of the program is worrisome - more so due to the lack of support from Chaves and the hockey-centric mindset enabled by Engelstad gift(s) - but there are things that can be done to fix it. Since @Sioux>Bison is too sensitive to read comments about that on here, I guess I’ll have to move it to other forms of communication, which I have no problem with.

You’re beyond paranoid if you think this forum is a major player in recruiting.

The whole point of a forum is “talk”. You can’t “do something” on a forum, but you can set forth the foundation and discuss ideas. Nice try, though.

This demonstrates you’re too short-sighted for your own good. Visibility of the issue never hurts, and trust me, my efforts certainly don’t stop here at “SiouxSports” - never have, never will. Thanks, but really no thanks, for the concern, though.

Yeah, okay, and you think there will be credibility to follow this response … ?

And you know that how? It’s terribly ironic you respond with that considering your “contributions” are neither ground-breaking or promotional. So, in effect, what are YOU going to do to bolster UND athletics? Now that is where the ZERO things comes into play. I’ll sit back and read your non-sense, but absolutely no reason to respond to your garbage anymore.

You can believe what YOU want to believe, to fit your narrative. Sound familiar?

Okay, Mr. Elaborate Defense. I’d venture to guess you preferred the ruling issued by the court of public opinion in this case …

The deal unequally benefits hockey, and UND is behind other regional universities because of it. UND athletics is basically a hockey club at this point - sad. But you’re right, they give lots of money, so they must be saints. Case closed … Ha ! Ha ! Ha! As for facts and figures, it’s not just me, so stop pointing the finger. quite obvious which sport is more popular in this country, and thus, the more obvious investment. Hockey vs football? Basketball vs hockey? Pretty easy answers when looking at the numbers. At least keep hockey on equal grounds with football, not unfairly advantaged year after year.

“Ralph Engelstad Arena, a $110 million gift from her father to the university, was completed in 2001 as the new home to UND hockey. The arena, contracted to be turned over to UND in 2030, was just one topic of many discussed in a wide-ranging interview between McGarry and Forum News Service. McGarry requested the meeting.” “According to her, Kennedy characterized the arrangement made between the university and her father, Ralph, as written to the benefit of the donor at the expense of UND.” “(He said) my dad made a bad deal when he first gave them this gift,” she said, a comment Kennedy said he doesn’t recall saying. The school eventually retired the Sioux name and logo at the behest of the NCAA and now officially uses the Fighting Hawks nickname for its athletic teams. But the Sioux logo still remains in the Ralph, embedded in marble floors, and on seats and other fixtures. Because of that, McGarry said, Kennedy has accused the family of “creating brand confusion” for the school, a charge she views as unfair. source: https://bismarcktribune.com/i-want-to-see-him-do-his-job-kris-engelstad-mcgarry-describes-hostile-relationship-with/article_35608880-d9e5-5293-b78c-231b98677ae8.html In 2018 and 2019, Engelstad spoke publicly about her strained relationship with Mark Kennedy, who at the time was UND's president. The Herald reported in 2019 that Engelstad said the foundation wouldn’t give direct funds to the university until Kennedy was no longer president, though it continued to support student scholarships and the hockey program. Kennedy left UND in May 2019. Source: https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/north-dakota/engelstad-foundation-crosses-500-million-in-giving-kris-engelstad-hopes-to-strengthen-relationship-with-und Kennedy was right. He knew what needed to be done to right the ship and help out football, and quite frankly make funding fair, but he was ousted due to public outcry, stirred up by Engelstad. When called out, though, they would still fund hockey, just nothing else, which is basically the current arrangement now that all is good again for the hockey moguls. You think the Engelstads walk on water too, I see. You’re easily convinced, but that’s no surprise. And I don’t find my desire to improve UND football hilarious, but thanks for posting your opinion, @siouxfan512. And as for numb comments by @jdub27, you think it’s a coincidence Kennedy left for Colorado in 2019? That’s the real hilarious piece in all of this. Ha! Ha! Ha! Why don’t you read up on some facts and get back to us. Thanks. Easily manipulated like the majority of GF was back in 2018-19 … shame, shame, shame.

agreed, but I think we all know how it went and what he would say … … money talks, and gf and the und community still think the Engelstads walk on water

Agreed, but recruiting is connected to, and made easier with, more support for UND football. We all are arguing for the same thing as UND football supporters, which is good, but we just all have a different opinions on how to go about it. We should be thankful complete and utter apathy has not sunken in … yet. As such, I’m just quite adamant that complacency and continuing to bolster hockey is not a solution anyway you spin it.

I agree with you. President Kennedy tried to address this but was ousted when the self-righteous Vegas hockey mogul cried to the press to allow for conviction by the court of public opinion. UND made a deal with the devil due to the dollars, and, as such, non-hockey sports have struggled ever since; particularly with the increased funding needed for DI excellence. Change is needed, and we as supporters and advocates for UND football need to push for it. Chaves is not getting it done as of now, he’s appeasing and not biting the hand that feeds him.

More personal critique, while skipping over the concerns that have been spelled out several times over. The philosophy - whether implicit or explicit - is to devote majority of time to hockey, conversely limiting the time spent on football. This is obvious in more signifiant scenarios like fundraising, football specific events like watch parties for away games, communication with alumni and Champions Club members to update on goals and inquire on more specific support, package deals for away game tickets or home game tickets, etc. to more smaller yet relevant items like subpar gameday experiences, misprinted/errors within gameday programs or delayed roster update, or lack of media coverage of UND football. Again, these issues are largely confronted as a byproduct of “UND is a hockey school”, but if that is the case, then don’t expect UND football to take the next step. We will be supporting (and donating) to a capped program that will forever live in mediocrity. There are ways - starting with philosophy, vision and effort, and ending with more funding, however - to elevate the program. Sitting on our collective asses and “giving it more time” is the last god damn thing that needs to be done. As for specifics on athletic department dynamics, those are questions to be asked to the athletic department leadership. I’m not the AD, I don’t know the specific structure and assignments because I do not work in the department, I just have observed some details and the subpar results for several years. Ultimately, don’t forget, the devil is in the details.

Time will tell … holy sh*t, unreal complacency is breeding the mediocrity we see; change never being imminent is one of the primary concerns, along with funding and focus. The same folks who run the athletic department and extend a 5-6 coach (career .500) are the ones who do not devote specific efforts toward marketing and fundraising for football. Department does absolutely overlook supporters that collectively could make a huge difference. @nodak651 with a short but true post demonstrating significance of 10k donors. These are absolute realisms. We as supporters need to realize it to start pushing the correct buttons moving forward for UND football to take the next step.

True. More funding, more effort by leadership (AD and his department) towards football, and expectation improvement. As mentioned before, UND doesn’t dare make a change at any leadership positions, including head coach, and it shows in terms of complacency and mediocrity.

I did. I have. Numerous times. Suspect you read on back. The direction and philosophy … again … is of concern. Some of ya’ll are broken, I swear, or on repeat for a ruse.

To quote the entire piece: ”Much of the staff is lazy, clueless, disinterested, when it comes to UND football. They do just enough to get by, not enough to ascend the program. That is not the case with hockey. Hockey is given more time, above and beyond. There are several champion club members (some of 10+ years) that are never contacted or communicated with. If they were appreciated, they would potentially donate more. Why aren’t they contacted? Laziness and/or lack of departmental philosophy/vision; hence those descriptors being used. These “small fish” are ignored just so administrators can make the same phone calls again and again to large donors only to be said no to on numerous occasions. You should be able to visualize the issue now, I hope. Recognize the FB supporters and search for more. ” “much of” certainly does not mean everybody, particularly the specific names that you provided. That is where the misplaced and misinterpreted comments came from. Implying that I am specifically calling out certain individuals is uncalled for. Also, departmental leadership and philosophy is at play here, so don’t hyper-focus on the work ethic piece.

Wow, incredibly twisted and misplaced. Misinterpret much? Again, when you push where it hurts, people start to get personal. Ridiculous, but reaffirms I’m on the right track.

No “just”, still a very important donor category. Back to task at hand, hoping to produce better results for football, with better backing, funding and prioritization, and in turn, produce more following for UND by actually competing with NDSU (not letting them walk all over UND). Focusing on hockey is the “easy button” - NDSU doesn’t even sponsor that.