yababy8

You're stealing my thunder.. One of my points was going to be just that. In 1997 how many guys from that squad went on to have big time NHL level careers? I not only ask this question because we have a banner from that year but more because that team had an ability to completely take over a game with its forwards leading the way. I can vividly recall us being down by a couple of goals past the halfway mark in the National Championship game and not even being concerned about it because I knew that the team just kept going and going and eventually would break anyone with their speed and skill up front. It was so fun to watch... This team reminds me of that team more than any since then. The DOT line team,'06-'07, was right there but they were more of a could get rolling on you at any time team. In 97 like this year it is more about a rhythm that seems to work itself into a crescendo the further into the game they go. Its like they solve for the opponents game plan and crack their defenses and methodically take them down. Now this was only going to be one of my points. I am also looking forward to discussing their skating AND puck moving skills from inside the circles to down low. Then on to their fast break/rush abilities, maybe a little about play making, i.e. getting open looks!! It's about time on that one! There is a bit of a list to draw from I think...

Changed my post a little to clarify... ...its not about knocking them at all. It's a talent assessment question. Some rate them as not being loaded with talent. I think they are loaded with talent.

I say yes... While it seems most everyone sees this squad as a hard working and effective group of guys I notice some, both fans and press, rating this years offensive group as average with respect to talent. Given this I have been feeling compelled to start this thread and get a fun little debate going- nothing better than a, 'how good are we debate' when we are really good. :-)- I intend to write up a critique and make an argument that they are one of the better group of forwards we have had since 1997. I will do that later when I have a little time to do it right. I am curious what others think? How do you see them comparitively? Of course they are not a forechecking, tough along the boards juggernaut like many Sioux squads in the past but I think they have some assets that in many(not all) of the other years in the said time frame we have been lacking. As a sneak preview to where I will go with my arguements I will throw a few words out there that speak to what I see when I watch these men play the game: Dynamic, fast, craftly, team work, stick work, measured, rythmic, finishers. I didn't choose any of those adjetives lightly or in a cavalier way. I think they stand out from other teams in these areas... Discuss..

Tell you what: call up your good friend reality and get him to join you in going to visit any professor of statistics at the University of North Dakota home of the fighting Sioux and ask them if making the statement, "There is 'diffiitely' ZERO percent chance that [the Sioux change the name back] will happen" would qualify you as one who doesn't live under a rock.

The ones that went Baaaaaaaahh!!!... ..How many example situations would you like me to provide from the infinite group of scenarios? Go SIOUX!!

I'm not going to say never but I very rarely use the word never. It's just not smart to do so. I think I've read it a hundred times in the last year on this site and in the press. honestly it's the same stupidity that caused us not to be able to effectively fight to keep our name. Way too many weak sheep in the herd...

which way would you all take the bet on that in the next 50 years we get our name back?

I love how everyone speaks like it's an absolute positive no chance for any other outcome, a hundred percent guarantee, 0% chance of changing, the truth of all truth, rule of the universe fact that there is no way the University of North Dakota athletics will ever ever ever ever never never never never again be called the Fighting Sioux.

Just looking at hotels in Boston. Looks like they are New York level prices. $250-$350 a night! Yikes!!

I hope that if we make it there are bazillions if Sioux fans. I was in St.Louis, Denver, MSP and Philly. I was a little disappointed in the fan turnout in Philly, the rest were good. MSP being awesome of course. Obviously this has everything to do with proximity but Im hoping Boston can surprise... They team is committed. Let us match that.. Go Sioux!! ...Yababy!! It's time for me to change my name!

How well do you think the Cubs would do if they were made to change their name? Ya wanna catch a pups game? Go pups!! It would be start over time with respect to name brand...

Focus: High school sports vs collegiate sports "passions"; apples to oranges? Yes!, Why, see my post on the last page...

No, the point was whether or not high school and collegiate sports followings were apples to oranges. Not where the locus of the passion lies... You are wanting to have a new debate about how significant the nickname is in the overall investment of passion? Oh and you want to have a debate about Arkansas state's transition compared to the predicted transition North Dakota would experience if we get a new name? What about the debate we were supposed to be having??

As soon as you concede that highschool and college sports followings are different I will be more than happy to tear the Sh*t out if this one... One at a time though. Its like A.D.D. land debating with you. Its 9 am and I'm tired already. uggg!

With each post you make you are making a different point. Where the locus of the passion lies is irrelevant to our debate. The question at hand is the validity of the comparison you made between the Highschools and UND. You can argue it might effect the future outcome of how well UND fans transition away from the the Sioux name and into a new one- i.e. because the name is not what they are passionate about, and in fact it doesn't matter what the nickname is, the passion lies in the institution separate from the name... That, once again would be a separate debate... This debate is about whether or not the highschools you referenced to as an example were apples to oranges. -Do we need to have a logic conversation about why 'apples' and 'oranges' were the chosen entities in the saying "apples to oranges"?? OK.. They are both foods and they both grow on trees- similar, yet they have differences- taste and texture etc. The whole point of the saying is to point out errors in logic like the ones you made and are now continuing to make. Once again, you could be absolutely correct that both your examples(the three high schools) and a university such as UND have a locus of pride that lies in the institution significantly more than the name hence UND fans would as a group have a similar experience in the name change to your high school examples. My point is that there are inherent difference between high school and Collegiate sports in the relm I pointed out in my last post that make them apples and oranges. You can argue all day long that the taste and the texture don't matter here and its all about growing on the tree and eating it that keeps the apple and the orange in good stead with the gatherer. Just know that as you debate the merits of the tree you absolutely lose the debate that the apple and the orange are not different because no matter how much you pound your hand against the sand exclaiming they are both fruits it will never change the fact that they taste different... ...now to to pull from your request to me way back at the beginning of my defense of my asseretion that your insidious comparison was apples to oranges; 'please keep on topic' So again, I say there are differences. I outlined some of the many that I could list in my previous post. Don't tell me how you dont believe they matter. Tell me I am incorrect about my description and we are in fact just looking at a bunch of apples? Or better yet, since you cannot reasonably do that, be reasonable and concede that high school and collegiate sports followings are apples and oranges. Then you can go back to what you really are trying to say. -That you think we should get a new name so people stop using the Sioux name- and all of your reasons why that is a capital idea...

One illogical assertion at a time please. Regarding your highschool comparison. There are many ways I could approach this one but the quickest way to make the point is to say that with respect to high school sports the only people that have passion, and yes it is passion that we are taking about here, are effectively the kids who are currently attending there and the parents and staff. Before you go off arguing how you know this guy that still cares about his high school team admit to yourself how idiotic your comparison was as you think of the 50 people you know(just like the rest of us do) who are committed passionate fans of their college sports team. People take great pride in where they went to college. It often becomes a big part of their identity for the rest of their life. I lived in Kansas City for 5 years. There you are KU or MU. My father in law has a tiger tail on the back of his truck and a blow up tiger in his front yard for game day. I couldn't tell you what high school he went to to save my life. In any big metro area you can't drive a mile without seeing a miriad of bumber stickers or license plates with alumni or pride or some other reference to universities. I,as well as millions of others, fly once a year at least to go to my colleges hockey games. I have been to St. Loius, Minneapolis, Denver, Colorado Dprings, St Cloud and Philadelphia to cheer on my team and have been doing so for 25 years. Every time I do so I see thousands of others doing the same thing. I haven't been to one of my high schools games in 25 years. And BTW I was a huge supporter and fan of my high school teams when I was there and high school sports were big time at my high school, bigger than most. The basketball arena at my school was bigger than the old Ralph and I can remember it filling up an hour before game time back when we were top ranked in the state. People got into it but there is no lasting power in it. It's just to local and very little adult identity is deriven from it. It simply has no lasting power. It can be described as a phase or a stage. How often do you hear people talk about their highschool teams? I have lived in 5 big cities in the US in my life and I can say I pretty much never hear such. Given the transient and fleeting nature of high school sports passion it is very understandable that people transitioned to a new name because you're looking at a significant (about 90%) turn over in your fan base every 4 or 5 years. Therefore it is simply silly to compare how a collegiate fan base would adopt new changes compared to a highschool fan base.

I get that you think we should move on and you know I couldn't disagree more. I agree with your request and never intended to obfuscate this debate(education) with such tangents as it would serve no benefit to me to do so. However you need to do the same and I am inclined to point out that when you said, "we need to move on" you did exactly what you are asking me not to do as such a statement has nothing to do with the merits(or lack there of) of your comparison... Now before I begin, one last chance for your to concede that your high school comparisons to the Sioux name are ridiculous?

Sicatoka, when it comes to hockey analysis I see you as one of the top posters on this site so I know you're not stupid... Are you really going to make me have to spell out the difference between the apple and the orange? Come on, I don't have time for this?#%%

If you looked up the definition of apples to oranges in the saying dictionary there is a good chance you would see this^ post.

I couldn't disagree more with this.

I hear ya! Kind of like when individuals and the media site the vote where the people of North Dakota voted down the measure to keep the Sioux name as evidence to suggest that North Dakotans want our name to no longer be the Sioux.

Still looking for help here?

Need help; Anyone remember an article written a few years ago that discussed attendance comparisons between Sioux games vs other non NCAA hockey programs? If I recall Duke basketball was one of them. I need that article... Also can anyone think of a good article in the past comparing the Minnesota vs North Dakota hockey rivalry to the biggest in all of colligate sports? Oh and one more thing, does anyone recall if there have been any dealths associated with said rivalry??!? Looking for a home run here? I need data, am in the middle of a holiday family gathering debate... Save me from having to make random edits to Wikipedia to win my argument...

I think its time to make some new hats cause I'm putting "I heart gfhockey" on mine! Gf, you're the most!!

Thanks CIA, but I was just being silly. I didn't mean for you to take the time to look that up. Lol