dagies

Great articles, Pat. I echo jk's sentiments on your abilities. How can anyone argue with Tim Oshie's perspective on the nickname? I guess maybe he's been hanging around the fort too much.....

I agree. At this point, however, I feel like punching back and if there's a chance this could lead to the NCAA paying damages to UND for slander, or whatever the legalese allows, I'm all for it, even if in the end the name goes. If nothing else UND can defend their good name against the NCAA, and a chance to at least recoup some $$ that will have to be spent eventually to change the name. Because yes, I agree with you that all the NCAA would have to do is say "we believe the use of American Indian names to be inappropriate for use a sports nicknames, and therefore blah blah blah".

Nope. Not much of a BB fan. But I get your point.

Even more than the Fighting Sioux nickname, it astounds me that "Warriors" is considered inappropriate.

I'm glad we got this settled. We can keep the current logo, and change the name to "Warriors" or "Braves". Since the logo would not depict a "culture" but a Sioux warrior, we'd then be ok. In searching for the definition of an Indian "brave" (turns out to be "a North American Indian warrior") I found a link to a paper that all, including you, GrahamKracker, should read: Paper

Another question. When UND hosts a regional at the REA, how much money does the NCAA get? I have to admit I'm questioning whether I'll be keeping my Frozen Four tickets. I hate to support the NCAA in any way after this.

Thanks, NDH. Godspeed, to an old FIGHTING SIOUX.

I think that was quite a while ago and since then there's been more talk of MN being involved in the chase. Based on what I read on the internet there doesn't seem to be a clear frontrunner for his services yet.

One day you will look back on this and understand that your efforts were totally misplaced.

At this point I as well am sick of the continuing controversy over the nickname. I was one who was all high minded but when I read the decision I have to admit my thoughts were more like jk's. After I sleep on this I think I'll be a bit more rational. It's been suggested by others but at the moment, of the various options, I like this idea. WIN the lawsuit, then drop the name like a hot potato. I can't decide what I like next. I like the idea of no name at all. If we can't have the one we came to the party with, we'll just do without. I love my Sioux jersey and I plan to keep wearing it regardless. I also like the idea of picking an "appropriate" name. So Fighting Cav is in by me. I can't imagine what would be more hostile and abusive to the native americans than that, but it's good for the NCAA so it must be good for the native americans. I also like the idea of keeping the logo and changing the name to another tribe that is more than happy to be represented. Fine, we don't NEED you, Sioux. My biggest problem with that is I like to be original, and names like Chippewa are already being used. Oh, so much to consider. But fine, if you want to take your ball and go home, fine by me. Just don't wonder why you're standing in your yard all by yourself.

Sorry, buddy. But if you think UND giving up the nickname is going to provide one iota of difference you are so sadly mistaken. You've just got the wrong issue.

Amen.

I think you're probably right. And maybe I should have stated it as people urging SL to support the nickname. I would guess the pressure from the "other" side is much greater, however.

I think Kupchella provided them with documentation of an "official position" did he not? Sounds to me like the NCAA is frustrated with Spirit Lake as well. They're not getting what they wanted, and what they so desperately need....Spirit Lake's revocation of support. Spirit Lake is tired of GrahamKracker, UND, and the NCAA all busting their chops for not throwing support in whichever direction. If ever I would feel empathy for a group just going turtle and ignoring the rest of the world, it's the SL tribe.

In 2 Buc Bowl games Mario Lamoureux lead his team in scoring with 2 goals and 1 assist with a 0 +/-. In 1 regular season game he has only 4 PIM's to register on the score sheet. In 5 BCHL games so far Darcy Zajac has 1 goal and 3 assists and is tied with about a billion guys for the team lead in points at 4. Playing defense for Vernon, Chay Genoway with 2 assists in 5 games and 11 PIMs. I Ranger mentioned Gryba: Paul Shaheen Column on INCH

VandeVelde with 1 goal in 1 game so far for Lincoln in the regular season. He's scored on .333 of his shots. In the Buc Bowl, Chris played in 2 of 3 games and was the 3rd leading scorer with 2 goals and 1 assist and a +4. Marto with no points in 1 game, with a -1 +/- In 3 Buc Bowl games Jake had 1 goal and a -1 +/-

You asked... Committed Recruits Tracking Thread

I'm not sure why but I find this strangely encouraging. It would seem the council isn't interested in airing this stuff publicly any longer. They're being barraged by the other tribes, that much is already clear. If they were just going to pull back their support for UND using the name, I think they wouldn't mind that being done in a public forum. Seems they want to have a quiet discussion with Kup, and that makes me think they might want to make sure they have a forum conducive to discussion, and not a public forum. Maybe they want to hammer out some concrete conditions upon which their support would be based. Yes, apparently some of that has happened in the past, but maybe this time the expectations would be more clear. Kupchella can agree or disagree to meet whatever those conditions are. And they figure they can't have that kind of meeting with GrahamKracker in attendance. Who knows. I'm reading a whole lot into this. Just a gut feeling.

There's so many good teams in the WCHA that I think this team will take its lumps, but it sure does sound like it will be a fun team to watch. Can't wait!

That's how I read it.

If having Sioux as a nickname and a logo causes racism, imagine the indignities caused by having a self-propelled teepee named after you.

I've wondered about this too, and I think Kupchella alluded to that concern in his first response to the NCAA where he mentioned something about tribal support coming and going. I don't remember his exact quote, but basically he referred to how it can change from time and time. Primarily I want to retain the nickname, however it happens. But my preference would be a decision that did not hinge on tribal support, because I think that has a better chance of putting the issue to rest for the future.

Thanks for mentioning this, Diggler, as I've had the same thought myself for some time. That's how life was back then. Groups pushed each other around and the strongest got what they wanted. I've no pride in how the US Government dealt with American Indians at time in history, and I wish the dealings had been more forthright. But the various tribes and nations weren't compensating each other for what they took from each other either. That's the way things worked back then. I don't see that as relevant to the nickname discussion. Nor do I see the complaining about using the word Sioux, which apparently hasn't been a problem even for American Indians to use for an awfully long time. I'd like to know if if Larry has a problem with this