star2city

To get this thread back on track, Nebraska-Kearney has a strategic plan available on the internet that includes objectives for its athletic department: UNK Strategic Plan As a current member of the RMAC, UNK's strategic plan runs countercurrent to the RMAC's desire to reduce Div II scholarships (see Objective B below). "Continuously evaluate athletic conference affiliation" in Objective C would not be listed if there were not higher conference aspirations (NCC) or at least some dissatisfaction with the RMAC. Objectives A and B would be required for NCC membership. As per normal for athletic departments, financial issues are probably delaying their desired conference upgrade (to the NCC).

This story was reported this morning in the Fargo Forum: UND to investigate Allen An excerpt:

Compared with how other schools have handled coaching selection processes, the Dale Lennon to Sac. State possibility was handled with professionalism and integrity by UND: The process was open to the media - on both ends No public relation games were played to

This is such a contrived story in the FORUM that it should make everyone ill.

An attempt to answer these questions: In California, tuition in the CAL STATE system is very low for residents (< $1000 / semester). With California having nearly 40 million people and only seven I-A programs, a tremendous amount of football talent is available locally. There is no need to recruit out of state and pay scholarships at non-resident rates. Scholarships essentially pay just room and board for residents. Is I-AA worth the risk? No, but a school like Sacramento State has tremendous potential beyond I-AA, but is very high risk. Positives -Can work toward a Div I-A program - Sac State has designs on getting in a conference with Fresno St. or San Diego St (low Div I). -Recruiting of skilled players relatively easy -Sacramento is one of largest US cities without a major college or pro football team -One or two winning seasons could spark significant local interest and get politicians interested in building a football stadium Negatives -Poor facilities, literally have to build from the ground up -Will be compared with UCal-Davis -Mainly a commuter school with low student interest/loyalty -Cal State Universities have a history of shutting down football programs if they bleed too much red ink (CSU-Northridge, Long Beach, Fullerton etc) It is literally a 'California or Bust' deal.

SDSUFAN: We seem to have a failure in communication. I was not inferring that you were disrepectful of President Miller, but I was expecting you might assert that I was disrespectful by asking these unanswered questions: Why has SDSU's decision been postponed to Dec of 2003? Why would SDSU need to play some football and other games in Sioux Falls? Wouldn't relocating home games to Sioux Falls detract from Miller's stated goal of creating a Div I environment? In what form are Miller and SDSU working to increase the economic viability of Brookings and South Dakota, other than increasing the student population and expanding the SDSU bureaucracy?

Here are a couple of sites to follow the Lennon situation: Sac St. Hornets Message Board Sacramento Bee - Hornets Sports Couple of questions about the coaching situation: Was Lennon upset that UND is staying Div II when the Stumbling Herd annouced its move, and is he still upset? Does Lennon aspire to coach at the highest (BCS) level, considering the rewards and the downside ? If Lennon were to leave, would Randy Hedberg be considered, or have too many bridges been burned after Lennon was hired?

Its great that there is Canadian recruiting going on again. Without Manitoba or Saskatchewan recruits, UND is at a geographical disadvantage. Is there a list of the ten or twenty top potential recruits in North Dakota? Would Sundby of Cavalier be in that group?

From the Argus-Leader article: The time-line keeps getting pushed back. Originally, the submittal was to occur this fall, then December, then by August of 2003, and now December of 2003. This timeline ensures SDSU will be in the NCC for the 2004-2005 season, as the NCC would have to be informed of a membership withdrawal by Sept 1, 2003. There still has been no word on a conference, which SDSU has committed to having in its hand before moving. Forming a new conference will be the only real alternative, so SDSU will really have to be dependent upon other current Div II schools moving up over the next few years. Possibilities to make a conference with other declared Div I schools UNC, NDSU, and UVSU : NW Missouri St., C. Missouri St., Grand Valley St, Ferris St. In the meantime, recruiting will suffer and even forming a new conference is a high risk / low return proposition for a decade. For SDSU or USD, Sioux Falls is the key to making a Div I move successful. But in order to become 'the' team in Sioux Falls, either school would have to partially sell out to Sioux Falls' interests. Moving games to Sioux Falls would detract from the stated goals of enhancing a university environment. SDSUFAN, Are the above and previous comments disrespectful of Miller's and your dreams for SDSU? You want us to respect your vision for SDSU, but you equate USD's vision to an 'outhouse'. Money can fix almost any of the issues that have been brought up about SDSU's athletic future. But there has got to be a continual spring of money, not just the $2.5 mill gift that will be burned up in a year of two of Div I. For a community like Brookings and SDSU alumni to pony up that kind of money annuallly when there are so many pressing needs for economic development, dissent is not unhealthy. Although it is still premature for UND to move, Grand Forks and UND infrastructure continue to get upgraded. Although Herald readers have already seen this, others probably haven't: Alerus Center Development Alerus Entertainment Complex At some point, Div I in all sports might be additive from a dollar and marketing perspective to UND, Grand Forks, and North Dakota. Until that time and a decent conference affiliation is in hand, a move is premature.

Ralph Engelstad Q&A

Let me get this straight: An NDSU fan, bisonguy, starts this thread by stating the recruiting of the Dahlen twins is a coup over UND and more such signings will occur just because NDSU is going Division I, in spite of the ineligible time. I post a FORUM article on the extreme difficulty a successful NDSU wrestling program will now have to recruit. This article refutes the premise of the thread and someone takes offense at that? Because UND does not have a wrestling program, that somehow makes the subject matter off limits for discussion, when the whole issue is Div I and the transition difficulties? The article and the posting did not attack or degrade the wrestling program. The posting was just further evidence that the new NCAA rules on transition time to Division I will be a major impediment to improvement or could possibly even devastate athletic programs (whether that is NDSU, SDSU, or UND). Even NDSU and SDSU leadership would seem to concur with these statements: NDSU has acknowledged a level of risk in their decision and SDSU is attempting to mitigate the risk by gaining conference acceptance before pursuing Div I.

A SIGN OF THE PRESENT

The postings, including this one, are veering way off topic, but the above quote is just begging for a rebuttal. The financial burden of Div I college hockey always seems to get ripped on this site by external (non-UND) posters. But is this a reality compared to a sport like football? For St. Cloud and Mankato, what would be a greater burden, Div. I hockey or Div I- AA football? Hockey income: 16 home games, 5000 people/game, $10 / ticket (avg) = $800,000 in ticket income +$200,000 concessions/other Hockey expeditures: 20 scholarships, travel, coaches etc. = $1,200,000 Net Loss to be made up by school/boosters= $200,000 Div II Football income: 5 home games, 5000 people/game (At SCSU/MSU-M), $10 /ticket = $250,000 in ticket income + $50,000 concessions etc Football Div II expenditures: 35 scholarship, travel, coaches etc. = $1,000,000 Net loss to be made up by school/boosters = $700,000 Div I-AA net loss to be made up by school/boosters = $1.1 mill Moving to Div IAA would only increase the football losses as St. Cloud's and Mankato's football facilities would need major upgrades. They would have to double attendance to maintain their existing losses. Financially, it just does not make sense, even if they play a $400,000 guarantee game with Nebraska and get pulverized. Furthermore, how many Division I athletes are leaving Minnesota on hockey scholarships? When that exodus is compared with football, it would be crime to consider Div I football in Minnesota before Div I hockey. If St. Cloud, Mankato, or even (don't laugh) Augustana dropped football, they could viably consider Div. I in all other sports if their boosters 'bought' into it. Football is where the big money is drained out of Div II AD budgets. There are a few exceptions: NDSU in years before 2002 when drawing less than 7000 spectators was unheard of.

Kolpack doesn't make the case. But if you're a journalist, why does logic have to be involved? Kolpack is just looking for vindication of NDSU and jabbing UND fans,as witnessed by this quote:

Sure enough, the FORUM articles last Sunday on Chapman were timed right before the North Dakota Board of Higher Education meetings in Wahpeton yesterday and today. The Agenda did not seem that controversial, but there are always underlying issues that are never included within an Official Agenda. I wonder how much the Board is reviewing the Div I decision informally. By the way, the Agenda does include the Boards approval of architect fees for the UND Wellness Center . From the Bison Insider Message Board, there is this posting:NDSU AD Leadership This is only one opinion, for whatever that's worth, but the pressures from the fans, President Chapman, and the media on the Div I issue, conference affiliation, losing football, and 'tolerance' have got to be tremendous. This would especially be true for someone who is not familiar with North Dakota culture, tradition, and politics. Just a few more reasons to be thankful to be a Fighting Sioux fan.

What are the three NCC home games next year?

One would think they'd be open to playing us as, of course, the Fighting Sioux: Attendance - Opponent 12,499 - - - - Winona State 10,260 - - - - Augustana 19,042 - - - - North Dakota Fighting Sioux 8541 - - - - MSU-M 6126 - - - - UNC 6768 - - - - SCSU But then again, a Div I team won't want to tarnish its 'image' losing to a Div II every year.

One can't help but wonder how pleased the nine members of the State Board of Higher Education are with this action. For the NDSU Student Senate to bring it up is one issue, but for paid employees of the state to take an action diametrically opposed to the Board is another. Can the NDSU athletic department spell i-n-s-u-b-o-r-d-i-n-a-t-i-o-n? For the NDSU athletic department, what with the Div I fiasco, the timing could not be worse. For UND, no amount of public relations would have resulted in the out-pouring of public support for the Fighting Sioux name. Thank you, NDSU AD and Student Senate!

Apologies for confusing Russ and Chuck Archambault. It seemed like just yesterday that Clem Haskins was at Minnesota. Here was Chuck's bio at TAMU-CC: Chuck

Hope this hasn't been posted before, but the following are quotes from the Augustana student newspaper: NCC schools leave D-II ranks From the Northern Iowa AD: On NCC Expansion from Augustana AD Bill Gross:

The above quote from AD Fred Oien would seem to confirm what JBB has said previously: UNC, NDSU, and SDSU are seriously looking at forming a new non-football conference. There are very limited options to get to six members. Although very speculative, this is what the AD's are probably looking at: American Outback Conference (travel partner arrangements) NDSU - SDSU UNC - Utah Valley State Texas A&M@Corpus Christi - Texas-Pan American There are only three other schools moving to Division I that, at present, do not have conferences: Savannah State, Morris Brown, and Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne. The first two, Savannah State and Morris Brown, want to get into the Mid-Eastern conference with other traditionally black colleges. IPFW does not have as much scheduling problems as the Texas independents because there are perhaps 30 Div I schools within 200 miles. Texas A&M-CC and UTPA are so frustrated with not being invited to an existing conference, they might actually join even though both are full Div I members. If either would get invited to any other conference, they'd be gone in a nano-second. Has Gene Taylor been on any trips to Texas recently?

NDSU will probably attempt to put together a similar deal, but, with the current state of the football team, at least in the near future they won't be in a very strong bargaining position. This deal may not be as difficult to replicate, as cable access with Mid-Continent is non-exclusive (or I would presume it to be), and WDAY-TV could provide the feeds. Forum Communications, through WDAZ, is a party to the Fighting Sioux Sports Network, so certainly it has no pretenses about working with UND if it can turn a buck. But with its extensive media properties in Fargo, it is very much has a vested interest in NDSU's future Div I 'successes'.

There were two articles in the FORUM today on NDSU President Joseph Chapman. The timing of these articles seems really strange to me, as if they are intended to deflect criticism of Chapman. The owners of the FORUM/WDAY/WDAZ/WDAY-AM are definitely part of the monied establishment of Fargo, which have a Div I NDSU as a primary goal. A few suggestions, and, wham, print articles and media stories with a certain end-goal in mind could appear. NDSU, state spending to keep Chapman [url=http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=22791] NDSU's fourth-year president says he

Apparently, the financial problems in the athletic department were not severe enough to keep UMD out of the NCC in 2004. The increased scholarship costs in the NCC for UMD will be significant.