star2city

Elmerduf: Thanks for the info from Fort Collins. A CSU Div I hockey team doesn't sound realistic in the short-term, but I do wonder what CSU's response would be if the WCHA approached them, rather than the CHA. Membership in the CHA would not be very financially rewarding, but WCHA membership would, what with almost immediate rivalries with Denver and CC and revenues that could probably pay for the extra women's sport. Only if CSU started hockey would I ever envision Utah also starting Div I hockey. If Div I hockey is ever to grow more in the west, it would seem the WCHA would have to take two steps: (a) make a commitment to expand and eventually split into two conferences or affiliated divisions, and (b) rework the scheduling with travel partners so that Friday/Saturday home games are against different opponents (more like Hockey East), allowing every team to visit every arena every year. These changes would meet great resistance, but it's probably the only way for western hockey to grow.

Bisonguy: Remarkably, I am almost in complete agreement with your statements. Div. I probation and delayed eligibility, as has been discussed on Siouxsports, is a huge barrier to Div I Conference acceptance. I would only add that the conference affiliation reached in the near term will probably be a loose confederation of other Div I independents or orphans: TxAM-Corpus, Tex-Pan Am, Utah Valley St., IP-FortWayne, and UNColo. How will the casual NDSU and SDSU fans react when they find their home basketball schedule in 2004-5 is filled with the above teams, or even teams from the Mid-Continent? To me, it takes highly committed fans to endure an independent or weakly-aligned conference schedule.

Bisonguy: It's good to see you actually researching Div I conferences. I agree with you, as the MOValley has been incredibly stable over the last two decades and only major changes in the college sports landscape would cause it to seek expansion. The Horizon has much more potential for near-term (2-5 year) changes. My point since last September is that, for reasons of geography and population, it is extraordinarily difficult for any North Dakota-based school to get accepted into a decent existing Div I conference. Only by partnering with a Minnesota school and by leveraging other assets (WCHA membership) could UND get into a decent Div I conference. For these same reasons, NDSU's chances are even more remote, as they have almost nothing to leverage. What has been absolutely incredible is that the Fargo media and the NDSU athletic department have, until now, consistently offered up the Horizon League and the MoValley as possible conference options to the Big Sky. No one within the bison community has stood up and challenged what is clearly propaganda and misleading statements. If a Sioux fan such as myself states truth, it is rejected violently by certain bison fans. Finally, bisonguy steps up and says the MoValley is a pipedream. Truth is finally prevailing. I have hope for you, bisonguy.

Seems to me this football conference with the schools exactly identifed was mentioned earlier. Sure enough, it was:

Note: This does lead up to and relate to the Div IAA topic. Perhaps it

How about this for a dressing down of NDSU

There are over 150 Div II football teams in 2003. The following Div II 'power' conferences would almost certainly be in favor of retaining high scholarships: Gulf South Conference (12 schools) Lone Star Conference (13) Mid-America Conference (10) North Central Conference (8) South Atlantic Conference (8) Great Lakes Conference (11) They are not a majority, but neither are the Big Six conferences within Division I. If these six conferences are the rule-makers in a Div-II-A, 40-45 scholarships would not be out of the question.

From reasonably reliable sources, Kyle Nelson is being heavily pursued by South Dakota State. It sounds as if Craig Nelson has not yet received much serious NCC interest.

At first glance, I did not like the idea of attaching a basketball facility to the Ralph, especially if refurbishing the Old Ralph remained an option. But on further review, it makes more and more economic sense. Economic benefits are more than beer/vendor sales, as suite annual rental costs would be increased, booked events would increase with little overhead increase, and actual basketball attendance would almost certainly increase, even with higher ticket prices. Consider these figures: Hyslop avg attendance Men

Getting this thread back to the topic. This quotation from Roger Thomas seems to have been ignored in the above debate: To me, what Roger Thomas is advocating is a splitting of Div-II much along the lines that Div-I is already split. For example: Div-II-A : Allow 40-45 football scholarships Div-II-AA: Allow 15-20 football scholarships Div-II-AAA: For non-football playing Div II schools Take the 24 team playoff, split it in half, and have 12 teams in Div-II-A and Div-II-AA playoffs. Div. I would probably even kick in additional money just to keep Div II teams in Div II. Everybody is happy, as each institution can more naturally find the level of play best suited to their own needs. A similar structure already exists in Div I to separate the Davids from the Goliaths, why not in Div II?

Big Sky Officials will always be in denial about this, but they seek expanded media coverage in cities such as Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Denver. The media market they want coverage in, more than any other market, is Denver. To them, a two paragraph story on the seventh page of the Denver Post sports section is worth much more than headlines in the Fargo Forum or Grand Forks Herald. So, in spite of UNC having absolutely pathetic attendance at any other event other than football, Big Sky Conference officials and presidents crave the minor coverage that Denver media would bring if UNC joined. Is it any coincidence that UNC has not been forward in pursuing the Big Sky? There is a certain benefit to UNC in being coy about their real desires, as they are being patient, playing hard-to-get, not over-extending their bargaining position, and not appearing desperate.

Denial came from the Sport Geek Column of the NDSU Spectrum, as well as a later article by the TOGA guy in the same newspaper. To me, denial is contained in this quote by Gene Taylor: If athletes are being touched during or after a game, it was, by definition, out of control. Denial after denial came from JBB. (Side note: When was he banned? I'm sure NDSU public relations is heaving a sigh of relief, as are most of the readers of this board! ) If the sanctimonious stand on the Sioux name by the NDSU athletic department and the NDSU student senate had not been made, this story would have been less of an issue.

For any event, there are no totally unbiased, non-slanted reports, if the reporter is human. What is undeniable is there were problems, as stated even in the NDSU-leaning Fargo Forum (below), which quotes an NDSU-protecting Gene Taylor. Combining this information from the NDSU Spectrum articles and Gene Roebucks radio statements, and allowing for a slant by all three sources, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there were serious crowd issues.

Siouxrock: Since you go to Red River and play hockey, were you at this party? Will you have to go on probation? Partying sends one to hospital

Bad Eagle: If courage is at the root of being a warrior, your position is in good company. Here's a 1978 quote from Alexander Solzhenitsyn about the weakness of the Western World, and it seems to apply even more today:

When you've got Keystone Kop-like characters, the writing justs flows. Bisonvilla and President Chopman, keep the laughter flowing!!

Actually, you stole the plot line for the next planned episode: Why the visiting women's basketball teams at the BSA will continue to be touched and groped when the big-money Buffalo Teammakers are seated behind them ! P. S. Even the FOX Network rejected this episode out of poor taste.

The Herald article from yesterday states the Old Engelstad may be demolished to make way for the Wellness Center. Can someone explain the apparent change in plans by the athletic department for the Old Engelstad? Is the Old Engelstad structurally unsafe and too expensive for refurbishment? The Old Engelstad would seem ideal for BB: more and better seating and still with a Hyslop 'feel'. Is there an intent to move BB to the Alerus? UND WELLNESS CENTER: Officials focus on three sites

I seem to remember the anti-Sioux name clique citing Billy Mills as an opponent of the Sioux name. Is this correct?

Episode 2: During an evening volleyball match between the Bisonvilla Buffalos and the Siouxville Dakotans, Bisonvilla AD Sailor, Women

The following television pilot, in the tradition of Coach, Dynasty, the Wizard or Oz, and the Simpson's, was recently awarded a Gold Star at the NDSU Writer's Conference. Note: all characters and events are fictional. Any semblance to real life people or events is entirely due to the imagination of the reader. Pilot, Episode 1: Bisonvilla U President Chopman and AD Sailor are in a quandary. Their athletics program is in a funk. Their formerly emerald green, with envy, university is now screaming yellow with rage. Their rival, Siouxville U, is surpassing their program at almost all levels: championships, media coverage, quality of athletes, character of athletes, buildings, and attendance. They put their heads together and decide to call in the old sage of Bisonvilla athletics, JB Doofpsus (JBD for short). JBD, considered to be a modern-day wizard/ curmudgeon, is widely known in Bisonvilla circles as he travels from event to event in his Holiday Rambler. During tailgating, Bisonvilla fans just love to sit at JBD

Since the universe of athletic directors and conference commissioners is quite a small, I am not at all concerned about what the NCC or NCAA says. However, as stated previously, perhaps you should be concerned about what the Horizon, Mo Valley, and Gateway Commissioners think about these incidents, as your non-independent future depends on them. Not exactly a good position to place yourselves in. Last Thursday, the NDSU Spectrum posted another denial by a toga-clad student, who had a most wonderful time at the game directly behind the bench. The contrast in school newpapers is incredible: the Dakota Student is written with a far left agenda, while the NDSU Spectrum is written from a libertarians for debauchery perspective.

There is a comprehensive High School Hockey ratings system at this site: Mitch Hawker Ratings, much like the college basketball RPI. A team like GFCentral, which played weaker lines for extended times against low rated schools like Wahp/Breck, gets hurt when it does not to run up the score. For comparison sakes, Central beat Warroad, the Mn Class A champ and was rated ahead of Anoka, the Mn Class AA champ. There was also a discussion of GFC on a Minnesota High School Board: How would GFCentral do at Minnesota State? The ratings for the top twenty teams (out of 275 in MN-WI-ND) are: RANK TEAM ---------------------------------------W L T GmPerf Sched Total Last 5 1,Eden Prairie,MN,___________________ 22 3 3, 2.4, 10.1, 12.46, 12.64 2,Roseville,MN,______________________ 23 3 2, 2.5, 9.5, 12.00, 12.35 3,Holy Angels,MN,____________________ 24 2 2, 3.0, 8.6, 11.60, 11.53 4,Bloom Jefferson,MN,________________ 18 6 2, 1.4, 10.2, 11.60, 11.11 5,Eastview,MN,_______________________ 16 8 4, 1.0, 10.4, 11.40, 11.08 6,White Bear Lake,MN,________________ 21 6 1, 1.6, 9.8, 11.38, 11.02 7,Warroad,MN,________________________ 25 2 1, 2.7, 8.7, 11.37, 11.58 8,Moorhead,MN,_______________________ 20 2 5, 2.1, 9.2, 11.33, 12.07 9,Edina,MN,__________________________ 23 3 2, 2.0, 9.3, 11.29, 11.26 10,Apple Valley,MN,___________________ 18 7 2, 1.2, 9.9, 11.13, 10.59 11,Grand Forks Central,ND,____________ 26 1 0, 2.9, 8.2, 11.05, 11.61 12,Elk River,MN,______________________ 20 6 1, 1.8, 9.2, 11.04, 10.56 13,Anoka,MN,__________________________ 22 4 1, 2.1, 8.8, 10.94, 11.42 14,Coon Rapids,MN,____________________ 21 5 1, 1.8, 8.9, 10.73, 9.72 15,Duluth East,MN,____________________ 14 10 4, 0.6, 10.1, 10.71, 11.86 16,Chaska,MN,_________________________ 13 12 2, 0.4, 10.1, 10.55, 10.93 17,Blake,MN,__________________________ 21 5 1, 1.9, 8.5, 10.44, 9.43 18,N St Paul,MN,______________________ 22 5 0, 2.1, 8.3, 10.41, 10.15 19,St Cloud Tech,MN,__________________ 21 4 2, 2.1, 8.3, 10.39, 9.57 20,Hill-Murray,MN,____________________ 19 7 1, 1.1, 9.2, 10.39, 9.82

While still awaiting UND's schedule for the fall, former NCC member UNC issued their schedule. There are only four I-AA schools that they will play, all away. Overall, their schedule is probably weaker than last years, as they play such powerhouses as NMex Highlands, W Wash, and Western St. Apparently, scheduling as a I-AA football independent is not all that easy. Opponent - Location New Mexico Highlands - Greeley, Colo. Western State - Gunnison, Colo. Idaho St - Pocatello, Idaho Minnesota State, Mankato - Greeley, Colo. Montana St - Bozeman, Mont. Western Washington - Greeley, Colo. Florida Atlantic - Away - TBA Adams St - Greeley, Colo. Southern Utah - Cedar City, Utah Augustana (S.D.) - Greeley, Colo. UC-Davis - Davis, Calif.