gjw007

From http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...FTOKEN=89836666, "NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor said because the Bison belong to the Summit, they would have to follow the league

The same site that lists Iowa State versus North Dakota State on December 30! Hopefully by the end of tonight they will know the difference.

What is the current score and time?

Unfortunately it happens on the hockey boards as well but to be fair (think about the attacks on the goalie), I don't it is nearly as bad as the attacks that are occurring on Bisonville as they are extremely personal that posters have pointed out that players parent and POTENTIAL recruits view the board and may turn them off. Constructive criticism is one thing but the personal attacks should be out-of-bounds.

I tried but can't into the system. From the sounds of it, I'm not missing much.

Possible but too early. Strange things can still happen.

Can we avoid the UND versus NDSU pissing contest please? I am more curious to read what people think about the opponents. I would expect Bisonville to reflect highly on the Bison and Siouxsports to reflect highly on the Sioux. So please let me read what people think about the opponents for UND here and I will read what the Bison think about their opponents on Bisonville. For a more neutral reflection, I will read anygivensaturday.

Agreed. If people wish to think that D1A football is the same as D1AA football which have different scholarship levels and objectives (Bowl games versus championship games) then nobody is going to change their mind so isn't it time to move on (some people appear to be hung up on the D1 that is in front of the A or AA and forget the A's). I can appreciate the desire to have the team compete at its highest ability.

Maybe but given that Minnesota was a really bad team last year but the question is who is it that the fans and the team are going to get more satisfaction from; beating Central Michigan or Minnesota? I think there's always a better chance to beat Central Michigan on any given year than Minnesota. How many times has NDSU played Minnesota and beat them?

I disagree. That's like saying NDSU's win over Minnesota was empty because it didn't win the national championship. I think most people would argue that App St's win as well as NDSU's win over a Big Ten team is special.

Didn't you know, reality is just a state of mind And yes, if you say D1 to the average football fan, they're thinking Florida, Miami, Michigan not UNI, NDSU, or UND. The change is labels isn't gong to change this, at least not for awhile assuming the NCAA keeps with it for 3 or 4 decades.

I don't think it matters but I really don't know why some people seem to think that all D1 programs are the same. It is amazing to read people imply that the Bison are in the same division as Ohio State without a qualification. It is true for all sports except football where there is D1A (or FBS if you prefer) but even here it can be broken into the BCS and the rest, and D1AA (or FCS). If they are the same, why the different labels and different allowable scholarships? Dave K is essentially right but does it matter? People are going to label these whatever they want and most people, especially those who are knowledgeable, will know there are differences in the levels between the Bison of NDSU and Badgers pf Wisconsin. Even in D1 sports without subdivision, are teams in conferences like Duke in the ACC the same as teams in conferences like the Sun Belt? Collegehoops has these listed in different tiers, http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/preview/200...rence/index.htm, recognizing even here there are differences. This suggests that although the Bison and Wisconsin may indeed be D1 programs, they are not at the same tier.

It can be a great marketing shot in the arm but only if a team is successful.

Yes, that would be good since I live in the DC metro area I can actually go see a game!

NDSU should be congratulated for its success in the 60s and 80s much like UND should be congratulated for its success. There are more factors than just scholarship. UND and NDSU both had long streaks of success when playing at equal scholarship levels (and also periods of less than stellar performances). NDSU fans on this forum seem to think that lowering the scholarship levels lowered their level of play against other teams with the same scholarship level but they also ignore other factors such as the coaching staff. I think it is funny to suggest that the lower level of scholarship made you play worst but I do think the overall lowering of scholarship, D1, D1AA, etc., had the effect of having more talented players spread among different teams rather than one team stockpiling them. As such, it makes coaching that much more important. From this there is an implied implication by NDSU fans that its coaching then wasn't up to the challenge. Many UND fans think that its coaching in the 80s by Behns wasn't up to expectations. NDSU is to be congratulated for beating Minnesota last year but I think its teams in the 80s would have beaten Minnesota the last 2 years and the same for the UND and NDSU teams (and most of the NCC) from the 70s.

Let's not tease the NDSU fans that get on this board. Frankly if NDSU (or any other D1AA team) did get a bowl bid, good for them.

Is that the primary purpose of sports? You even admitted to being inconsistent. From http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=1352; The Association - through its member institutions, conferences and national office staff - shares a belief in and commitment to: * The collegiate model of athletics in which students participate as an avocation, balancing their academic, social and athletics experiences. * The highest levels of integrity and sportsmanship. * The pursuit of excellence in both academics and athletics. * The supporting role that intercollegiate athletics plays in the higher education mission and in enhancing the sense of community and strengthening the identity of member institutions. * An inclusive culture that fosters equitable participation for student-athletes and career opportunities for coaches and administrators from diverse backgrounds. * Respect for institutional autonomy and philosophical differences. * Presidential leadership of intercollegiate athletics at the campus, conference and national levels. Even the NCAA has its listed purpose as something else. I can't help but wonder if your view is really that narrow or its just to be argumentative.

The reality is that the whole NCC couldn't move up; it's just a reality check. I disagree that the only purpose of a conference is an auto-berth; it is a benefit not the driving force.

I understand the difference but I also understand that by the definition that you used the GWFC doesn't meet your definition as a conference in which case if you say now that it is a conference then you are inconsistent by your own definition.

You would have a lot more credibility with this argument if the Great West Football conference had an auto-berth. It's much too narrow a view of a conference. By your definition, if the NCAA opinion is the only one that counts, then we must consider what the NCAA thinks of NDSU's status. You can find it on this NCAA site, http://web1.ncaa.org/memberLinks/links.jsp?div=2 - it's under the 'Ns'

Yes. NDSU fans that keep talking about how the NCC should have gone D1 - a DI all-sport conference that wouldn't have an auto-bid to march madness, ncaa baseball, volleyball, etc, etc, etc. even now after NDSU/SDSUs 5-year transition. Do you have a problem with that? I have yet to read of any NDSU fan that had a problem with the whole NCC going D1. Most people understand that a new conference or one moving up has a period where they don't get the autobids. Reality check, do you really believe that UND's men's basketball team is going to the NCAAs soon? If so, then you have more faith than do UND fans. The lack of an autobid is one of the prices that has to be paid. Just curious, what do you feel a conference is? Let's make the premise that it is a new conference. Be very, very careful and remember what you stated and consider the Great West Football "Conference" when you answer because it violates everything that you stated above (okay, so you limited it to an all-sport conference). I can't help but think the responses have been by NDSU fans standards so what NDSU does is great (non-autobid GWFC) and what UND does is bad (non-autobid GWC). The truth is that they effectively the same - different school, different time period, same methods.

So true. I think that the fact that one school, take your pick, has success encourages the other school's team with the result that the each team gets better.

Guarantee is too strong a word but highly likely perhaps.

Dan, nothing is guaranteed when trying to arrange a schedule with independents. You might be correct that these particular teams might be easier to schedule but to state that you could always schedule them is wrong. Nothing is that certain with independents. I would have thought with the experience between UND and NDSU where it was always thought that the two teams could and would always schedule each other for various sports - a comparison that has shown that it is not always the case - would have provided some enlightenment on the uncertainty of scheduling but from your comments, I guess not. Again, its interesting that from NDSU's fans perspective that it is good when NDSU schedules teams like the NJ school but bad when UND does.

Wow! The reality as an independent is that you are always uncertain about the ability to schedule games even with other independents. A conference, or scheduling alliance, whichever you wish to call them as all conferences, new or old, are scheduling alliance at their core, insures a certain amount of scheduled games. The fact that you wish to have UND have difficulty scheduling games speaks volumes. From your perspective NDSU did this for football and basketball and it is good; UND does this and it is bad. Enough said!