NDSU football schedule

[bisonguy]

An explanation behind St. Cloud's schedule-LINK ( Bonus Link on the LINK page- Find out who the new celebrity for UND boosters is)

I doubt NCC scheduling will be any prettier next year

NDSU's D-I move affects St. Cloud

By Jeff Kolpack

jkolpack@forumcomm.com

The Forum - 04/09/2003

North Dakota State

[GDM]

I was there. Bohl showing up to meet Dale Lennon was far from the highlight of the day.

Lennon reported that UND has sent their open dates in football to every DII in the country looking for an eleventh game. No takers.

[bisonguy]

GDM,

Has Lennon tried any IAA's to fill out an eleventh opponent?

[tony]

What kind of guarantee was UND offering?

Most DII teams can't afford 36 scholarships so it's hard to imagine them taking a hit on a plane trip when they can take a bus someplace closer.

As for DI-AA teams, they can get six figure guarantees for playing a good DI-AA team or a low-level DI-A team.

[GDM]

That's what he said. No more, no less.

[UND92,96]

An explanation behind St. Cloud's schedule-LINK ( Bonus Link on the LINK page- Find out who the new celebrity for UND boosters is)

I doubt NCC scheduling will be any prettier next year

NDSU's D-I move affects St. Cloud

By Jeff Kolpack

[tony]

Man, you guys are too easy on him. NDSU fans would have asked at least asked him that. Then the Forum would demand to see all his emails, snail mails, phone transcripts, credit card receipts, results of polygraph and blood test, a list of witnesses, and a sworn affidavit from all the presidents of all 140 or so DII schools affirming that they did receive the invitations.

I can imagine the scene in the average DII AD's office upon receiving Lennon's letter:

"Omigod, Stan! Lookee here! We got a letter here from NOTRE DAME!"

"What? Don't sit there yapping, you gosh dern fool, open it up!"

(sounds of ripping) "Um, let's see what it says, 'Dear sir, enclosed please find a list of our football team's open dates as well as several coupons for free appetizers at the Applebees on Columbia Road, redeemable if validated at the Alerus Center, usable only in conjuction with purchase of an item from the dinner menu. If you are interested, please drop us a line at 1-701-766-7825. Sincerely, Dale Lennon. Head coach, University of..." - what the sam hell! - 'North Dakota!?!' Let me look at the logo again..."

[jimdahl]

[Elmerduf]

"Omigod, Stan! Lookee here! We got a letter here from NOTRE DAME!"

"What? Don't sit there yapping, you gosh dern fool, open it up!"

(sounds of ripping) "Um, let's see what it says, 'Dear sir, enclosed please find a list of our football team's open dates as well as several coupons for free appetizers at the Applebees on Columbia Road, redeemable if validated at the Alerus Center, usable only in conjuction with purchase of an item from the dinner menu. If you are interested, please drop us a line at 1-701-766-7825. Sincerely, Dale Lennon. Head coach, University of..." - what the sam hell! - 'North Dakota!?!' Let me look at the logo again..."

I hate to say, but that was funny!

I have a "ND" hat I like to wear which always seems to get the "Go Irish" fist in the air from the "Our Lady" fans out there. Because it is green and white, I will get a "Go Sioux" from a person who knows the difference. I still say they stole the logo from us. Is there any proof of this?

[teamsioux]

How is it that everyone has been able to get decent schedule over the years, but not UND? I would think that if other schools can get better stronger schedules, so can UND.

[bisonguy]

Notre Dame founded 1842

University of North Dakota founded 1883, 6 years before North Dakota was a state.

For many years, the teams were known as the "Flickertails," perhaps an allusion to the University of Minnesota's nickname, the "Golden Gophers."

The addition of the word "Fighting," modeled after Notre Dame University's "Fighting Irish," occurred later.

Although the Chicago Blackhawk logo, which had been used by the hockey team since the late 1960s, was retained, a new geometric Indian head logo was introduced in 1976 and adopted for most athletic purposes

QUOTE SOURCE

A reference is made in the 1899 constitution of the Athletic Association of the University that "ND" was to be the official athletic insignia of Notre Dame. They also referenced a team cap with "ND" on it, only to be worn by qualifying members of the Vvrsity teams. The current football yearbooks list the first players in 1887 and 1888 as "monogram winners," an honor bestowed after the fact when the awarding of letters was first started.

Notre Dame Source

Looks like UND may have set a precedent for themselves on stealing logos. That, and Notre Dame was using the logo when UND was only 4 years from being a prairie.

[jimdahl]

I guess I don't see how any of those UND quotes have anything to do with when UND starting using the interlocking ND?

The ND article you linked did indicate that 1899 was the first reference to the ND in any Notre Dame documentation.

While it seems very unlikely that UND was using it in its first 16 years of the school's existence, that isn't proof. Further, UND didn't start having any athletics until 1888, so they would have had to have a logo for an athletics program in the first 11 years. Pretty unlikely, IMO, but again, not proof.

Teamsioux -- like Tony said, if you want to get the good teams to come to your house, you've gotta pay. UND has been traditionally reluctant to pay. That said, given UND's athletics funding, there's no excuse for having one of the worst schedules in the NCC (remember that Mesa St. was supposed to be decent when we entered into that contract).

[teamsioux]

Yes, which is too bad, because it sure doesn't seem to bother them when it comes time to renew the FSC membership fees. If other schools can afford it, I KNOW UND can.

Maybe you are right that Mesa was supposed to be better when the contracts were made, but boy did they ever fall fast. 66-7 last year and UND had its most inept offense in years.....yes, due to many injuries, but still. It would of have better if Mesa has shut down its program like it was rumored. Maybe UND would of had a better chance to bring somebody worthwhile onto the schedule.

[bisonguy]

Jim,

On the logo subject, I interpreted it as Notre Dame had it in 1887. I have no clue when UND began using the logo, but a picture of the 1899 UND team has no trace of it on their uniforms on the UND website.

Anyhow, back to the topic. I thought the Central Washington series for UND was alright. One lopsided victory for each team, and a single score victory for one game.

Another problem might be guarantees. If UND isn't ponying up enough dough, the good teams won't show. If the $1,500 payout to Crookston is true, and UND thinks other teams might accept something like that, they won't have any non-conf games at home. I believe NDSU paid $50,000 plus expenses as the default contract for non-conf. games in the 90's. Better teams would receive more.

[jimdahl]

Another problem might be guarantees. If UND isn't ponying up enough dough, the good teams won't show. 

Hmmm... I think we're all agreeing but don't realize it (or don't want to admit it). That's exactly what I meant two posts up when I said:

if you want to get the good teams to come to your house, you've gotta pay. UND has been traditionally reluctant to pay. That said, given UND's athletics funding, there's no excuse for having one of the worst schedules in the NCC

Like teamsioux alluded to, this isn't the 6000 fan per game team we had back in '96. Sioux football is hot right now riding a new stadium and one year removed from a national championship (despite a mediocre finish last year), so the timing is right to step up and sink in some $$$ to improve the product.

[UND92,96]

Another problem might be guarantees. If UND isn't ponying up enough dough, the good teams won't show.    If the $1,500 payout to Crookston is true, and UND thinks other teams might accept something like that, they won't have any non-conf games at home. I believe NDSU paid $50,000 plus expenses as the default contract for non-conf. games in the 90's. Better teams would receive more.

As Jim said, I think we all agree that if UND is going to get good non-conference opponents to come to the Alerus, they will have to pay the going rate, whatever that happens to be these days. I think it's safe to say that the money is there to at least bring in one ranked non-conference opponent per year.

Unfortunately for NDSU, they have not always gotten what they paid for. It's hard to believe Moorhead and Western St., for example, actually warranted $50K, if that's what they got. Those games weren't any better to watch than UND's games against Crookston or Mesa. In recent years, even the supposedly good opponents like TAMUK and Angelo have turned out to be duds. That's the risk, I guess. Just because you pay out the big bucks to bring somebody in doesn't mean you'll get a game any better than what an NSIC opponent would give you.

[bisonguy]

The regional format of DII leads towards a few major ranking overinflations. This will cause schedule slip-ups, especially with a team from a region not well known. Angelo State was ranked #24 or #25 when they came to the Fargodome. Moorhead State was more of a "We're DII and you're DII, and we're less than 10 miles apart" game. I think the last Moorhead/NDSU game was worse than any of the UND non-conf. games. 28-0 before the Bison offense set foot on the field

[GDM]

Man, you guys are too easy on him. NDSU fans would have asked at least asked him that. Then the Forum would demand to see all his emails, snail mails, phone transcripts, credit card receipts, results of polygraph and blood test, a list of witnesses, and a sworn affidavit from all the presidents of all 140 or so DII schools affirming that they did receive the invitations.

We save the rough stuff for the hockey coaches.

[sioux7]

FINALLY, A SIOUX FAN WITH SOME INTELLIGENT MESSAGING!!! You guys before TeamSioux are speaking before thinking. How can you guys talk how bad the Bison schedule is before looking at your own? Lets just do a little comparing in the scheduling:

Bison Game 1: Tusculum 7-4, last year, 5th place in the South Atlantic Conf.

Sioux Game 1: Minnesota-Crookston 1-10, last year, last place in NSIC.

Bison Game 2: at Montana 11-3, quarterfinalist in I-AA playoff, tied for Big Sky Conference crown

Sioux Game 2: at Mesa State, 5-6, third place in RMAC

Bison Game 3: California-Davis, 9-3, independent, quarterfinalist in D2 playoff.

Sioux Game 3: Newberry 1-10, last year, last place in South Atlantic Conf.

Bison Game 4: Concordia-St. Paul, 9-2, third place in NSIC

Sioux Game 4: no game scheduled (as of yet)

Lets compare. NDSU's non-conference opponents total combined records from last year: 36-12 (.750 winning pct). UND's combine opponents total combined records from last year: 7-26 (.269 winning pct). This isn't even going into the fact that Montana and Cal-Davis are a higher class. Even if we would throw that out, I suggest Sioux fans look for facts before posting how bad our scheduling is. You better look in the mirror first.

Your the ones going D-1 and still bringing in weak D-II opponents.

[UND Fan]

I fully realize that part of the fun of these sites is to give each other grief but debating the non-conference FB schedules of the two schools is ridiculous. SU's, as usual, is very good -- ours is again full of cupcakes.

It is appropriate that SU have somewhat of a tougher schedule due to their upcoming move to DI. But, UND needs to work harder (and be agreeable to writing larger checks) to bring in some decent opponents. Not only would it be much more appealing to Sioux fans, it would also be better for the FB team to play quality teams prior to the start of NCC play.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Maybe the 2003-04 hockey NC schedule is the reason that UND isn't shelling out for the football schedule, and why we had such a NC cupcake schedule this season (hockey). They we're saving up to bring in the BCs and Yales .

On a serious note, I would like to have seen UND play a tougher non-conference schedule during my tenure here at UND. I'm sorry, but seeing another Crookston massacre doesn't appeal to me very much. Oh, it's fun until we're up 35-0 at halftime...then it just gets boring and repetitive.