Is Drinking a Problem at UND?

[Cratter]

The brilliant, Tu-Uyen Tran, of the Grand Forks Herald on his webblog, The City Beat, talks about how Hal Gershman thinks

the drinking problem at the university "is worse than you know."

. While that point may be debateable as Tu-Uyen Tran points out.

I think the ultimate is clear as both Tu-Uyen Tran, City Council Member Hal Gershman, and myself agree....There has been unintended consequences when government doesn't let a free market take place:

Decades ago, UND forbade businesses near campus and the end result, Hal thinks, is Grand Forks doesn't have a funky university business district within walking distance. In that kind of place, there are alternative ways to socialize that doesn't necessarily involve drinking.

I think Hal's right. Seattle depressed me when I lived there but, man, our University District really had soul. Grand Forks just doesn't have any business district with that kind of lived-in, Bohemian feeling where you can get cheap eats, buy used books and be served coffee by people with more holes in their faces than a box of Cheerios. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh.

The U of Minnesota has the same thing in "Dinkytown." Highly successful and popular esspecially after hockey and basketball games. Think if UND had the same thing on their campus. Places to socialize within walking distance from the Ralph and Betty for the adults and college students.

Here is the unintended consequnce of that: It would be inheritanly safer. The highest percent of bar patrons in this town, UND Students, now usually drive to the most popular drinking spot in Grand Forks, downtown. There is no doubt that if there was a more reasonable alternative UND students would be more than happy to be safe and walk to and from their frats and dormrooms to SiouxTown (or any other new name it may become

The first step should be for the City Counsel to reverse that because UND has a very unique opportunity on its hands with the development of the Bronson Property. The town and the college need to utilize that space to make unique experience for fans and students. The concept is partly being developed when we are now seeing the that the newest development on Bronson Property has housing above the commecial shops below. The problem is they need to be high (rises) for more students because of the lack of land. Within a decade UND will more than likely face another housing crunch. Also it ideally needs to have less parking or a parking ramp, essentially a replication of downtown.

Interesting reads can be found at Development around the Ralph

As Star2City pointed out: it is also a way to attract more students to UND: (via the New York Times:)

Colleges have traditionally tempted top students with ivy-covered campuses, towering Gothic buildings and up-to-date student centers. But nowadays, there is a sense that a beautiful campus is not enough. An alluring college town is seen as necessary as well.

The University of Connecticut decided on a sweeping project at its main campus in this hamlet in the still-rural town of Mansfield. Working with local officials, it plans to demolish the meager downtown, which looks more like a makeshift set for a Hollywood western than a New England college center, and build a town from scratch.

Construction of the development, called Storrs Center, is scheduled to begin next year. The project will include up to 300 market-rate rental housing units, up to 500 residential units for purchase, about 200,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, 40,000 to 75,000 square feet of office space and 5,000 to 25,000 square feet of civic and community space. A town square will be at its core, mimicking the greens at the center of hundreds of New England villages.

University officials conduct a survey every two years of 9,000 undergraduate applicants who have been admitted; in any given year, about one-third attend and two-thirds decide to go elsewhere. The surveys indicate that the lack of a college town was the primary reason that students chose another university, said M. Dolan Evanovich, the vice provost for enrollment management at the university.

is this partially why NDSUs enrollments have been increasing more rapidly?

and the thread More Development Around Engelstad.

My fear is that UND will drop the bomb and has a University Village with no bars, no unique shops, no unique restaurants: just more banks, tanning boths, Applebees, Quiznos, or simply to much commercialization without enough student housing.

[Cratter]

Looks like the great creator of this site, JimDahl may have beaten Gershman to the punch:

I've always thought a good open air commercial development near UND could really succeed. What UND is really lacking that a lot of other campuses have is a good collection of shops / restaurants / bars near campus (think State St. in Madison). I think students would embrace alternate eating options within walking distance (a mix of small cafes, burrito joint, Starbucks, etc...). Also, Grand Forks would be a lot safer at 1am if there were more watering holes near campus. Throw in some clothing stores, a shoe store, etc... interspersed with the sidewalk cafes / bars and the campus could have a real jewel.

This is one area in which I agree with UND's "patience". Don't throw up a bunch of junk just because the land is open. Plan carefully to put in services that students and the community want near campus, and that will make UND more attractive to potential applicants.

Is the government now taking notice?

[jimdahl]

I assure you that I wasn't thinking of medium-density townhouses when I made that post. Sigh.

Update: Oh, and we're only #3, behind New Hampshire and Nevada:

http://www.time.com/time/2007/america_numbers/alcohol.html

Only 36g/year? That's less than a pint a day. Our average must be dragged down by some teetotalers.

[siouxforeverbaby]

I assure you that I wasn't thinking of medium-density townhouses when I made that post. Sigh.

Update: Oh, and we're only #3, behind New Hampshire and Nevada:

http://www.time.com/time/2007/america_numbers/alcohol.html

Only 36g/year? That's less than a pint a day. Our average must be dragged down by some teetotalers.

only #3, did we fall again? I agree with you that UND needs a fun place near campus for students. It may help.

I disagree with Hal that dropping the drinking age with give more under 21 year olds access to alcohol. While I get his point, I don't think it will increase the number. If you are under 21 right now and you want alcohol you are going to get it. The only thing that will change if the drinking age is lowered, is that it will be legal for them to get and drink it.

[mksioux]

My fear is that UND will drop the bomb and has a University Village with no bars, no unique shops, no unique restaurants: just more banks, tanning boths, Applebees, Quiznos, or simply to much commercialization without enough student housing.

I agree. I think the University is really wasting an opportunity with this land. I'd love to see a University village that is distinctly different from the rest of the town. Make the buildings close to each other and walking accessible, with unique stores/bars/restaurants that speak to the University student and community. Think State Street in Madison (on a smaller scale obviously).

By the way, this has little to nothing to do with the City. The University is making all the decisions with respect to the development of the Bronson property.

[star2city]

Update: Oh, and we're only #3, behind New Hampshire and Nevada:

http://www.time.com/time/2007/america_numbers/alcohol.html

Only 36g/year? That's less than a pint a day. Our average must be dragged down by some teetotalers.

With gamblers making up a huge fraction of Nevada's consumption and Bostonians buying lower tax alcohol in NH, it's probably safe to say ND is actually #1 in citizen consumption.

[Hammersmith]

Is this partially why NDSU's enrollment has been increasing more rapidly?

I would say no. The only businesses right next to campus have been a small pizza place(gone now, I think), a convenience store, and one bar(The Turf). I can't believe a small number of businesses like that could make any appreciable difference. I suppose you could count the 19th Ave development, but I always felt it was too far away to create the type of atmosphere we're talking about. The new development along 12th Ave might change that in a few years, as long as the right types of businesses come in. I agree with everything you guys are saying; both campuses need some sort of commercial center right next door that caters to students.

[Sal Atticum]

For once I agree with what you are saying. I've been saying for a year and a half now (hey, I've only been here a year and a half) that UND needs to decide what their relationship to the city is. If they want to separate themselves, they need to provide opportunities to students on campus. If they want to integrate with Grand Forks, they need to allow businesses near campus. The current situation is dangerous to everyone on the streets and for those who don't have a DD to get them home after the bars. Having a "dry campus" is an idiotic choice.

Just as an aside, the term "dinkytown" has to be one of ths stupidest things I've ever heard. Why do we feel the need to copy Minnesota in everything?

[ndsubison1]

Isn't Grand Forks 2nd in the nation in binge drinking? Theres one of the problems right there...

[Stromer]

Isn't Grand Forks 2nd in the nation in binge drinking? Theres one of the problems right there...

I know. We are slipping....

[Schmitzzz]

I drink. I fall down. No problem.

[The Walrus]

Way too much of this happening lately.......this will be alcohol related....

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=57602