No, not I-AA, but FCS

[Herd]

The reconciliation of DI (eliminating the DI-A,AA labels) is a very positive thing, espcially for the schools that complete in the FCS sub-division. Why would you look at this any other way.

[The Walrus]

Lets be honest....

There are about 20 Schools that have a shot in Division 1 of wining a National Title in Football, Basketball (M orW), and you can even include those regional sports played on the National level like Hockey, Soccer, Lacrosse, Baseball, Softball, Swimming, Golf, Track ect...

You can label them all you want and call them what you will, so it makes you think you can compete, but the truth is the Bigger the institution is in enrollment, surrounding population, and their tradition the more money they raise, make, solicit ect....They will continue to Dominate.

In our great state of North Dakota we may slay a giant once in a great while, but we will never cature the castle for the big three sports.

This is what lowers the "Greatness" of our 7 Division 1 National Hockey Championships (regional sport)

The Division 1 National picture is getting more and more deluted as time goes on with everybody thinking they have a chance at finding the rainbow, especially in Basketball.....

Post Script: For those of you that know me, It would be like me and Mike Tyson fighting for the World Championship, We are both "Heavy Weights"?

[Bison06]

Lets be honest....

There are about 20 Schools that have a shot in Division 1 of wining a National Title in Football, Basketball (M orW), and you can even include those regional sports played on the National level like Hockey, Soccer, Lacrosse, Baseball, Softball, Swimming, Golf, Track ect...

You can label them all you want and call them what you will, so it makes you think you can compete, but the truth is the Bigger the institution is in enrollment, surrounding population, and their tradition the more money they raise, make, solicit ect....They will continue to Dominate.

In our great state of North Dakota we may slay a giant once in a great while, but we will never cature the castle for the big three sports.

This is what lowers the "Greatness" of our 7 Division 1 National Hockey Championships (regional sport)

The Division 1 National picture is getting more and more deluted as time goes on with everybody thinking they have a chance at finding the rainbow, especially in Basketball.....

I don't disagree with any of that. But, does that mean that these big schools should use an unfair advantage to sway kids that are on the fence between Florida St. lets say and Southern Illinois or Northern Iowa? Kids can go wherever they choose to go, but they should have accurate information to make that decision IMO. I don't understand why this is being met with so much resistance from some on this board. Would any of you like your children to be lied to during the recruiting process? I know I won't when I get to that point in my life.

[The Walrus]

I don't disagree with any of that. But, does that mean that these big schools should use an unfair advantage to sway kids that are on the fence between Florida St. lets say and Southern Illinois or Northern Iowa? Kids can go wherever they choose to go, but they should have accurate information to make that decision IMO. I don't understand why this is being met with so much resistance from some on this board. Would any of you like your children to be lied to during the recruiting process? I know I won't when I get to that point in my life.

That is my contention the NCAA is the one lying, or playing make believe that everyone can compete on the same level.

[Herd]

Lets be honest....

There are about 20 Schools that have a shot in Division 1 of wining a National Title in Football, Basketball (M orW), and you can even include those regional sports played on the National level like Hockey, Soccer, Lacrosse, Baseball, Softball, Swimming, Golf, Track ect...

You can label them all you want and call them what you will, so it makes you think you can compete, but the truth is the Bigger the institution is in enrollment, surrounding population, and their tradition the more money they raise, make, solicit ect....They will continue to Dominate.

In our great state of North Dakota we may slay a giant once in a great while, but we will never cature the castle for the big three sports.

This is what lowers the "Greatness" of our 7 Division 1 National Hockey Championships (regional sport)

The Division 1 National picture is getting more and more deluted as time goes on with everybody thinking they have a chance at finding the rainbow, especially in Basketball.....

The labels designate the championship that you are playing for, period, as they should. Two teams playing for the same championship should not be labeled differently, they should have every opportunity to complete on a level playing field scholarship and recruiting wise if they are playing for the same championship. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

If your school (generally speaking) isn't big enough or is afraind that they can't complete, that is an entirely different problem. Maybe those schools shouldn't have gone DI to start with if they are afraid to compete for the same title in the same pond as a larger school with more resources. But if you are competing for the same championship, you should be called the same thing and have the same scholarship opportunity. The ncaa has wisely corrected this by eliminating the DI-A,AA,AAA Divisions, replacing with DI and Sub-divisions for football. Did George Mason whine about not having the resources available to Florida. No, they competed their ass off and put their school on the map in a way that 10 DII championships would not have accomplished.

DI is DI. If a school wants to whine that only 20 schools have a chance to win the title, then they belong in DII. Bring on the competition. You can not afford to think small in DI.

[Bison06]

That is my contention the NCAA is the one lying, or playing make believe that everyone can compete on the same level.

Whether or not these smaller DI schools can compete or not is not the issue at all. It is that they have to right to let recruits know that technically they have just as good of a chance to play for a title as Duke or NC. Now, I know that no recruit in their right mind will ever confuse UND or NDSU with DUKE or FLORIDA in basketball. But, that doesn't mean that we don't all compete on the same level.

Hypothetical situation-If high schools were able to recruit in ND, this would be the same as fargo south telling recruits that devils lake or wahpeton don't play at the same level as them for football. The recruit, who was planning on visiting these schools because he is very intrigued by them, decides not to even check them out or give them another thought because of misinformation given to them. It absolute BS that schools were able to lie to recruits and it is an absolutely wonderful thing that this power was taken out of their hands.

[Herd]

That is my contention the NCAA is the one lying, or playing make believe that everyone can compete on the same level.

The last time I checked, every school has the right to play at any level they want to, from NAIA to DI. The NCAA does not force schools to be in DII or DI, the school chooses and applies for instatement. As far as the NCAA is concerned, NDSU or UND can do whatever they want. If our schools don't understand what being DI is all about, then they don't belong. No the ncaa isn't lying to anyone. Schools see greener pastures and a chance for glory, and make the choice on their own.

[The Walrus]

So you would consider NDSU and UND (2012) to be playing Divsion 1 Football...?

The NCAA did nothing but change subdivision names and confuse a already simplified system....

And in Basketball....

Somebody better get a hold of Myles Brand and tell him we need to quit making those Mid-Majors Schools feel inferior and give them a new subdivison name...

or at least get the National Press to stop...?

[Herd]

So you would consider NDSU and UND (2012) to be playing Divsion 1 Football...?

The NCAA did nothing but change subdivision names and confuse a already simplified system....

If you look at the Florida and Appilachian State trophies from last season, what do you think they would read? I will tell you . . .

App. St: NCAA Divison I Football Championship

Florida: BCS National Footabll Championship (this championship is not sponsored by the NCAA)

Of course NDSU and UND will be playing for the Division I football Championship, along with all schools that sponsor 63 scholarships!! The schools that sponsor 85 scholarships (FBS) will be playing for the BCS Championship. These are the 2 championship level that you can complete for in DI, based on the scholarship level that you compete in. (<=63, or >63)

[Herd]

So you would consider NDSU and UND (2012) to be playing Divsion 1 Football...?

The NCAA did nothing but change subdivision names and confuse a already simplified system....

And in Basketball....

Somebody better get a hold of Myles Brand and tell him we need to quit making those Mid-Majors Schools feel inferior and give them a new subdivison name...

or at lest get the National Press to stop...?

You will not hear the ncaa refer to the smaller conferences as mid-majors, that is a term popular with some, but especially the media looking for Cinderella. Most basketbll people agree that the mid-major term for college basketball or the mid-major term for zero scholly FCS football should be eliminated. It serves no purpose in today's college sports. There was a thread on AGS where most supported the elimination of these terms. They serve no purpose as there are no mid-major championships.

[Herd]

I wouldn't. Division I football, as far as I'm concerned, is the Big 10, Pac 10, SEC, Big 12, Notre Dame, etc...

I would consider UND and NDSU to be playing I-AA football in 2012, and I say that with great pride.

The last time I checked, they don't set the NCAA classification after checking with your opinions on the issue. It is black and white as to what teams are in DI, DII, and DIII. You are simply wrong and misguided in your opinions. There are Junior colleges with 25,000 students and DI schools with 3,000. It doesn't matter what size you are, it is the championships that you are playing for. All DI team play for the same championship except for the football sub-divisions where there are two championships based on scholarship level. This is a simple fact not subject to misguided opinions.

[Herd]

Which is exactly why I refer to them as Division I and I-AA.

Using the DI-AA terminology just shows your ignorance, but I will be glad to refer to your Hockey team as DI-AA if you insist.

[The Sicatoka]

Why the encumbering names?

Why not call them what they are: 85 or 63.

And everyone playing either 85 or 63 plays "13" (MBB) or "18" (hockey) or whatever.

[Herd]

Why the encumbering names?

Why not call them what they are: 85 or 63.

And everyone playing either 85 or 63 plays "13" (MBB) or "18" (hockey) or whatever.

There are no encumbering names, just DI, DII, DIII. Within DI there are two Sub-Divisions with 63/85 that are not part of the DI label, currently referred to as FCS/FBS, again not part of the DI label. Not too encumbering if you ask me. Acutally rather simple DI, DII, DIII. Thank you NCAA.

[Herd]

It isn't ignorant, it's what that division of football has been called for as long as I can remember. Yeah, yeah, they changed the name. I get that, but the new name is stupid and I like the old one better. I could give a rat's ass what you choose to refer to our hockey team as. Each to their own. I don't care what terminology you use, and you shouldn't care what terminology I use.

Hey as long as you refer to your hockey team with the same DI-AA label that you label your small school with, I'm good. If you want to be old school and small minded, its all good. It is not correct, but that's only a small detail.

And yes, refusing to use the proper ncaa terminology is ignorant. Please don't embarrass yourself on AGS.

[Herd]

I-AA is proper NCAA terminology. It may not be the most current and updated version, but it's proper terminology just the same. The NCAA came up with that title, not me. Why would anybody in their right mind find it to be so insulting is beyond me. I guess they have self-esteem issues and must try to pretend they're on the same level as Notre Dame and USC. I feel sorry for people who think that way.

I'm thinking that you should go back to the 1960's college terminology. That was once proper terminology also. But I guess you have adapted to the 1978 version. Good work man!

[The Walrus]

anyone know what the 60's terminology was....? I may like it

[Herd]

I'm sure Dave was probably using the terminology last week, so ask him. I think it was college and university divisions however.

[Herd]

I-AA is proper NCAA terminology. It may not be the most current and updated version, but it's proper terminology just the same. The NCAA came up with that title, not me. Why would anybody in their right mind find it to be so insulting is beyond me. I guess they have self-esteem issues and must try to pretend they're on the same level as Notre Dame and USC. I feel sorry for people who think that way.

My school is on the same level as Notre Dame and USC in every sport that they are competing for the same championship. In football my school completes for the DI Football Championship while USC completes for the BSC championship because of their scholoarship level being 85, but we will play them if they want a game. Bring on the Competition.

[The Walrus]

Herd,

Honest question.....Apparently in 1978 the NCAA voted on subdivisions for football....Do you know why...?

and...

Do you think that the NCAA will ever subdivide MBB or WBB.....?

[Herd]

So when you sell t-shirt and hats with your school's logo on it, you actually earn points toward the national championship? Since when does selling merchandise have anything to do with competing for a national championship. This is the big time, you better throw out the small mindedness or drop back to DII. It sounds like you already have.

[Herd]

Basketball, no way. If you don't like the DI competition, you just go DII. It is much different than football.

In Football, the scholarships require so much cash that the subdivisions are needed just for the economics. And the game is brutal.

[Herd]

You're not even close to the same level as Notre Dame and USC. Those are big-time schools that are well-known and marketed nationwide. Go into a store that sells sports merchandise anywhere in the country and you have a pretty good chance of finding a USC hat or a Notre Dame shirt. Good luck finding NDSU gear anywhere outside of a 100 mile radius of Fargo.

So, what are you going to do when your school actually schedules an FBS school, man-up and cheer your ass off, or jump off a building? Most sioux fans will man-up and get behind their team, I'm not so sure about you. There will probably be bison fans like me cheering louder than you.

[The Walrus]

Just my thoughts...

But I'm guessing back in 1978 , it was a competition factor, weather that be money (scholarship) induced or not, so they decided to level the playing field with sudivisions....

Again just my opinion.... but I can see the same thing happening in MBB and or WBB.... They will possibly try to expand the big tournament at the end of the year, but this will face great resistance from the major BCS conference schools as they do noy want to cut up the money pie anymore....I think in the next 10 years you will see subdivisions in MBB and or WBB...

Just to help prove my point in the football discussion....Why are there BCS conferences if every Div 1 school has a equal oppurtunity for a Div 1 national title..?

Also just a little fact since 1901 when the NCAA was started....95 of the possible 106 National Football Championships (Mythical) have been won by 14 Schools, these include the like of Minnesota, Harvard, and Georgia Tech, that now can not win there conferences...(so the arguement could be made only 10-12 schools have a actual shot)

Oh and hey good luck on getting that Notre Dame game on NDSU's schedule, not in my lifetime.....

[NDSUFREAK10]

So, what are you going to do when your school actually schedules an FBS school, man-up and cheer your ass off, or jump off a building? Most sioux fans will man-up and get behind their team, I'm not so sure about you. There will probably be bison fans like me cheering louder than you.

i am already preparing my voice for the damage it will take in the long run after October 20th