Can the NCAA make UND change its Logo

[Goon]

Here  is something that was on KCNN.COM/GUESTBOOK

The UND name is going national because of SCSU. There is now a study by the NCAA Minority Opportunities and Interests Committee that will go until Aug 2002 do determine if these mascots will change. The St. Cloud Times story said that the Committee will probably be visting Grand Forks within the next few months on this issue. This issue is going national, so it does not matter just what people in Grand Forks and North Dakota think. Espically since most of the national press has been negative on this issue to UND and Mr. Engelstad.

Nickname Change Supporter <undflickertail@hotmail.com>

Grand Forks, ND USA - Monday - October 29,2001- 10:51:57

No offense how can the NCAA make a team chage its logo. I mean if UND has to Change its name, they QU, SDSU, FSU, CMU are going to have to change it names and I can't see it because I think it would end up in the Supreme Court and it goes back to the First Amendment.

I just cant stand these P.C. Nazis...

[leifolson]

I'm not sure if the NCAA can make UND change its name and logo.

[Goon]

Ok, I see what some are saying. Look at Florida State Univesity and all the stuff they do with the Mascott/Logo. I mean they have a guy go out on a horse and throw a spear into the ground at the 50 yard line. I read somewhere while doing some research on the subject that Seminols didn't even ride horses. FSU also has the tomahawkchop and all of that stuff, you don't see stuff of that magnitude up here in Grand Forks. I don't know if we could have done the opening of the REA any more respectful.

I think lawyers would argue first amendment all the way.

Florida State Football is a big business. I doubt they are just going to ok, we will change the name. I don't think it is going to be that easy. Your probably opening up a string of law suits and litigation that would last for years.

[Orville]

You know, it makes me scratch my head.  Can someone explain to me why we would want an offensive name and mascot for our beloved U?  I can't think of any.  And frankly, I haven't heard of any yet either, esp from the 5 or 6 that are 'offended'.  That tells me something about how most SEE and INTERPRET our name and logo.  THe only people degrading the name are those trying to dishonor it by trying to make us forget it.  Do these people honestly think most people outside of the midwest would know what Sioux is, if it wasn't for UND?  Please, protesters, smarten up, and use the opportunity of the name and logo to educate and promote, not protest.

[ScottM]

In answer to the original question, probably not.  The NC$$ probably would not want to roil the waters if it came down to name/moniker issues,  and I doubt it has the power to do so.  As soon they hit UND, FSU, Illinois, Utah, etc., I'd be banging about Notre Dame too.  I can do that because I'm Irish, and "hurt" by the name.  It causes me great pain.  LOL

As we are all aware SCCC has as much credibility on racial sensitivity as David Duke.  So the candy-a$$ed signer has the brains of ... a gopher.    The only thing SCCC can take national is the number of Super America counter employees who are SCCC alums and the per-capita beer-drinking, cross burning demographic.

Really the only thing that could have us change the name/logo is the BofHE.  That's not going to happen, unless the sun rises in the west.   I suspect they would have stepped in even w/o Engelstad's letter floating around.  

If the Redskins, Chiefs, Braves, Indians and Twins can keep their names, so can UND.  This issue may not go away, but it sure as #### isn't on the front burner of anybody who has any real sway over it.

[The Sicatoka]

This issue has been with that NCAA subcommittee for well over a year. They were supposed to act in August of 2001 (after a request by none other that SCSU president Roy Saigo). They didn't. A new chair has taken over the subcommittee. The old chair and SCSU's Dr. Saigo would have gotten along well. I don't know much about the new one.

SCSU may go national; however, SCSU would be taking on FSU and Illinois. I'll repeat myself: One of those would get the resolution wording changed from "Indian related" monikers to "race based" monikers to be 'fair' to all people. Suddenly, Notre Dame would have to take interest.

[jimdahl]

The NCAA did establish precedent for trying to dictate sensitivity when it removed all NCAA tournaments from the state of South Carolina while they're flag contained a symbol that African Americans deemed offensive (a flag of the Confederacy).  Without that precedent, I wouldn't be concerned at all.

As is, Sicatoka is right -- the NCAA could never credibly order just UND to change because SCSU is upset.  Rather, they would have to either dictate or suggest that all NCAA schools not have cultures be mascots.  Again, it's tough to draw the line, though: if Indian names are out, what about Fighting Irish (there are still Irishmen)?  Then you could go down to ANYTHING cultural like Cowboys or Vikings.

If UND were the only Indian-mascot school, I think they could be in trouble from an NCAA resolution.  As is, Florida State and Illinois will fight the battle.  Of course, Florida State has the ace in the hole that they have current approval from the tribes, whereas UND has been unable to get a consensus approval.

[leifolson]

You have to think, though, that FSU's tribal approval in some way strengthens UND's case.

[The Sicatoka]

leif: You asked, "What in the world were they thinking?"

That's easy. SPIN CONTROL!

This came out just three days before SCSU re-released the logos story from March of 2001:

"Two professors, a former faculty member and a student filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday alleging a pattern of anti-Semitism and retaliation at St. Cloud State University."

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/766243.html

It's easier to point fingers and direct attention away from yourself than clean your own house.

[leifolson]

I understand the spin control aspect of it....I guess from the outside, it doesn't look as much like effective spin control as it does plain stupidity.  From where I am, attacking UND doesn't seem like a terribly useful way to draw attention away from themselves.  If anything, I would think that it would draw a little more attention to their problems since somewhere along the lines, someone important is going to point out the hypocricy of the entire situation and SCSU leaders will look like complete fools.

But, I'm from the old school of thought where you take care of your own problems before you get involved in a fight that has the potential to make you look like a complete idiot.

Oh well...I'm just interested in seeing how this all plays out.