Dru trial

[HockeyMom]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong......but isn't just kidnapping and taking someone across state lines punishable by death on it's own in Federal Court?

[HockeyMom]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong......but isn't just kidnapping and taking someone across state lines punishable by death on it's own in Federal Court?

Edit I was wrong, it's not. I get all of my info off of Reno911!

[SiouxPride0303]

Then Don't! Heaven forbid anybody should be held accountable! Criminals break the law and they are held accountable, but when individuals (Dr's, parole board's etc ) turn them loose back into society and the criminal repeats, there is no accountability on anybody's part. A Dr. sits down and psychoanalyzes a criminal or patient and then deems that that person is fit to go back into society and that person repeats /commits a crime, what does the Dr. do?? shrug his/her shoulders and say "oops!"? Nothing will change, when a person commits a crime or repeats, they are the only one that will be accountable. When that individual gets released and if they happen to repeat, we the public will sit back and say.........."Why was he/she even released"? Like we always do.

Because the system is imperfect, just like the people who developed it.

To make clear, I stand in the middle of the rehab and throw them to the brink arguments. I think both viewpoints are valid. I agree with MafiaMan and HockeyMom but there is room for therapy/rehab for *some* offenders (mostly for juveniles I believe...adults are too far gone as far as Im concerned).

The Dr's dont "psychoanalyze" a criminal and determine that person's fate. They do a risk assessment based on several data points to come up with the "best" assessment of future risk or dangerousness. Again, its not perfect and it is impossible for any psychologist or psychiatrist to state with 100% certainty that a person will or will not re-offend. There is no research to support those types of claims. There are no "hallmarks" in a criminal that tells us for CERTAIN they will re-offend. Ultimately, Criminals make CHOICES and nobody can control another persons actions, thoughts, reactions, emotions, behaviors or choices.

There was one such unethical psychiatrist named Dr. James Grigson who would make such claims about criminals without ever evaluating or seeing the criminal in person. He would get on the stand, diagnose the criminal and say that he is 100% certain that the criminal will reoffend. Which would you rather have...someone that does their job as best they can with the education and materials they possess or some "quacK" who just flippantly diagnoses people, states absolutes and sends them to death?

And you're arguing that someone like myself (who wants to do this "psychoanalysis" stuff in the future) should be held accountable for the actions of a sadistic rapist because he reoffends?? Thats like saying bartenders should be accountable for repeat drunk drivers....

I'll have to remember this statement in the future if Im sitting on the stand at a trial and make my recommendations...I'll have to keep in the back of my head that I'll be personally accountable for the actions of a criminal. Somehow, I missed that lecture this year....

**Disclaimer...I am NOT defending Rodriguez**

[BringDeanBack]

Because the system is imperfect, just like the people who developed it.

To make clear, I stand in the middle of the rehab and throw them to the brink arguments. I think both viewpoints are valid. I agree with MafiaMan and HockeyMom but there is room for therapy/rehab for *some* offenders (mostly for juveniles I believe...adults are too far gone as far as Im concerned).

The Dr's dont "psychoanalyze" a criminal and determine that person's fate. They do a risk assessment based on several data points to come up with the "best" assessment of future risk or dangerousness. Again, its not perfect and it is impossible for any psychologist or psychiatrist to state with 100% certainty that a person will or will not re-offend. There is no research to support those types of claims. There are no "hallmarks" in a criminal that tells us for CERTAIN they will re-offend. Ultimately, Criminals make CHOICES and nobody can control another persons actions, thoughts, reactions, emotions, behaviors or choices.

There was one such unethical psychiatrist named Dr. James Grigson who would make such claims about criminals without ever evaluating or seeing the criminal in person. He would get on the stand, diagnose the criminal and say that he is 100% certain that the criminal will reoffend. Which would you rather have...someone that does their job as best they can with the education and materials they possess or some "quacK" who just flippantly diagnoses people, states absolutes and sends them to death?

And you're arguing that someone like myself (who wants to do this "psychoanalysis" stuff in the future) should be held accountable for the actions of a sadistic rapist because he reoffends?? Thats like saying bartenders should be accountable for repeat drunk drivers....

I'll have to remember this statement in the future if Im sitting on the stand at a trial and make my recommendations...I'll have to keep in the back of my head that I'll be personally accountable for the actions of a criminal. Somehow, I missed that lecture this year....

**Disclaimer...I am NOT defending Rodriguez**

With some more accountability, I bet you would be much more careful who you give the okay to. You are not defending Rodriguez, but by being wrong (what seems to be a large percentage of the time) you are giving criminals like Rodriguez the "ability" to commit more crimes. If they are incarcerated or in a hospital, they can't commit more crimes right? And in the issue of fairness, since you are in this field, what is the success rate at rehabbing sex offenders? Not very good from what my few psychologist friends tell me.

[SiouxPride0303]

With some more accountability, I bet you would be much more careful who you give the okay to. You are not defending Rodriguez, but by being wrong (what seems to be a large percentage of the time) you are giving criminals like Rodriguez the "ability" to commit more crimes. If they are incarcerated or in a hospital, they can't commit more crimes right? And in the issue of fairness, since you are in this field, what is the success rate at rehabbing sex offenders? Not very good from what my few psychologist friends tell me.

The bartenders are giving people "the ability" to drunk drive as well and yet bars still thrive and have a business. Its not as if its like Two-Face flipping his coin and people are let out willy-nilly. Exactly how should Drs. and Parole boards be held accountable for our decisions should a criminal re-offend upon release??

Yes, you are right, by keeping criminals in prisons and hospitals, they are less likely to commit crimes in the outside world. But is that justice??? A criminal is given a sentence, they serve it and they are let free with conditions (probation) for a period of time after release. Only sex offenders seem to give the public this kind of passion in "keeping them in longer." We can let a murderer or drug dealer back into the outside world and they can reoffend...and yet we (as a public) are LESS likely to call for civil committment or hospitalization for murderers and drug dealers. Plus we want these people to be locked up forever, and yet we dont want to pay for it. I can certainly understand the passion about this but in my opinion, murderers and drug dealers should ignite a similar type of passion. I'm just playing devils advocate here.

As I stated earlier in this thread, rehabbing sex offenders IS very difficult and the success rate is lower than for other types of offenders. What some folks dont realize is that not ALL sex offenders are of the same mold as Rodriguez. Not all sex offenders are violent. Less violent, less sadistic, less psychopathic sex offenders are easier to treat. But as I stated earlier, all sex offenders are sexually dangerous throughout their lives. They make choices and these choices arent always to sex offend; they may commit other crimes instead. Therapists can give the sex offender all the therapy and tools in the world to help them resist offending but in the end, that offender is going to make a choice. Plus, the pathology of a sex offender is much more complex than that of a different offender.

Myths and Facts About Sex Offenders--Center for Sex Offender Management-A Project of the US Department of Justice

Recidvism of Sex Offenders--Center of Sex Offender Management-A Project of the US Department of Justice

In Hanson and Bussiere

[THETRIOUXPER]

One other thing to consider here. If I remember it correctly, didn't rodrig-ass refuse treatment the last time he was in prison ? It's just something to consider when arguing whether or not an offender should be released back out into society.

[SiouxPride0303]

Yes he did refuse treatment and yes it should be considered when release is debated.

[BringDeanBack]

Refusing treatment should mean no consideration for parole

[HockeyMom]

A sex offender is still a sex offender......

Seriously......they may or may not re-offend- who gives a sh**, let's not give them the opportunity to re-offend. I'm pretty sure that the victim will never forget what happened to them for the rest of their lives. Where are the victim's rights?

You talk about Rodrig-ass' (kudos to THETRIOUXPER) rights and every other sex offenders rights- Where were Dru Sjodin's rights? Where were Dylan Groene's rights? You have to think about the pain and suffering that these people have caused to their victims and their victims' families. Things that will deeply affect them from the time that it happens until they take their last breath.

PS- this has been on my mind lately- ladies if some person attempts to abduct you, fight back. Scream, yell, kick, and make as big of a scene as you can. Chances are that's your best fight.

Do you guys think that when the second call went through to Chris that it was Dru, and that she was unable to talk because her throat had been cut?

[SiouxPride0303]

A sex offender is still a sex offender......

Seriously......they may or may not re-offend- who gives a sh**, let's not give them the opportunity to re-offend. I'm pretty sure that the victim will never forget what happened to them for the rest of their lives. Where are the victim's rights?

You talk about Rodrig-ass' (kudos to THETRIOUXPER) rights and every other sex offenders rights- Where were Dru Sjodin's rights? Where were Dylan Groene's rights? You have to think about the pain and suffering that these people have caused to their victims and their victims' families. Things that will deeply affect them from the time that it happens until they take their last breath.

PS- this has been on my mind lately- ladies if some person attempts to abduct you, fight back. Scream, yell, kick, and make as big of a scene as you can. Chances are that's your best fight.

Do you guys think that when the second call went through to Chris that it was Dru, and that she was unable to talk because her throat had been cut?

Agreed.

[NDFAN]

A sex offender is still a sex offender......

Do you guys think that when the second call went through to Chris that it was Dru, and that she was unable to talk because her throat had been cut?

Yes, I do think it was Dru calling, and in my opinion, that would say to me that she was kidnapped and taken across state lines (Making it a federal offence, and therefore in the right court) and killed in MN.

This trial has peaked my interest as well.

[BringDeanBack]

[BringDeanBack]

Regarding treatment, I will agree that perhaps there is a chance for rehabilitation depending on what the crime/behavior was. For example, the guy or girl that views child porn over the internet. I suppose you could say that since they never physically hurt someone or physically imposed their will on someone, then maybe you can help them. They have not crossed the point of no return. The people that do not deserve even a chance at rehab are the rapists, child molesters, etc. People that have used force to commit these crimes. I'm sorry but once you have put a knife to someone's throat and sexually assualted them, you have crossed that line of no return. You have proven that you have enough evil in you to perform such a heinous crime and rehab is a waste of time. Some people are just born evil and some are raised in a way that makes them evil. The only thing that a psych professional can help in these type cases is their own personal bank account.

[HockeyMom]

When a bar keeps serving a visibly intoxicated person, and then that person goes out and hurts himself or someone else, I am pretty sure that the bar owner can be held liable. So there is accountability in that profession, why not in the psychologist/counselor/sex offender rehab profession?

I agree with you BDB. It would lessen the amount of high risk people getting out. I think I read somewhere that Rodrig-ass was the highest risk sex offender on a list of sex offenders that authorities compiled when Dru was first missing.

I realize that people are let out of jail all the time because we just don't have the resources to confine them.

But cripes, sex and violent crimes should land your ass in the middle of an Arizona desert wearing pink underwear and working on a chain gang........or dead.

[SiouxPride0303]

Getting back to the trial...the defense attorneys are apparently going to argue something about "damaging effects of farm chemicals" as a mitigating factor for sparing him the death penalty. Was in a Herald article Thursday I believe.

Is he for real??? Farm chemicals?!?! Does anybody know if there is any weight to this argument? It appears to be another stretch....

[PCM]

Is he for real??? Farm chemicals?!?! Does anybody know if there is any weight to this argument?

If there were, I'd expect Grand Forks to be awash in murdering rapists. That doesn't seem to be the case, however.

[SiouxPride0303]

If there were, I'd expect Grand Forks to be awash in murdering rapists. That doesn't seem to be the case, however.

Or the entire state of NoDak for that matter..geez louise

[HockeyMom]

Is he for real??? Farm chemicals?!?! Does anybody know if there is any weight to this argument? It appears to be another stretch....

Nice defense.........good thing we're paying Rodrig-ass' attorneys and he isn't. I guess that any one of us can go out and do whatever we want to people and blame it on farm chemicals from now on.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Hey, isn't there alot of meth thats cooked up on old abandoned farms ? Maybe that's what the defense attoney means by farm chemicals, in a round-about kind of way. I know it's not funny, but hey it's just as ridiculous as rodrig-ass' defense teams theories.

[PCM]

Here's an article in today's St. Paul Pioneer Press about the impact Dru's death had on her friends and relatives. Very sad.

[THETRIOUXPER]

My prayers are with Dru's family and friends as they go through another difficult period. Sad how much has been taken from their family, friends and community by a senseless act of violence, proof that Dru had touched many lives. I can only hope that justice prevails.

[SiouxPride0303]

Good article PCM, thanks for the link.

[HockeyMom]

Here's another one from the Forum that explains where the defense may be headed:

link

[HockeyMom]

Here's an article in today's St. Paul Pioneer Press about the impact Dru's death had on her friends and relatives. Very sad.

Thanks, PCM.......

[ScottM]

Nice defense.........good thing we're paying Rodrig-ass' attorneys and he isn't. I guess that any one of us can go out and do whatever we want to people and blame it on farm chemicals from now on.

Don't be so quick to dismiss defense attorneys' abilities/duties to defend to their clients.

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