Suspense is killing me

[The Sicatoka]

The attitude of the Big Sky presidents would likely be something like "NDSU and SDSU have proven their commitment to D1, UND has not. UND can come back in a few years and we'll see if anything has changed."

Or the attitude could be, "UND showed fiscal restraint and patience. We like those characteristics." You speculate. I speculate. Ain't it fun.

In any case, antagonizing NDSU and SDSU did not, and will not, help UND.

How did UND "antagonize" the SUs? By staying DII?

[bincitysioux]

Butts in seats matter, dollars matter, facilities matter. Having a Taj Mahal for a sport that a conference doesn't sponsor isn't the best card in UND's hand, IMO.

The Big Ten doesn't sponsor hockey either, but I am sure that they veiw a facility like the Kohl Center as a tremendous asset. Is the Kohl Center a hockey arena or a basketball arena? I can't remember.

Folks, conferences aren't much different from the NCAA:

It's all about the Benjamins.

You have them (in budgets and facilities) or you don't. The Engelstad Complex is $110 million plus of have. Alerus Center is another $60 million plus of (city-owned, UND used) have.

If UND got into the Big Sky the Ralph instantly becomes the top basketball facility in the conference, the Betty perhaps becomes the best Volleyball facility in the conference, and the Alerus becomes the third or fourth best football facility in the conference.

Another "have" that could work in UND's favor in receiving consideration from the Big Sky is TV market. Several UND football and basketball games are broadcast each year in ND, MN, SD, and Canada. This could be attractive to the Big Sky in that they could be gaining exposure in a new region.

[star2city]

I agree that the bitterness should be on the field between the Bison and Sioux. I hope that all three Dakota schools get into the Big Sky. It will enhance that conference unlike any of the previous four expansion schools, which included Sacramento State, Portland State, Cal State-Northridge (no longer in the 'Sky), and the most recent, Northern Colorado. While some of these schools have had good teams, overall, they have been average or below in most sports.

California schools are notorious in their lack of fan support for college athletic programs, but there is hardly a better recruiting ground. While Northridge was always a poor choice, both Portland St and Sac St really lost a lot of momentum when their programs moved up to DI.

I think getting three major state schools would appease the two Montana schools from wanting to leave the conference to the WAC as these three schools would have more in common with them than any of the current schools both from an athletic point of view and also an accademic point of view.

It is interesting that the Big Sky meeting will be in Missoula, whereas their typical meeting place in is Salt Lake. Wouldn't be surprised if the Montana president politely lays out Montana's alternatives - gives us a Montana-friendly Big Sky or IA WAC here-we-come.

While I cheer for the Bison on the field, I am one Bison fan that wants to see the Bison/Sioux rivalry return and hopefully it is as a Big Sky Conference game to end a season in all sports.

I applaud your reasoning and foresight, Bison_Kent. It seems more than a few Bison fans are double-minded on UND and DI: they want NDSU as the remain the only full DI program in the state, yet they degrade UND's DII status.

[star2city]

If UND got into the Big Sky the Ralph instantly becomes the top basketball facility in the conference, the Betty perhaps becomes the best Volleyball facility in the conference, and the Alerus becomes the third or fourth best football facility in the conference.

Another "have" that could work in UND's favor in receiving consideration from the Big Sky is TV market. Several UND football and basketball games are broadcast each year in ND, MN, SD, and Canada. This could be attractive to the Big Sky in that they could be gaining exposure in a new region.

Having a media-ready Ralph and Alerus is an important consideration for the Big Sky. With many of the Big Sky games broadcast on the Altitude network, they want more venues with minimal setup expenses for television.

Agree that the Fighting Sioux Sports Network is another consideration. If UND goes DI, expect most BB home games to be on the FSSN and more cable systems to offer it. A decent viewable Dataflix wouldn't hurt either.

[Bigears]

Do you seriously think the SU's would object to UND's entry? Having all three schools in the Big Sky or any other conference would be best for everybody. That's not even debatable. If geography is the biggest issue, it seems having a 12 member conference with two division makes more sense the more schools there are here out east. I think animosity is prevent some from thinking clearly. Past dealings could and should have been better handled, but there's been a new AD since then and soon will have a new president. If school administrations can't over it everybody's going to regret it. Only zealots want the two ND schools forever seperated. And unlike us diehard types that post on message boards ( ), I think most would agree adding UND to the mix probably increases the SU's chance.

I also would have a hard time believing having the Ralph would not factor into UND's chances for an invite. It may be a hockey facility, but that it can still be used as a bball facility would be attractive to the Big Sky.

In my opinion, permanent separation from UND is exactly what NDSU wants and needs. NDSU has simply had enough of the attitude it hears too often, and is aggressively seeking to put as much distance between itself and its onetime rival as possible. Conference affiliation with UND is not part of their plans. They will accept it, if they are forced to, but they will do nothing to encourage it. Abandoning SDSU to become your travel partner in the Big Sky is not an opition.

[govikes27]

I'm not so sure about that. Most alumni want to see the Sioux and Bison playing again. Those games can provide a lot of revenue to be made and create interest in casual sports fans of the area. Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think NDSU's position is stronger with UND.

[Bigears]

I'm not so sure about that. Most alumni want to see the Sioux and Bison playing again. Those games can provide a lot of revenue to be made and create interest in casual sports fans of the area. Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think NDSU's position is strong with UND.

I completely disagree. There is nothing strong, good or healthy about the relationship between the two schools. I would say "nasty", "ugly" and "dysfunctional" are more descriptive words. The sports rivalry only serves to make an already bad situation worse. Both schools would be better off going their own separate ways.

[govikes27]

Sorry about that. What I meant to say was their positions are stronger in relation to the BSC as a package deal. How much is debatable, but I do believe it would help. I've talked to SU alumni who also agree with that statement.

Both schools would be better off going their own separate ways.

I highly doubt that. It might be for NDSU to become ND's "flaghip" in athletics. But there is too much history between the schools for UND to become second fiddle. Like it or not, UND and NDSU belong in the same boat. Maybe financial realities will prevent it, but most people would say it "feels right" having the two in the same conference. Wouldn't that be the best way to have the rivalry return?

If fences need to be mended, people on both sides need to suck it up and mend them. But to say the relationship can't be fixed is pretty fatalistic, don't you think?

[bincitysioux]

In my opinion, permanent separation from UND is exactly what NDSU wants and needs. NDSU has simply had enough of the attitude it hears too often, and is aggressively seeking to put as much distance between itself and its onetime rival as possible. Conference affiliation with UND is not part of their plans. They will accept it, if they are forced to, but they will do nothing to encourage it. Abandoning SDSU to become your travel partner in the Big Sky is not an opition.

For your sake, I hope that the NDSU administration does not share your views. As per The Forum, they obviously don't as Gene Taylor and Tom Bunning we're apparently discussing a football game on Oct. 21st of this year. The NDSU administration realizes, and so should you and other NDSU fans & alumni, that by not competing with UND that NDSU is missing out on a virtually guaranteed sellout at the Fargodome every other year (NDSU hasn't had one since the last time they played UND, not even at their DI debut against non-scholarship Valparaiso), the biggest drawing basketball game at the BSA every single year, a football game on statewide TV, cable, and national satellite television every year, and two basketball games on statewide TV, cable, and national satellite television every year. Not to mention the extra newspaper coverage that they'd receive in Bismarck, Minot, and the rest of the western part of ND that is normally alot less than what they receive for all other games. The brass at NDSU wants UND to move up. They'd be stupid not to.

[dlsiouxfan]

First of all we have 9 games already scheduled for 07-08. 07-08 you'll be in limo. You may have saved some travel cost (not close to 10 million) by following NDSU, UNC, and SDSU's lead if and it's a big IF we get into a conference. Fact is you'll have moved up to DI without a conference something everyone on this board said is the leading factor you didn't move up before. It's not written in stone that the BSC will move to 12 teams, they could just as easily take 1 and be a 10 team conference or stay where they are. If you move up now the only reason will be jealousy, nothing has changed from 3 years ago.

Fact is five years from now it won't matter who moved up first and for what reasons. If in five years we're both D-1 and we're kicking your ass like we did in D-2 none of this will matter. Like it or not we're coming, hope you're not scared.

[star2city]

There is nothing strong, good or healthy about the relationship between the two schools. I would say "nasty", "ugly" and "dysfunctional" are more descriptive words. The sports rivalry only serves to make an already bad situation worse.

Bigears:

When NDSU beat Wisconsin in basketball, there were only positives posted on THIS site about NDSU's win.

When UND lost in the NCAAs in football, women's basketball, and hockey, there were bona fide celebrations ongoing within Bisonville.

Which response is "nasty", "ugly" and "dysfunctional"?

Case closed.

[Bigears]

Bigears:

When NDSU beat Wisconsin in basketball, there were only positives posted on THIS site about NDSU's win.

When UND lost in the NCAAs in football, women's basketball, and hockey, there were bona fide celebrations ongoing within Bisonville.

Which response is "nasty", "ugly" and "dysfunctional"?

Case closed.

Clearly the ugliness works both ways. I've never suggested otherwise. I will say that, in my opinion, blame lies mostly with the folks from Grand Forks. You probably disagree. In any case, as I said previously, the athletic rivalry between the schools only serves to make matters worse. There are other schools out there with whom both schools can form positive competitive relationships. It's time to move away from this destructive "rivalry".

[PCM]

It's time to move away from this destructive "rivalry".

I can only hope that NDSU's leadership has more common sense than you.

[Bigears]

I can only hope that NDSU's leadership has more common sense than you.

Common sense? Was it common sense that told UND leadership that moving to Division 1 was a terrible idea 3 years ago, or is it common sense that now seems to be dictating the opposite conclusion? Does your common sense tell you that NDSU will welcome UND into Division 1 and work to help ease its transition when UND did everything possible to make NDSU's transition difficult only a couple years ago? Doesn't your common sense tell you that NDSU might be just a little bit pissed off that UND now wants to reap the benefits of NDSU and SDSU's hard work and vision despite providing neither itself. Common sense seems to be in very short supply in Grand Forks these days.

[PCM]

I rest my case.

[Bigears]

I rest my case.

Sir you don't have a case.

[PCM]

Sir you don't have a case.

[USA Hockey]

Common sense? Was it common sense that told UND leadership that moving to Division 1 was a terrible idea 3 years ago, or is it common sense that now seems to be dictating the opposite conclusion? Does your common sense tell you that NDSU will welcome UND into Division 1 and work to help ease its transition when UND did everything possible to make NDSU's transition difficult only a couple years ago? Doesn't your common sense tell you that NDSU might be just a little bit pissed off that UND now wants to reap the benefits of NDSU and SDSU's hard work and vision despite providing neither itself. Common sense seems to be in very short supply in Grand Forks these days.

That's is athletics bud, competition, competition, and more competition. NDSU shouldn't be pissed off because they should realize UND is out for the benefit of UND, not NDSU.

[TheBisonator]

That's is athletics bud, competition, competition, and more competition. NDSU shouldn't be pissed off because they should realize UND is out for the benefit of UND, not NDSU.

Fine. UND can look out for UND, that's fine. NDSU had no control over that. But don't expect NDSU to roll out the red carpet for UND. I expect NDSU will treat UND's matter exactly the same as UND handled NDSU's matter.

An eye for an eye, I say.

[Bigears]

That's is athletics bud, competition, competition, and more competition. NDSU shouldn't be pissed off because they should realize UND is out for the benefit of UND, not NDSU.

Precisely. This whole discussion started because UND fans simply assumed that NDSU and SDSU would help them secure a bid from the Big Sky conference. Both schools should indeed act in their own separate best interests. That is exactly my point. Thank you for agreeing with me.

[bincitysioux]

Precisely. This whole discussion started because UND fans simply assumed that NDSU and SDSU would help them secure a bid from the Big Sky conference.

Actually, the way things are shaping up it appears that it could very well be possible that UND will in fact secure SDSU & NDSU the bid from the Big Sky that they've been seeking for years. Purely speculation of course.

[Bigears]

Actually, the way things are shaping up it appears that it could very well be possible that UND will in fact secure SDSU & NDSU the bid from the Big Sky that they've been seeking for years. Purely speculation of course.

That's the attitude. It never fails. Sioux fans always show their true colors.

[USA Hockey]

If the Big Sky ever decides to add teams, which right now is likely, they will make their decision based on who they think is the best fit for their conference. They're not just going to accept NDSU and UND because they were rivals and they want them in the same conference. Not saying that both will not get in, but the decision will no be based on the what has happened in the past.

[USA Hockey]

If UND decides to make the move up, just because both UND and NDSU would be in the same divison, doesn't at all mean they have to be in the same conference. Take University of Florida and Florida State, huge rivals, not far from each other, but different conferences.

[Bigears]

If the Big Sky ever decides to add teams, which right now is likely, they will make their decision based on who they think is the best fit for their conference. They're not just going to accept NDSU and UND because they were rivals and they want them in the same conference. Not saying that both will not get in, but the decision will no be based on the what has happened in the past.

I don't think the Big Sky conference will accept any of the Dakota schools for the forseeable future. Big Sky is very snobbish about its status as a scenic mountain conference. Accepting any prairie school would endanger that self image. I don't expect that to happen.