Spirit Lake withdraws support for logo

[HockeyMom]

Also, another thing I heard today is there is apparently something in the will that says they could actually destroy the Ralph if the name is changed. I doubt this one and believe it to be a urban myth but, you never know.  Does anyone know about this?

I've heard that too. I'm not worried about it, because the name isn't going to change.

[Goon]

[GrahamKracker]

[PCM]

PCM, I have no doubt UND does more to reach out to American Indians than any other school in the region.

[HockeyMom]

If this was the case, the South still would have slaves.

Yeah, I'm so sure.

[PCM]

If this was the case, the South still would have slaves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The two issues aren't even remotely similar.

[Diggler]

If this was the case, the South still would have slaves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's quite the leap in logic. You are comparing rulings of the NCAA, a private organization, to that of the US Government, about as public of an institution as their possibly can be.

[GrahamKracker]

That's quite the leap in logic. You are comparing rulings of the NCAA, a private organization, to that of the US Government, about as public of an institution as their possibly can be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I'm comparing is the amount of control that is enforced for the betterment of mankind. Why is no one paying attention to the fact that the SIOUX Nation does not want you to use it? EVERYONE ignores this.

HockeyMom, this would be like me telling you that I'm going to honor you by marrying you. Maybe you don't want that, but in my eyes it would be "honor", so why would it be wrong? (Hypothetical, of course)

[HockeyMom]

What I'm comparing is the amount of control that is enforced for the betterment of mankind.  Why is no one paying attention to the fact that the SIOUX Nation does not want you to use it?  EVERYONE ignores this.

  HockeyMom, this would be like me telling you that I'm going to honor you by marrying you.  Maybe you don't want that, but in my eyes it would be "honor", so why would it be wrong?  (Hypothetical, of course)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In North Dakota, one Sioux Nation has spoken, another has not. The only thing that I've heard is you saying that you represent ALL of them.

Are you an enrolled member of the Spirit Lake Nation? If not, sit back and let them speak for themselves. We're all going to listen.

Quit comparing apples to oranges. Your are so far out in left field that your comparisons make little or no sense.

[PCM]

What I'm comparing is the amount of control that is enforced for the betterment of mankind.  Why is no one paying attention to the fact that the SIOUX Nation does not want you to use it?  EVERYONE ignores this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll restate what I just posted in another thread because it applies here as well.

I want to further clarify my point for using the picture above.

We are told by the NCAA that UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo is "hostile and abusive" to American Indians. The NCAA has justified its policy on this issue as being similar to the policy it adopted on the confederate flag issue. But this picture proves that the two issues are not at all similar.

You can visit the Prairie Knights Casino on the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation and see these "hostile and abusive" words and images in widespread use. If the words and images are truly offensive, hostile or abusive to residents of the reservation, the tribal government wouldn't be subjecting its people to such treatment.

Does the NAACP fly the confederate flag from its headquarters at the same time it demands that everyone else -- except African Americans -- must avoid displaying the flag or face punishment? Of course not. That's because blacks see the confederate flag as a symbol of an oppressive government that sought to keep them enslaved. They see the confederate flag as a symbol used by the KKK to threaten, intimidate and kill them.

This is clearly not the case with American Indian names, mascots and logos. Polls show that a large majority of Native Americans have no problem with sports teams using these words and images. More recently, thanks to the NCAA, we've learned that there are tribes across America actively supporting the universities that use their names and images.

If the entire Sioux Nation banned the words and images it claims are offensive, then perhaps GrahamKracker, his supporters and the NCAA would have a valid argument. As it stands now, they don't.

[GrahamKracker]

[GrahamKracker]

[HockeyMom]

......I can only assume that you know very little history on this issue because if you did, you would know that the SIOUX Nation is bigger than those two Tribes.

[HockeyMom]

If SIOUX tribes want to use the word SIOUX, don't you think they have a right to?

[USA]

I was told by someone I work with this morning that they knew one of the persons that was on the construction companies  (one of the Foremen) that built the Ralph. Apparently there was dynamite on site to blow up the new REA if they changed the Fighting Sioux name.

Also, another thing I heard today is there is apparently something in the will that says they could actually destroy the Ralph if the name is changed. I doubt this one and believe it to be a urban myth but, you never know.  Does anyone know about this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting.....I was told from a somewhat reliable source this past week that Ralph did indeed put this in his will. He also supposedly set aside between 35-38 million to pay fro the demolition if indeed they ever do change the name. Of course this could be a rumor, but I would hate to find out if it was true.

[Goon]

Interesting.....I was told from a somewhat reliable source this past week that Ralph did indeed put this in his will.  He also supposedly set aside between 35-38 million to pay fro the demolition if indeed they ever do change the name.  Of course this could be a rumor, but I would hate to find out if it was true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lets hope that this isn't true.

[Smoggy]

I'm surprised that Graham claims the ENTIRE SIOUX NATION wants this. All that has happened is the tribal councils have drafted a resolution. Some of these tribal councils have proven to be quite corrupt. Were they bought off by the nickname opponents? Was this ever put to a vote in the Sioux nation? My only problem with a large scale vote is that those that don't want the name would vote and those that don't care wouldn't bother to vote.

I also get this feeling from Graham's writings and threats on this board that many of the Sioux nation and their tribal councils are being bullied into going against the name.

[GrahamKracker]

I'm surprised that Graham claims the ENTIRE SIOUX NATION wants this.  All that has happened is the tribal councils have drafted a resolution.  Some of these tribal councils have proven to be quite corrupt.  Were they bought off by the nickname opponents?  Was this ever put to a vote in the Sioux nation?  My only problem with a large scale vote is that those that don't want the name would vote and those that don't care wouldn't bother to vote. 

I also get this feeling from Graham's writings and threats on this board that many of the Sioux nation and their tribal councils are being bullied into going against the name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lolol.....who's doing the bullying?? We are just standing up for ourselves. Why don't you call up the chairpersons/presidents yourself and ask them. Unless your like most of the other people I met on campus that have the "I honor the Sioux but I won't talk to them" mentality. www.ncai.org <--------this website has the names/numbers of ALL of the tribes, including the Sioux Tribes. I'm sure they'd love a call from you.

[Diggler]

lolol.....who's doing the bullying??  We are just standing up for ourselves.  Why don't you call up the chairpersons/presidents yourself and ask them.  Unless your like most of the other people I met on campus that have the "I honor the Sioux but I won't talk to them" mentality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you be bullied if you aren't even being talked to?

[GrahamKracker]

[mikejm]

You know Kracker, for someone who decries racism, you sure play pretty fast and loose with epithets.

[HockeyMom]

You know Kracker, for someone who decries racism, you sure play pretty fast and loose with epithets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's because it's okay for him to be racist.

The Man is evil.

[mksioux]

The "white man" has always commented and acted in what they felt was in the best interest of the "red man".  I'm not just referring to this nickname/logo, but history as well.

Like your professors at UND?

[PCM]

If SIOUX tribes want to use the word SIOUX, don't you think they have a right to?

Yes. But it is not exclusively their right.

We are Sioux, not YOU.  And the Sioux Nation has asked you not to use their name.  What part of that don't you understand?  How else do you want me to spell it out?

Did you know that that the word "casino" is Italian? If a group of Italian Americans asked the tribes to stop using the word "casino," would they do it? Shouldn't they have to? Shouldn't Italians have the exculsive right to use a word that originated with their culture? Shouldn't they be able to demand that non-Italians stop using their word?

You are not SIOUX.....can't you see that?  Jeez,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course I'm not Sioux. And Duante Culpepper isn't a Viking. And Randy Moss isn't a white pirate with a patch over his eye. And most of the athletes who play for Notre Dame aren't Irish.

[HockeyMom]

Great perspective, PCM.