PCM Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Heads up SiouxSports.com posters, this article don't mean jack!! I, for one, believe this is a very 'winable' case. I agree. This is the second Sunday in a row that the Herald has run what I consider a very unbalanced story about the Sioux name issue because it only tells one side. One of the law professors is from Marquette, a university that changed its name from Warriors. How objective is he on this issue? Every court case is different, and I think it's a mistake to assume that this one will be like others in which the NCAA has been involved. Maybe it will and maybe it won't. I don't know. But I doubt that UND would be discussing legal action with the state if it was a complete waste of time. BUT I do wish we could get the Spirit Lake tribe back on board. At the very least, being able to open communication with them again would be a step forward. Knowing why they have closed that door would be helpful. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with that, too. But there has to be a willingness to cooperate and compromise on both sides. I have no doubt that UND is willing. Is the other side? I have my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I agree it was not a balanced story, but it's conclusion is accurate IMO. UND will have a very difficult time prevailing in court. It won't be impossible, but it will be an uphill battle. One thing I'm sure of is that the NCAA will not have to "prove" that UND is being hostile and abusive toward Indians to win in court and keep the policy. If UND wins in court it will be for some other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 I agree it was not a balanced story, but it's conclusion is accurate IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) Another letter from Sharon Carson: http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...al/12856083.htm The Sept. 30 "Backtalk" page was peppered with anonymous and angry comments regarding the NCAA's ruling on teams using American Indian names/logos/mascots. The page was titled "Sad Day." Indeed, it was. How many times does Sharon Carson, or Leigh Jeanotte, or Lucy Ganje get to state their opinion in the Herald? But when a pro-Sioux nickname voice gets printed in the Herald, the voices chosen seem to be purposedly shrill and ignorant. Has there ever been a UND faculty member or booster who has been allowed to give a poignant defense of the Sioux name in the Herald? I nominate iramurphy and Yttrium. Edited October 9, 2005 by star2city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 How many times does Sharon Carson, or Leigh Jeanotte, or Lucy Ganje get to state their opinion in the Herald? But when a pro-Sioux nickname voice gets printed in the Herald, the voices chosen seem to be purposedly shrill and ignorant. Has there ever been a UND faculty member or booster who has been allowed to give a poignant defense of the Sioux name in the Heald? I nominate iramurphy and Yttrium. That is EXACTLY my reason for cancelling my subscription to the Herald after they refused to drop the issue in 2000-2001. It will be a cold day in hell when I start getting the paper delivered again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 From Sharon Carson's letter: The gist of the racial argument in many of those comments seemed to be: "WE (white people) are honoring them THEM (Indian people), and if they don't like it, they should shut up." A translation of Sharon Carson’s intentionally racially charged letter seems to be: “Any honor that YOU (the unwashed masses of UND ‘violence-loving‘ sports fans) intend to impart on THEM (Sioux people), is invalid and offensive because you are not enlightened, like WE (the elite and impartial arbitraters of justice) are. How dare YOU (the unwashed masses) to consider yourselves worthy, after your violent history, to impart any honor on THEM (Sioux people). Only WE (the elite and impartial arbitraters of justice) truly understand that those of THEM (Sioux people), who accept your honor, only do do so because of the hostility and abusiveness that YOU (the unwashed) and your culture have suppressed them with.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) Part of the problem is The Ralph, as UND's hockey arena has been dubbed. Some see it a citadel of extreme comfort and class. It has Italian chandeliers, granite floor tiles from India, a vintage Belgian organ, German escalators, a 24-man jacuzzi, a $2 million scoreboard and all 11,400 seats are done in leather with arm rests of Valley Forge cherry wood. Others see the arena as a bastion of bad taste. At the insistence of the late Engelstad Edited October 9, 2005 by Goon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 He's Indian (not enrolled, though), right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, that means he's NOT Native American. Go sell crazy somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 There you go!! Why not make Yttrium your mascot? He's Indian (not enrolled, though), right? If a person is not enrolled does that make him less Indian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I'm a Democrat. Anyone care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I'm a Democrat. Anyone care? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is nothing wrong with being a democrat, republican, independent, its the leftist eliet's like the one I noted earlier in this thread that I am upset with. There is a difference that has been noted many times on this page and others. For instance I wouldn't put Polmeroy or Dorgan in this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 There is nothing wrong with being a democrat, republican, independent, its the leftist eliet's like the one I noted earlier in this thread that I am upset with. There is a difference that has been noted many times on this page and others. For instance I wouldn't put Polmeroy or Dorgan in this category. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm just being really sarcastic today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) Edited October 10, 2005 by Goon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think we are all aware that is just one of our sudo-reporter's sudo-nyms... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you're implying that I wrote that letter, I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2sioux2 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Keeping in mind that I am no lawyer, there are two parts of Sunday's Grand Forks Herald this story that stand out to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Ms. Carson's letter seems to go to great lengths to tell us who to and who not to listen to: In the NOT to category: - UND's administration - ND State Board of Higher Education In the TO category: - the NCAA - democratically elected tribal governments - the NCACS (accreditation body) - various Indian Education Associations The catch is this: Who is put in place by the people of the State of North Dakota to run the University of North Dakota? (Hint: The elected governor names ND SBoHE members who select the president.) I don't recall voting for Miles Brand, any tribal chair, or the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Ms. Carson's letter seems to go to great lengths to tell us who to and who not to listen to: In the NOT to category: - UND's administration - ND State Board of Higher Education In the TO category: - the NCAA - democratically elected tribal governments - the NCACS (accreditation body) - various Indian Education Associations The catch is this: What it sounded like to me was a propaganda article basically telling UND to give it up and change the name, that the fight can't be won. Hum, they basically are pretty underhanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 http://www.thedakotastudent.com/vnews/disp...0/434afbf0a2ccd Step two in the appeal process UND officials prepare to send a second appeal; it will be similar to the first"The next group we'll go to is the Executive Committee," he said. "What's interesting about that is this is the group that originally said that our nickname was hostile and abusive. It's sort of a curious quirk of procedure to go back to the same group in an appeal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 "The next group we'll go to is the Executive Committee," he said. "What's interesting about that is this is the group that originally said that our nickname was hostile and abusive. It's sort of a curious quirk of procedure to go back to the same group in an appeal." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't that like appealing a speeding ticket to the officer who issued you the ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isn't that like appealing a speeding ticket to the officer who issued you the ticket? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah and Kupchella knows it too. I think he stated that he doesn't expect anything to come of this appeal, but rather the next appeal down the line will have newer data and, I guess, be a whole new appeal. So, yeah, this second appeal is just going through the motions to get to the third appeal. No one expects the exec committee to reverse their own ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 UND turns to state for advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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