REA search unconstitutional

[YaneA]

ND Supreme Court held search of REA hockey game patrons unconstitutional in State v. Seglen, 2005 ND 124, released today. Go to

www.court.state.nd.us.court/opinions/20040094.htm

[Diggler]

I'm sure they'll find some way around this so they can search students. Most likely, requiring students to sign contracts that they consent to searches in order to purchase tickets. There are more important things to be concerning themselves with, but so goes many things as they relate to students and REA.

If I am wrong about finding a way around this ruling, let the smuggling of flasks commence!

Here's the correct link.

[YaneA]

sorry about the typo--I'm a slash short in the link address and a "T" short in the title. What happened to the "edit button"?

[HockeyMom]

sorry about the typo--I'm a slash short in the link address and a "T" short in the title.  What happened to the "edit button"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with that ruling based on the fact that the officer didn't believe that it was a weapon, but the dude shouldn't have tried to bring beer in.

I do wonder what they will come up with to get around this ruling.

[BigGreyAnt41]

Every event at any arena will have people patting you down to make sure you're not bringing anything in.

Are every one of those illegal? I'd much rather have myself patted down and know that I'm safer than keep my own privacy and fear somebody else is sneaking something dangerous into the arena.

[Diggler]

But if you aren't a student, you aren't patted down. At least at the student doors. Non-students are allowed to walk past security while students are patted down. I don't disagree with the whole idea of the patting down people, but when it is only students who are patted down, it's pretty stupid if you ask me.

I would venture to guess that the same percentage of general public sneak things into games as students do, yet you don't see them getting patted down. The fact that many students are trying to smuggle in alcohol while most of the general public is trying to smuggle in candy and pop, shouldn't matter, as both are against the rules of the arena.

But the real reason for this whole search is to find underaged drinkers, isn't it? So should students 21 and older be exempt from this? Or is it bad to sneak anything in, whether it be illegal for that person to posses or not? Then that goes back to the whole idea of why not search everyone?

Also during breaks from school, there is no security to check students. Why is this? It isn't a concern then? Why not? Students still sneak things in, whether school is on break or not.

Oh yeah, I never sneak crap into the game because well I'm danger enough to myself being kicked out of the game with all the stupid things I say during the game, I don't need to add to my troubles.

[MafiaMan]

But if you aren't a student, you aren't patted down.

[Diggler]

I was only speaking of the student entrance. I never go to the other entrances, so I don't know. I didn't mean to make it sound like a conspiracy. If students weren't idiots, they wouldn't be searched. However, the inconsistant application of the searching is silly to me and I guess I should have mad it clearer that was my larger problem with the whole idea. At the WJC, they searched everyone coming into the arena. They don't do this for the Sioux games though. Sometimes they search sometimes they don't. Sometimes I'm searched, sometimes I'm not. I know for a fact that I could sneak something in if I wanted to. I talk to and know the security guards and they trust me because I've never snuck anything in. But as I said, I'm not gonna do that.

[HockeyMom]

Are every one of those illegal?  I'd much rather have myself patted down and know that I'm safer than keep my own privacy and fear somebody else is sneaking something dangerous into the arena.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that they ruled that those kind of pat-downs are unconstitutional, but seizure of the beer cans and charging the kid with MIP was, according to Terry. The officer should have only been able to seize a weapon on the pat-down. I may be wrong.

I don't mind opening my bag or being patted down, but then again I don't have anything to hide and I think it's more on the side of safety than anything.

[MafiaMan]

[HockeyMom]

Honestly, what's next?  You search a guy's car looking for a weapon and stumble upon a bunch of kiddie porn and "oops, sorry guys, not a legal search"?

That depends what you're searching for, whether it's a search incident to arrest, whether or not you feel that the car can be moved, where the stuff is in the car, if you have a warrant or not.

I would assume that finding kiddie porn in someone's car on a weapons search would be enough probable cause to get a search warrant to search someone's house.

[PCM]

I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express. However, before anyone concludes that REA security can no longer search people entering the arena, they need to look at these two sections from Chief Justice Vande Walle's majority opinion.

More significantly, however, I believe the conspicuously posted signs may serve to warn persons such as Seglen that they may be required to consent to the search or be denied admission to the facility. Although persons seeking entrance may complain that such a Hobson's choice is no choice at all and is not the voluntary consent required under the exception-to-the-warrant requirement, I believe the facility, particularly a private facility, may impose such a requirement for legitimate purposes.

The signs do not give the officers the right to search. They could only serve as a warning that a person may be asked to submit to a search. If facilities are going to use this method to enforce their rules I suggest the sign should include a statement that would-be entrants dressed in bulky clothing may be asked for their permission to search or may leave without entering.

As I read it, Vande Walle is saying that people entering the arena have two options: Consent to search or leave. Security doesn't have to let anyone in who refuses to be searched.

Vande Walle also offers advice on how the REA could avoid the legal problems in the future by simply adding a few more words to its signs. I rather doubt that this decision is going to have any real impact on anyone's ability to sneak forbidden articles into the REA.

[HockeyMom]

I can't edit my last post, but if anything is in plain view it's fair game to seize.

[Diggler]

I can't edit my last post, but if anything is in plain view it's fair game to seize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one is seizing my pants! That's a violation of my inaliable rights!

[Sioux-cia]

Every event at any arena will have people patting you down to make sure you're not bringing anything in.

Are every one of those illegal?  I'd much rather have myself patted down and know that I'm safer than keep my own privacy and fear somebody else is sneaking something dangerous into the arena.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sports events and other events where large numbers of people gather can be scary places to be in this day and age. Sports players, their parents and fans are killing each other. Terroists are killing everybody. While we want to protect our civil rights, we also have to be realistic about the real danger that can be out there, even at the REA. I don't have any problem with searches of the public that are done to protect the public.

"Profiling" is wrong, anyone that is suspected of smuggling in 'illegal' goods should be searched.

Sorry for grandstanding but the London bombings scared the heck out of me. And no, my season tickets are not up for grabs.

[CoteauRinkRat]

I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express. However, before anyone concludes that REA security can no longer search people entering the arena, they need to look at these two sections from Chief Justice Vande Walle's majority opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no problem with them searching, but camping out at the student doors makes me laugh. I have never been searched or even patted down once since the arena opened and I've been to almost every game.

[Schmitzzz]

No one is seizing my pants! That's a violation of my inaliable rights!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seeing you without pants would be a violation of ALL of our rights.

[mksioux]

I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express. However, before anyone concludes that REA security can no longer search people entering the arena, they need to look at these two sections from Chief Justice Vande Walle's majority opinion.

Vande Walle's opinion was a concurring opinion, not the majority opinion. Concurring opinion generally means that he reached the same conclusion as the majority, but for different or additional reasons.

But I agree that this decision will not stop the searches, but will merely change the way searches are done. Signs will be clarified. Maybe officers will specifically ask each person if they consent to be searched. If the person says 'no', they will not be allowed admission.

I wonder if this Seglen kid is a poster on this board? It would be interesting to ask him why the heck he brought in beer cans, rather than a flask or "one-sies". It's easier to hide hard liquor AND easier to drink at the game (pour into a soda).

And for the record, this searching practice had nothing to do with the governors being in attendance, the new REA, or terrorism. The UND cops searched me on several occasions pre-(new)REA, pre-9/11, and for non-Gopher series. (and no, they never caught me). It's pretty much designed to keep students from bringing alcohol into the arena. Which, like I said, will continue...just using a different method.

[PCM]

Vande Walle's opinion was a concurring opinion, not the majority opinion.  Concurring opinion generally means that he reached the same conclusion as the majority, but for different or additional reasons. 

See. That's why I'm not a lawyer.

The UND cops searched me on several occasions pre-(new)REA, pre-9/11, and for non-Gopher series.

I have never been patted down, but on several occasions (for Sioux games and WJC games), I've had cops ask to look in the briefcase I carry when I'm working a game. Media credentials don't get me off the hook.

At any rate, I don't mind when they ask to look. In fact, I get more concerned when they don't ask.

[Diggler]

I have no problem with them searching, but camping out at the student doors makes me laugh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They just need to get rid of the GropoCop. Students know who I'm talking about. Seriously, nearly every student who has ever attended a hockey game could charge this lady with sexual harrasment. She either hates students, loves groping students or both.

Mafiaman or anyone else, have you ever been patted down by security at REA for a Sioux game? Everyone gets their bag searched it seems, but I haven't seen people other then students be patted down. I don't think it's a huge conspiracy. Just wondering.

[ecbrevik]

They just need to get rid of the GropoCop. Students know who I'm talking about. Seriously, nearly every student who has ever attended a hockey game could charge this lady with sexual harrasment. She either hates students, loves groping students or both.

Mafiaman or anyone else, have you ever been patted down by security at REA for a Sioux game? Everyone gets their bag searched it seems, but I haven't seen people other then students be patted down. I don't think it's a huge conspiracy. Just wondering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never was patted down by security, but then again, I was a student in the late 80s

[MafiaMan]

I've never been patted down at REA, but seem to get the royal treatment at the Xcel every year. They love Sioux fans.

[Sioux-cia]

Mafiaman or anyone else, have you ever been patted down by security at REA for a Sioux game? Everyone gets their bag searched it seems, but I haven't seen people other then students be patted down.

[BisSioux]

But if you aren't a student, you aren't patted down.  At least at the student doors.  Non-students are allowed to walk past security while students are patted down. I don't disagree with the whole idea of the patting down people, but when it is only students who are patted down, it's pretty stupid if you ask me. 

I would venture to guess that the same percentage of general public sneak things into games as students do, yet you don't see them getting patted down.  The fact that many students are trying to smuggle in alcohol while most of the general public is trying to smuggle in candy and pop, shouldn't matter, as both are against the rules of the arena.

But the real reason for this whole search is to find underaged drinkers, isn't it?  So should students 21 and older be exempt from this? Or is it bad to sneak anything in, whether it be illegal for that person to posses or not?  Then that goes back to the whole idea of why not search everyone?

Also during breaks from school, there is no security to check students.  Why is this?  It isn't a concern then? Why not?  Students still sneak things in, whether school is on break or not.

Oh yeah, I never sneak crap into the game because well I'm danger enough to myself being kicked out of the game with all the stupid things I say during the game, I don't need to add to my troubles. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not a student but often enter through the student doors -- and I have been searched even though I am well beyond the age of the average student. At a game against Minnesota a couple years ago, I wasn't searched, but my 11 year old son was. So much for using children as dead gopher smugglers!

[NDFlyer]

They just need to get rid of the GropoCop. Students know who I'm talking about. Seriously, nearly every student who has ever attended a hockey game could charge this lady with sexual harrasment. She either hates students, loves groping students or both.

Mafiaman or anyone else, have you ever been patted down by security at REA for a Sioux game? Everyone gets their bag searched it seems, but I haven't seen people other then students be patted down. I don't think it's a huge conspiracy. Just wondering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Re: GropoCop.

I do believe I know exactly to whom you refer. This chick is notorious for being overtly sexual during the course of her duties. In fact, I know 4 guys who were team hosts at the WJT tournament who told me that she would routinely place herself in a position to be able to check out the players while they were walking around in the lockerooms w/o their breezers.

Seriously, she is a walking sexual harassment suit waiting to happen.