Coaching Changes?

[JBB]

Its being reported elswhere that Terry Wanless is about to fire Sac State's

football coach. He isn't about to settle for mediocrity. Is it true that Dale Lennon is his first choice?

It would be a good move: They know one another, its a chance for Dale to move up to the Big Sky and D1AA football, he would get a raise in prestige and money, he could build a program instead of taking one over, if successfull he could use it as a stepping stone to a larger D1 school, the situtation at uendd is deteriorating.

[choyt3]

Wishful thinking considering Lennon has had the edge on (Jimmy) Bob Babich recently?

[dbarker]

If anybody should know about a deteriorating football program, it would be jbb and his fellow bison fans.

[JBB]

First to worst.

On a much more serious note, WCCO just announced the death of Ralph Englestad.

[donalexander]

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story...p-6371688c.html

About half way in. talks about Sacramento State candidates.

[choyt3]

OK, so Wanless has said that Lennon is a strong candidate. Now the question is does Lennon feel he's a strong candidate. Would anyone involved in Sioux athletics during his tenure ever want to work for Wanless again? It isn't necessarily about money, as the outgoing coach was paid $92,000 a year. That is less than Bob Babich makes to run NDSU's program into the toilet.

Here's a key sentence from the Sacramento Bee story: "Volek was out of town and unavailable for comment." Sounds like a typical Wanless move. Fire the guy when he is out of town.

The caption of Wanless' picture reads, "In the first major move of his administration, Sacramento State athletic director Terry Wanless on Tuesday announces the firing of football coach John Volek." The little guy sure likes to make his presence felt early, doesn't he?

[dbarker]

I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Lennon some day did want to pursue a job at a dI school. However, I don't see it happening here. Sac. St. is not a good athletic program, and I doubt a small town guy from North Dakota who has never coached outside of the Dakota's is going to move his family all the way to Cali to take over a program where he would need to practically start from scratch. I don't see going from the one of the best dII programs to a bad I-AA program as being a step up.

And with regard to Wanless, who do you think Lennon is closer to, Roger Thomas or Wanless? It isn't even close. My guess is after a meeting or two with Wanless, Lennon will get a raise and stay at UND.

Maybe this is apples and oranges, but I think that if UND can keep Dean Blais from going to Minnesota, his alma mater, when they really wanted him, I'm not really worried about being able to keep Lennon at his alma mater and away from a low-end dI school like Sac St.

[SDSUFAN]

Its not possible to read Coach Lennon's mind. I suspect he will be considered for the job. Sacremento State is in trouble with the Big Sky from what I heard and who is to say Lennon did not have a good working relationship with Wanless.

If there was bad blood, Wanless would have never mentioned his name to the Sac Bee. The single mention should suggest that Lennon has some interest. I dont doubt that there is a good working relationship with Roger Thomas. Lennon also had a good working relationship with John Stiegelmiere when he was a grad assistant at Northern in Aberdeen SD and they remain friends. It would have been nice to have Lennon as an SDSU asssistant when Stieg was hired in 1996, but that never happened based on good relationships.

Mr. Lennon is probably looking for the best opportunity for himself and his family. After all he left Thomas to be head coach at Dickenson or Minot , or was it College of Mary, not sure of which school it was, before he came back as head coach at UND. Do you remember that?

To Coach Lennon's credit, he does build good working relationships along the way as well as forming friendships. This has to be a big plus for a resume, and it may take more than a raise to keep him at UND. When you consider Volek's relationship with the players, I think Dale will do very good with the selection committee at Sac State.

As far as the Wanless firing when the former coach was out of town, the former coach probably knew he was going to get his walking papers and made a point of leaving town so save himself and family embarassment. I dont think Wanless was that thoughtless about a job that obviously needed to be done. A team like Sacremento should not lose to D2 UC Davis, but has now two years in a row.

I think if SAC State offers the right price, Lennon may be packing his u-haul on an icey morning for a more balmy temp in Sacremento.

The recruiting at Sacremento area will be much easier than in the upper midwest, so a crabby condition of Sac State should not be intrepretated as not reversable. It can be reversed with the right kind of head coach and staff.

Your coach Schweigert may find himself head coach and doing some interviewing himself since some of the staff would follow Dale out the door. Not scaring people but this scenerio has possiblities.

[dbarker]

Just so there's no confusion, Wanless did not hire Lennon at UND. Roger Thomas hired Lennon as an assistant coach, and subsequently hired him as the head coach in 1999.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As I stated above, I honestly don't think there's much of a chance Lennon would jump at the first opportunity to leave his alma mater, particularly after a poor season. If so, then I guess it would lend credence to the belief of some that a division I job--even one towards to the bottom of the dI food chain--is better than a comparable paying job at a good division II school.

I did read the latest column in the Sacramento Bee about this saga. In case anyone's interested, apparently Pat Behrns is interested in the job. Not only that, but according to the column, he has won three division II national championships! It looks like somebody didn't do their homework before writing that one.

[elmduf]

I was living in West Hall when Behrns was coach. The football players hated his living guts. I don't imagine Lennon liked him either. I don't remember him saying anything about Behrns, but I remember some others talking about him.

I would imagine that Behrns has wore out his welcome in Omaha also. He is probably looking for greener pastures.

I hope Lennon stays. That would not only be good for the Sioux. Hopefully, if he wishes to move up, it would be to a quality D-IAA program. But, it better not be those Bison! Oh wait, I meant a QUALITY program, so the Bison woudn't be included....

Speaking of (former) NCC coaches, Joe Glenn of Montana (formerly UNC) is rumoured to be in the running for the University of Utah head coach position.

[SDSUFAN]

dbarker:

What does Behens have to do with not preparing for making a post?

Say some thing that is contrary to GF thinking and wow you get criticism. About the only place there are more thin skins now days besides GF is in Vermillion. We all know why that is.

I just presented my scenerio and yes some more UND fans will call it wishful thinking. What makes you want to think Lennon is content to coach at UND for ever? Just because he played football and a alumus?

Thats wishful thinking too.

Behrns is a very intense person and I think he may have gotten his program as far as he can take it. After his third year, he had ran off a number of his predecessor (Tom Muellers) recruits and had about 30 scholarships available and it happen to be a year when a great deal of talent was available. Most of the that talent has now come and gone. He might just be looking for a new job, I dont know. Wanless is not a stranger to Behrns either. The coaches and AD's in the NCC all get to know each other so Behen' s interest is not unusuall by any means. I guess I dont know everything.

Lennon was an assistant when Wanless was AD at UND, so they are not strangers either. Whether he hired him or not is not point. During the time Wanless was AD he no doubt got to know his employees including Assistants. So hiring does not mean jacksh#t when it comes to future positions. Its who you know and not who you......

[dbarker]

dbarker:

What does Behens have to do with not preparing for making a post?

Say some thing that is contrary to GF thinking and wow you get criticism. About the only place there are more thin skins now days besides GF is in Vermillion.

[SDSUFAN]

dbarker:

Sorry about misinterpetation.

I guess we will just have to wait and see. Lennon just strikes me as a guy who likes challenges. I would agree that the Sac State program is nearly in shambles. I dont know what kind of fund raising has been in place at Sac either. I do know from the Big Sky board, maybe three years ago there was mention that Sac State finally got their funding of football scholarships up to sixty or there about. With an acting AD before, who also doubled as a womens bb coach prior to Wanless's hiring, its hard to say where their funding of the football program is at this point.

I have heard from a reliable source at SDSU, that the Big Sky is about about to kick Sac State and Portland State out of the Big Sky because they have no made progress in facilities and improving their attendence records. Portland has averaged 500 for basketball.

Another thing I recall from the Big SKy board was talk about football tickets at Portland state where they would literally give their tickets away to businsess in order to claim a sell out. Tickets were given to some business at 5 bucks a ticket and then there would be no butts in the seat. Portland would then claim attendence of 15,000, when in reality maybe 5000 butts in the seats occurred. You cant fund a program at 5 bucks a seat. You have to make up the difference somewhere else.

Wanless has got a challenge ahead of himself and maybe it will take a Lennon or a Behrns to save the day for Sac State. I think the NCC is far ahead of some of the Big Sky members. Maybe the Big SKy commish privately wishes some new members. Possibly from the NCC.

[RD17]

I could see Dale Lennon wanting to take a shot at coaching above the D2 level at some point, but the Sac St. job would be a major risk for a young head coach. The way to move up in the coaching world is to do like Joe Glenn did- wait for an opportunity to take over a solid program at the next level. Terry Wanless is a football guy and he'll probably be successful at getting the football program going in the right direction, but the entire athletic department there is such a mess that who knows.

My gut feeling is that when it's all said and done, Lennon will stay at UND. The school has had an excellent track record of retaining its coaches in the high profile sports so they must be doing something right.

[U2Bad1]

Isn't Sac st a football program that routinely gets their *** kicked by D-2 soon to be D-1 Cal davis??

[JBB]

Sac State is the perfect opportunity for a young football coach, just like it was the perfect opportunity for Wanless. The sports programs are bad and many before them have failed to make improvements. But, if you can get the program up and running your going to look good. Lots of upside potential and very little downside. If you took over a going program like Babich and run it into the ground your future opportunites are probably in insurance sales.

The fact that Lennon is interested is not suprising. What coach wouldnt want the opportunity. Of course enough money can be put on the table to keep him here but that still wont get him into D1AA football. That has to be an exciting proposition for any D2 coach.

[jimdahl]

If you took over a going program like Babich and run it into the ground your future opportunites are probably in insurance sales.

Makes me wonder if Lennon's chances to move weren't hurt a little by this season? I suspect he appeared on a few D-IAA institution's "short lists" after the 2001 season, but he failed to sell himself this year.

However, as dbarker pointed out, I'm not sure everyone would consider Sac State a better coaching job than UND. There's a lot of overlap between D-IAA and D-II, and UND is (usually) considered near the top of D-II and Sac State near the bottom of D-IAA. If he wanted to use it as a stepping stone, it's probably a great opportunity; if he's not that ambitious, it might not be a much better job.

Anyway, thanks for pointing this out JBB. I actually hadn't heard it before.

[JBB]

Wanless took over at Sac State because it has so much upside. It also has an alumni base that is tired of playing doormat for Davis and struggling in the Big Sky. Almost all programs develop by attracting new, younger coaching talents. If Lennon has lost opportunity because of the poor performance of his team it only makes it more likely that he will move to Sac State because he will have less true opportunity. Apparently that fact hasnt cooled Wanless on the idea.

I'd Keep an eye on the basketball coaches as well. The entire Sac State Athletic department needs rebuilding. I dont know how successfull the swiming coaches are but Id watch them too.

Wanless would love to drain you. You know the history. And if he can offer the opportunity and dollars to likely candidates that have a high probabilty of success why not your coaches?

[jimdahl]

Well, for Wanless, who as far as I know was unemployed, it was a great opportunity.

For already employed coaches, I'm not sure Sac State is actually a better final destination than UND (depends on how much you value nice weather, I guess). However, I definitely agree that any ambitious coach who wanted to end up at an even better school could have a great opportunity to use Sac State as a stepping stone. Rebuilding any sort of a program there would be a fine feather in the cap and help line up better D-I coaching jobs.

Some coaches also might relish the challenge of trying to build a new program rather than ride in the comfort of an existing (usually) successful program. I guess it all depends what motivates Dale and what his ambitions are.

[PCM]

Am I the only person who remembers how widely despised Wanless was at UND? And that was before Gasparini was fired and he really got on Ralph's bad side. As I recall, the Herald even did a big story about Wanless and his management style. It was none too flattering.

It's true that UND enjoyed a good deal of athletic success under his tenure, but my view that it was in spite of him, not because of him.

I find it difficult to believe that any UND coach who served under Wanless would want to work for him again. But who knows? Stranger things have happened.

[dbarker]

Am I the only person who remembers how widely despised Wanless was at UND? And that was before Gasparini was fired and he really got on Ralph's bad side. As I recall, the Herald even did a big story about Wanless and his management style. It was none too flattering.

It's true that UND enjoyed a good deal of athletic success under his tenure, but my view that it was in spite of him, not because of him.

I find it difficult to believe that any UND coach who served under Wanless would want to work for him again. But who knows? Stranger things have happened.

You're definitely not the only one. And I don't think it was just a coincidence that it took Wanless three years to find another job after leaving UND.

I'm certainly not surprised that Lennon would say he would listen if Wanless called. There's probably not too many of us who wouldn't at least listen if someone wanted to potentially offer us a job. But listening and actually taking a job are two very different things. I guess we should be thankful that we have a coach who other schools want, as opposed to a guy who will probably be fired within a year like a certain Bison coach.

[JBB]

How can you possibly run down Wanless as you have done and then turn around and claim to take pride in the fact " that we have a coach who other schools want"? Its one school and its the the despised Wanless.

Another year like this one and you will be thinking Bob Babich might not be too bad!

[Goon]

How can you possibly run down Wanless as you have done and then turn around and claim to take pride in the fact " that we have a coach who other schools want"? Its one school and its the the despised Wanless.

Another year like this one and you will be thinking Bob Babich might not be too bad!

I am beginning to think that JBB is nothing more than a self rightous boob/troll/knuckle head that has nothing better to do than hang out at Siouxsports.com and try to impress us with his Liberal Arts Education, that he is getting from NDSuck. I sure as hell am not too impressed with him. Its almost like he is sleeping with John Hoff. Never mind the fact that his views on the logo/name are so easy to shoot holes in. Blah, Blah, Blah...

Ok, JBB do us a favor and go over to bisonville.com and talk about how your teams at your school suck. Remember Suck starts with SU.

For your information, Wanless was also a self rightous puke like you. He was run out of town for a couple of reasons. He is not missed here or was he that liked, move on and get over your self JBB.

[dbarker]

JBB-

I'll spell it out for you, since I realize you're a little slow. Dale Lennon has proven he is a good coach, and he could have any number of positions should he choose to leave UND. You see, he has actually won two NCC titles and a national championship during his brief four-year tenure as UND's head coach. Bob Babich, on the other hand, has been pretty much a joke during his time at ndsu. He pretty consistently loses to UND (2 and 4, I believe), he hasn't won a single conference title, and he has run your little program into the ground. You know it, I know it, and pretty much everybody knows it except maybe Bob himself, Joseph Chapman, and Gene Taylor. So please, quit embarrassing yourself and your school. Most people would realize that it's stupid to talk smack when you are a fan of the worst football team in the NCC.

[JBB]

Both coaches have been on the job for 5 years. Both had only their recruits on the field this year. Lets look at the records:

Babich, bless his heart, has a 44-15 record at NDSU. Some of his best teams came from recruiting that Hagger did. Babich coached his QB to 4 Prestigious and much sought after Golden Arm Awards.

Lennon on the other hand has a 43-16 record at your institution of racist intent. His best team was assembled by Roger "Ill take this up at the winter meetings" Thomas. As soon as Lennon was on his own your team did no better than second to last in the NCC and a losing record. Lennon was unable to coach his quarterbacks to any Golden Arm Awards.

Both coaches appear to have had bad years. Babich has a better overall record than your Cal. bound Dale "hey look at my haircut" Lennon. Lennon on the other hand has more team honors. Neither is a great coach. Neither will be around in 3 years.

I know when you guys are faced with truth you react rather abruptly, but I understand your potential and I don't believe you should be ashamed. However, whining and crying and ordering your guests out is really something you should get over.

Now, if you want to argue that Babich is a bigger loser than Lennon have at it. A loser is a loser.