More sports to DI?

[dakotadan]

With Kupchella preparing the Strategic Plan II, they have stated that they will continue to look at DI as an option or moving more teams up to DI while keeping the others at DII. I know the university's ultimate goal would be to move the football team up to DI-AA. Current NCAA rules allow a school to move up 2 sports teams up to DI, this excludes football and men's and women's basketball. Hockey does not count towards this because there is no DII hockey championship. So UND still has the option of moving 2 sports teams up to DI. I know this rule has been talked about on here before. Would UND be looking at this as an option to silence some of the concerns of alumni who want to go DI? I don't think it would be such a bad idea, that way in the future if UND does decided to go DI in all sports those two teams would already be funded at the DI level. In a way it is just taking small steps into DI. I assume that USD is in the same boat with some alumni pushing for DI, maybe they would consider it along with us. The two U's could possibly move their swimming and diving teams up, or golf. Just an idea.

What do you people think?

[UND Fan]

With Kupchella preparing the Strategic Plan II, they have stated that they will continue to look at DI as an option or moving more teams up to DI while keeping the others at DII. I know the university's ultimate goal would be to move the football team up to DI-AA. Current NCAA rules allow a school to move up 2 sports teams up to DI, this excludes football and men's and women's basketball. Hockey does not count towards this because there is no DII hockey championship.  So UND still has the option of moving 2 sports teams up to DI. I know this rule has been talked about on here before. Would UND be looking at this as an option to silence some of the concerns of alumni who want to go DI? I don't think it would be such a bad idea, that way in the future if UND does decided to go DI in all sports those two teams would already be funded at the DI level. In a way it is just taking small steps into DI. I assume that USD is in the same boat with some alumni pushing for DI, maybe they would consider it along with us. The two U's could possibly move their swimming and diving teams up, or golf. Just an idea.

What do you people think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting question but I don't think moving to DI in any of the non-revenue producing sports would mean much to fans. More importantly, I don't know of a sport where we could compete at the DI level. We have a great swimming program but, even with more scholarships, we are not going to be able to compete with DI teams. Tennis, golf, track, soccer, etc. - no way we can be competitive in those sports.

[Cratter]

A couple years ago a Division 2 team won the Division I Men's volleyball national championship! Try telling them they can't compete.

[ESPNInsider]

A couple years ago a Division 2 team won the Division I Men's volleyball national championship!  Try telling them they can't compete.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We don't have men's volleyball, so I guess we can't compete

[Woden]

I know the university's ultimate goal would be to move the football team up to DI-AA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, from what I'm hearing, the ultimate goal is to go IA. SU is doing this for sure within the next 10 years or so, and don't be surprised if UND does the same.

[UND Fan]

I will repeat my earlier comment. I would love to be wrong on this but I don't see how we could ever be competitive at the national level in DI in any of the non-revenue sports. We don't have the pool of athletes in this area to compete and the local weather isn't conducive to UND being a great place to excel (golf, baseball, softball, etc.) Bringing outstanding athletes into Grand Forks' remote location and questionable climate isn't likely to happen. Again, I certainly wish this weren't the case.

[dakotadan]

I don't think it is a bad idea. I understand that just by moving a non-revenue sport up to DI it is not going to automatically be the big draw in town. But it would make a potential future move slightly easier. And with a little commitment from UND, there is no reason we could not have more nationally competative teams in DI. I like the idea.

[ESPNInsider]

So what team are you proposing UND should move up? Are these teams going to be in favor of the move? Look at NDSU's wrestling program in the past, they were very, very good yet they stayed DII. I don't like the idea unless it is necessary to get football to 1AA.

On a side note I don't think that the NDSU's and UND's of the world should set their sites on 1A. 1AA is high enough, why stretch a program to the limits and be a low end 1A when you could be successful in 1AA? These schools will never, ever be invited to a BCS bowl and you can take that to the bank! NDSU fans saying that they will be competing for nat. championships in 1A football in 20 years is an absolute joke. (and they are saying this) Let's move slowly and get everything right so we don't have to go in the hole digging ourselves out of a stupid move!

[UND Fan]

I know that every one of the coaches for UND's non-revenue sports does not want to move up. They don't feel that they can be competitive - and I think they are right!

If FB scholarships are cut, we will have to make the move to DI and I will endorse it but it will be the "kiss of death" for all other sports with the possible exception of women's BB where we could be competitive!

[Woden]

If FB scholarships are cut, we will have to make the move to DI and I will endorse it but it will be the "kiss of death" for all other sports with the possible exception of women's BB where we could be competitive!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right now there is legislation in the NCAA that would allow a program to have D1 football without requiring all the other sports to also move up. If this passes, and I believe it eventually will, there is no doubt that football will move to 1AA or 1A (which is more realistic than a lot of people want to believe). This proposal will probably not be passed and take effect for another 5 years or so, however.

[Cratter]

Right now there is legislation in the NCAA that would allow a program to have D1 football without requiring all the other sports to also move up. If this passes, and I believe it eventually will, there is no doubt that football will move to 1AA or 1A (which is more realistic than a lot of people want to believe). This proposal will probably not be passed and take effect for another 5 years or so, however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once this happens watch more D2 schools to do the same, as UND may, hence making the current Division IAA look like the current Division 2. Then also don't be surprised that some current Division IAA schools to move to Division IA.

Then one must ask what's the point? There needs to be actual standards that must be met and enforced amongst the different classifications. The only things right now is that IA teams must average 15,000 per game, with many ways to get around that and even the NCAA considering getting rid of it. Divisions should be divided among enrollment, attendance, tradition, and (possibly locale)...without having the whole school classify in one classification.

Example: Schools with 10,000-20,000 enrollment & 5-15,000 in football attendance play together in Division 2 or I-AA.

[bisonguy]

Right now there is legislation in the NCAA that would allow a program to have D1 football without requiring all the other sports to also move up. If this passes, and I believe it eventually will, there is no doubt that football will move to 1AA or 1A (which is more realistic than a lot of people want to believe). This proposal will probably not be passed and take effect for another 5 years or so, however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This "legislation" is nothing more than murmurs from the DII members to control their membership. Any legislation would need to take place at the DI level.

ESPNInsider- please show me where any Bison fans are stating that NDSU could win a NC at the I-A level (they definitely are not on the Bisonville board). Maybe at the I-AA level in 5-10 years, but the vast majority of Bison fans know that NDSU would be lucky to receive a bid to the Butter Cream Mint Bowl after 10 years and a lot of financial support.

[dakotadan]

There is a difference between moving teams up for the sake of moving them up and actually moving them up and supporting them. There is no reason that our swimming and diving teams or golf teams, etc. couldn't be competative at the DI level as long as the school actually was dedicated to making them successful. With a little commitment from UND and the Athletic Department, such as extra assistant coaches, money for recruiting trips and visits, even recruiting top notch coaches, there is no reason that we could not have non-revenue sports be competative. Track and field would probably be the hardest to be competative in at the DI level as far as non-revenue sports.

[dakotadan]

Also, the chances of legislation happening to allow only FB teams to move up is zip to none. Schools that are already DI are not going to give up a bigger cut of the true money maker on campus to allow DII schools to make more money on FB while not committing the rest of their sports to the DI level.

[UND Fan]

There is a difference between moving teams up for the sake of moving them up and actually moving them up and supporting them. There is no reason that our swimming and diving teams or golf teams, etc. couldn't be competative at the DI level as long as the school actually was dedicated to making them successful. With a little commitment from UND and the Athletic Department, such as extra assistant coaches, money for recruiting trips and visits, even recruiting top notch coaches, there is no reason that we could not have non-revenue sports be competative. Track and field would probably be the hardest to be competative in at the DI level as far as non-revenue sports.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate your positive attitude but how do you expect a talented young guy or girl golfer to opt to go to UND where the weather is such that it is difficult to play much of the school year. If you were a talented kid who loved to golf and you got a scholarship offer from UND and most any DI college south of GF, which would you take? I am sure you would go where you could play the most golf. I really doubt we would have much luck bringing in DI quality swimmers. We have an awfully good program but not many DI-quality swimmers. Even with more scholarship $, I am not sure that we could land many DI swimmers - they would have to come from other parts of the country. Kids who are talented enough to get scholarships would likley go somewhere a little sexier with better weather.

Heck, we have great basketball facility and a pretty good tradition but we have trouble recruiting talented players because of our remote location and weather.

If you disagree with me, please ask any of UND coaches other than Hakstol, Lennon (he has this problem to some degree) and Roebuck for their thoughts on this.

[Cratter]

If you disagree with me, please ask any of UND coaches other than Hakstol, Lennon (he has this problem to some degree) and Roebuck for their thoughts on this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do you say "other than"? Because those coaches have been extremely successful recruiting top notch athletes to cold, isolated North Dakota, when some of them had the chance to go to a warmer climate? I sometimes wonder how UND is able to be competitive at the Division 2 level because of where it is located.

[ndsu92]

weather aside...(some of these top-notched athletes are already from this remote, frigid area and choose to remain close...and people are nice for the most part)..lets not forget that UND has an excellent offering in courses which could draw a few...aviation..medicine...law...I'm not saying that's as impressive as Florida weather to a young kid..etc. I think the biggest drawback to recruiting when you have changed divisions is the length of time to actually get to play for something...how many athletes want to come and spend their 4 years playing games that "don't really matter" or with no chance of playing for a NC for X number of years.....I think that should be changed.

[UND Fan]

Why do you say "other than"? Because those coaches have been extremely successful recruiting top notch athletes to cold, isolated North Dakota, when some of them had the chance to go to a warmer climate? I sometimes wonder how UND is able to be competitive at the Division 2 level because of where it is located.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look at the rosters of those teams. Once in a while we get someone from somewhere other than ND, MN or WS but not often. Fortunately, we get a few (Crouse, for instance) due to our aviation program.

The reason I mention Hakstol is obvious, we have had a top notch hockey program for many years with the best facility in the country.

Lennon - I think we have the quality of program, coaching and facilities to easily to very competitive in I-AA. But if you look at last year's roster, you will see only 8 kids not from ND, SD, MN or WS. They are from CO - 4, Alaska - 1, Canada -2, and CA - 1 (transfer from Michigan Tech). Not many from warmer climates! If you look at this year's recruits, they all came from ND, MN and WS. That being said, we have not really recruited too many other areas (other than CO). I do think, due to our staff, facilities, etc., that we could bring in some FB players from other parts of the country. NDSU has has been quite successful in doing so - especially since they have the full ride scholarships to offer. SU also has a couple of black coaches which certainly helps in the recruitment of young black athletes. Not a racist comment but fact!

Roebuck - Again we have a tradition, good coaching and a great facility. Two of our current players are not from ND or MN (one from Iowa and one for IL). This area simply produces a lot of very good female BB players. Many more ladies from our area are capable of playing DI or DII BB than their male counterparts. Plus, the average female appears to be more interested in playing close to home than the guys.

Bottom line - it is difficult to get kids to UND from out of the area. It is a long ways and expensive for parents, girlfriends, etc. to come and see their loved ones play. There are many other alternatives nearer them or in more "sexy" climates. Other coaches "sell" against us due to location, weather, us being a "hockey school" etc.

Some of this is absolutely offset by UND being a great academic university, having a very good reputation and having above average facilities (both athletic and non-athletic) but it remains difficult to get young kids to commit to somewhere a long ways from home and "north" of where they live.

Cratter - I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this but I am curious which top notch athletes from out of the area (not from MN, ND, SD, WS or Canada) you are referring to? We get quite a few swimmers from other parts of the country but I am not sure if they would be of DI quality.

Again, I would suggest that you ask any of those coaches (including Roebuck - he doesn't want to go DI) regarding their confidence in our being successful at the DI level. I do not believe that you will get any positive responses.

NDSU92 - I appreciate your comments - especially about the wait before becoming eligible to compete for championships. Some of the above applies to your comments as well.

[legend334]

if weather is our biggest obstacle...why isnt UND looking at connecting buildings on campus...like UMD, Bemidji St...that way you can tell the student athlete...you get to campus...and dont worry about the 80 below wind chill because you will be inside a tunnel and wont have to walk outside when its bitterly cold?? any thoughts??

[Cratter]

Cratter - I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this but I am curious which top notch athletes from out of the area (not from MN, ND, SD, WS or Canada) you are referring to? We get quite a few swimmers from other parts of the country but I am not sure if they would be of DI quality.

Again, I would suggest that you ask any of those coaches (including Roebuck - he doesn't want to go DI) regarding their confidence in our being successful at the DI level. I do not believe that you will get any positive responses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First off I don't really care what the coaches think. I think some people know more than others, and I think some people have negative attitudes about certain things more than others. A coach doesn't know more than any other person, all they know how to do is coach a team, excluding Glas. Obviously other coaches are going to call UND a "hockey school" cause it is. BTW, it goes both ways, UND tells it's (hockey) recruits Wisconsin is a "football" school. I just find your "cold weather" statement a bit casuistical. I prefer facts. The facts of the situation is UND is a good school athletics wise and academics wise. They have some great athletes and can compete with anyone in the country. Who would have thought UND could compete at with MN & MI at hockey 60 years ago, something makes me think you would be a disbeliever. Unfortunately someone probably didn't ask "certain people" what they thought and now the program has 7 National Titles. That said, I think UND belongs in Division 2, and so do other IAA schools, besides, NDSU and certain D2 schools belong D3 (see NSIC), but alas I don't have the answers to those questions.

Maviael Sampaio, the head coach of swimming & diving, must think his team can be "competitive" against division I competition, because after all he wasn't afraid to schedule meets at Air Force, Denver, Wisconsin - Green Bay, and Minnesota. Also they seem to do alright with people not from "the area," infact the majority of them aren't from ND, MN, or WI. But go ahead and rationalize the fact.

[UND Fan]

First off I don't really care what the coaches think. I think some people know more than others, and I think some people have negative attitudes about certain things more than others. A coach doesn't know more than any other person, all they know how to do is coach a team, excluding Glas. Obviously other coaches are going to call UND a "hockey school" cause it is. BTW, it goes both ways, UND tells it's (hockey) recruits Wisconsin is a "football" school. I just find your "cold weather" statement a bit casuistical. I prefer facts. The facts of the situation is UND is a good school athletics wise and academics wise. They have some great athletes and can compete with anyone in the country. Who would have thought UND could compete at with MN & MI at hockey 60 years ago, something makes me think you would be a disbeliever. Unfortunately someone probably didn't ask "certain people" what they thought and now the program has 7 National Titles. That said, I think UND belongs in Division 2, and so do other IAA schools, besides, NDSU and certain D2 schools belong D3 (see NSIC), but alas I don't have the answers to those questions.

Maviael Sampaio, the head coach of swimming & diving, must think his team can be "competitive" against division I competition, because after all he wasn't afraid to schedule meets at Air Force, Denver, Wisconsin - Green Bay, and Minnesota. Also they seem to do alright with people not from "the area," infact the majority of them aren't from ND, MN, or WI. But go ahead and rationalize the fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cratter - as I said, we will just "agree to disagree". As a loyal UND fan and booster, I sincerely wish that I was wrong on this issue and you were right! Let's end our debate but I am curious how you think you or I would have a better sense of all this than UND coaches. They are the ones doing the recruiting and needing to put competitive teams on the field/court!

[dakotadan]

Look at the rosters of those teams.  Once in a while we get someone from somewhere other than ND, MN or WS but not often.  Fortunately, we get a few (Crouse, for instance) due to our aviation program.

The reason I mention Hakstol is obvious, we have had a top notch hockey program for many years with the best facility in the country.

Lennon - I think we have the quality of program, coaching and facilities to easily to very competitive in I-AA.  But if you look at last year's roster,  you will see only 8 kids not from ND, SD, MN or WS.  They are from CO - 4, Alaska - 1, Canada -2, and CA - 1 (transfer from Michigan Tech).  Not many from warmer climates!  If you look at this year's recruits, they all came from ND, MN and WS.  That being said, we have not really recruited too many other areas (other than CO).

Roebuck - Again we have a tradition, good coaching and a great facility.  Two of our current players are not from ND or MN (one from Iowa and one for IL). 

Cratter - I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this but I am curious which top notch athletes from out of the area (not from MN, ND, SD, WS or Canada) you are referring to?  We get quite a few swimmers from other parts of the country but I am not sure if they would be of DI quality.

It is something called a recruiting area. The reason we are only getting recruits from these few select areas is the simple fact that is where our recruiting area lies for our various sports. Every sport scouts only a few selected areas of the country. UND does not have the money to be flying our assistant coaches to every single state in the country. If a move to DI were to happen, more money would be invested in recruiting so that our recruiting area could expand.

[bisonguy]

It is something called a recruiting area. The reason we are only getting recruits from these few select areas is the simple fact that is where our recruiting area lies for our various sports. Every sport scouts only a few selected areas of the country. UND does not have the money to be flying our assistant coaches to every single state in the country. If a move to DI were to happen, more money would be invested in recruiting so that our recruiting area could expand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "recruiting area" also has to do with tuition. I'm sure the UND athletic department would rather pay student-athlete tuition that is in-state or that at least from a state that has some sort of reciprocity.

[star2city]

Again, I would suggest that you ask any of those coaches (including Roebuck - he doesn't want to go DI) regarding their confidence in our being successful at the DI level.  I do not believe that you will get any positive responses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UND Fan:

Have you heard from Lennon on his view on being successful at DIAA fottball? Just curious.

[UND Fan]