Hockey

[chevy49]

When will Hakstol start benching #2, Mr. Green (alias Mr. Goon) like Dean used to do. He cost the team once more another two points. At the end of the season, remember the two points lost against Alaska last weekend and the one tonight against the Dogs. I bet Sandelin loves Green tonight.

[Mad Man]

Green can't be blamed for a bad call made by a ref. Anderson didn't see what happend but because of crowd reaction he looking back and saw a Duluth player laying on the ice so he called a penalty. Unfortunatly it was at the same time the AR called a penalty on Jones. (A penalty he shouldn't have called since the ref was watching Jones and didn't look like he was going to call anything.)

Its simply a team loss. UND had opportunities to put the Dogs away earlier in the game but didn't get the job done. To blame one player because of one questionable call isn't really fair.

[AZSIOUX]

what a funny statement, never mind the 2 bad defensive plays by the TEAM that led to 2 goals, does he take dumb penalties sometimes? yes, but to blame a loss on him is funny...or like you state he cost us another 2 points?? THE TEAM deserves the blame for this one..

When will Hakstol start benching #2, Mr. Green (alias Mr. Goon) like Dean used to do.

[Shawn-O]

[Diggler]

Greene got hosed, absolutely hosed. Whoever called it, he was wrong. It was a clean check made by Greene. If it was that stupid linesman, he should practice calling offsides in a timely fashion before taking on the responsibility of calling penalties too.

[Goon]

Gotta respond to this one.  I was at the DECC, and the Jones-Greene defensive pairing continues to disappoint.  They have both regressed since last season, and have not lived up to expectations.  This is one Sioux fan that's had it up to here with these two.  How they continue to get a free pass by many on these forums is beyond me.  Their play has not been becoming of a team captain and a senior leader, in my unexpert opinion.  They just can't stay out of the box. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I reviewed the tape of the game with a buddy of mine and we counted about 11 scoring opportunities that UND failed to cash in on. I don't think we can blame this penalty on the loss of the game. The forwards failed to cash in and it came back to haunt the team. UND is going to have to put some teams away. UND was definately the better team this weekend. I wouldn't mind if UND played UMD in the WCHA playoffs at our house. I think UND would lay some smack down on them.

[Shawn-O]

Actually I reviewed the tape of the game with a buddy of mine and we counted about 11 scoring opportunities that UND failed to cash in on. I don't think we can blame this penalty on the loss of the game. The forwards failed to cash in and it came back to haunt the team. UND is going to have to put some teams away. UND was definately the better team this weekend. I wouldn't mind if UND played UMD in the WCHA playoffs at our house. I think UND would lay some smack down on them.

The Stafford-Zajac-Murray line was all over the ice both nights, Friday in particular. I don't think we can ask for much more. As for the forwards as a whole, if we're banking on 4-5 goals per game to win, we've got serious issues. Grinding it out to the tune of 2-1, 3-2 is the way I see this team making noise in March. Giving up 40 shots won't get 'er done. My expectations are higher for a d-unit with three seniors and a junior captain than they are for a forward group losing Parise, Bo, and Lundbohm. There's no right or wrong answer, it's just my opinion. The McNaughton is probably by the boards, but bigger things are still very much possible.

[Supertrex]

If the kind of team "let downs" we've all witnessed this year (repeatedly allowing tieing goals less than a minute after scoring, allowing a game winner in the final seconds, etc.) continue, this team will exit the season early. This is coaching, pure and simple. This team has ten NHL draft picks. It's the coach's responsibility to make that talent into a team.

If this continues, it won't be long until we are doing another "national" search for the next guy on the bench.

[NDFlyer]

LOL! redwing77!!!

You are lumping David Hale in with THAT group of NHL defenseman??? Can this possibly be justified?

LOL!

[shep]

LOL!  redwing77!!!

You are lumping David Hale in with THAT  group of  NHL defenseman???  Can this possibly be justified? 

LOL!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even funnier (well, as funny) is the attempted connection of Greene to that group (other than Hale).

Apparently he forgot Bobby Orr.

shep

[PCM]

Apparently he forgot Bobby Orr.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what about Walt Tkachuk? Sure, he wasn't a defenseman and he's probably not in the Hall of Fame, but I'm going to allow minor details like that stop me from putting him on the list.

[NDFlyer]

If Hale is elected to the Hall of Fame he will become the first skater to ever be elected without ever having scored a goal at the NHL level.

[redwing77]

Hmmm... reading comprehension... strong suit?

Remember, I put the term "MOST" in there. I didn't say all.

Make fun all you want. What I was referring to was their defensive playing style. Hale threw just as many people around as Greene did, only he was smaller in size and somehow avoided the repuation Greene got.

I did not say that Greene or Hale would make the NHL hall of fame.

[PCM]

Hmmm...

[redwing77]

[NDFlyer]

If you honestly believe that David Hale at this point in his career even deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence or paragragh as those other defensemen then hockey knowledge is your weak suit.

Some of you guys need to realize that hockey does NOT begin and end in Grand Forks, North Dakota.

[Diggler]

Some of you guys need to realize that hockey does NOT begin and end in Grand Forks, North Dakota.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. It ends in East Grand Forks.

[redwing77]

I'm going to delete that post. Good grief people! This isn't an argument on who belongs in the hall of fame!!!!

I put that paragraph together to explain that all of those players are hard hitting defensemen!!!! Some of whom are so successful at their trade that they could be placed in the hall of fame!!! Since then, it's gone to Hale bashing and ribbing me! WOW!

NDFlyer - I think you're the one with lack of hockey knowledge. I've watched all of the players I mentioned play (which is why I did not mention Orr). I was comparing STYLES.

Edited December 13, 2004 by redwing77

[shep]

I'm going to delete that post.  Good grief people!  This isn't an argument on who belongs in the hall of fame!!!! 

I put that paragraph together to explain that all of those players are hard hitting defensemen!!!!  Some of whom are so successful at their trade that they could be placed in the hall of fame!!!  Since then, it's gone to Hale bashing and ribbing me!  WOW!

NDFlyer - I think you're the one with lack of hockey knowledge.  I've watched all of the players I mentioned play (which is why I did not mention Orr).  I was comparing STYLES.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

red

I understand (now) you were comparing styles, but I can't find a good way to compare Greene to Hale. Greene is undisciplined for much of the time he's on the ice.

Hale was able to be a physical presence with some ability to exercise selfcontrol when the ref is standing right in front/behind him.

Greene has NOT demonstrated that ability for much of this year.

[NDFlyer]

redwing77,

There is only one reason and one reason only you brought up David Hale: he played for the Sioux and you have a blatant bias toward the Sioux. I totally understand what it is to be a homer because I am one of the biggest ones out there myself. However, you must admit that Hale has almost nothing in common with any of the players you mentioned.

Certainly Stevens, Blake, Pronger and, to a certain extent, Hatcher, are all feared hitters in the National League. Borque, while not being a ferocious hitter, is famous for being able to do it at both ends for a very long time. Daneyko has literally zero offensive skills and is famous because he was a horse who could log 28-29 minutes per night and he did it for thousands of years.

Hale has proven only that he can play at the NHL level. Whether or not he ever becomes more than a 4, 5 or 6 dman remains to be seen. The fact that he may or may not be one of your college favorites cannot change this fact.

[roper1313]

Greene got hosed, absolutely hosed.  Whoever called it, he was wrong.  It was a clean check made by Greene.  If it was that stupid linesman, he should practice calling offsides in a timely fashion before taking on the responsibility of calling penalties too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Diggler,

I was in Duluth and had a good look at the "clean check". It wasn't boarding, which was what they called, but it looked like a boarder line check from behind or perhaps a cross check. The Jones call is the one that I missed. I can see the Sioux coming out of that with one penalty, but two boggles the mind. Placing the loss on Jones and Greene is rediculous and assinine, but their play has not been what I expected.

[redwing77]

redwing77,

There is only one reason and one reason only you brought up David Hale:  he played for the Sioux and you have a blatant bias toward the Sioux.  I totally understand what it is to be a homer because I am one of the biggest ones out there myself.  However,  you must admit that  Hale has almost nothing in common with any of the players you mentioned.

Certainly Stevens, Blake, Pronger and, to a certain extent, Hatcher, are all feared hitters in the National League.    Borque, while not being a ferocious hitter,  is famous for being able to do it at both ends for  a very long time.  Daneyko has literally zero offensive skills and is famous  because he was a horse who could log 28-29 minutes per night and he did it for thousands of years.

Hale has proven only that he can play at the NHL level.  Whether or not he ever becomes more than a 4, 5 or 6 dman remains to be seen.  The fact that he may or may not be one of your college favorites cannot change this fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did bring up Hale because he played for the Sioux. So does Greene. The reason why I brought them up wasn't to be a Homer, though it is easy how you would see that. I brought it up because I've watched both players play. I would list Orr in that list, but I didn't see him play at all. I've only heard about him from my father, who watched him play. Second hand knowledge can get exaggerated, so I omitted Orr.

What if I left Hale off the list and used, say, Taylor or John Scott instead? Would that bring more credibility to my list? I would think not. Hale was brought into the equation because he was a hard hitting defensemen that MOST people on this board would be able to recognize.

Greene has been undisciplined at times during this season and his freshman campaign (a lot of his freshman campaign). However, the refs seem to go with reputation to put things over the edge. If Bina had been where Greene was when he got called last Saturday, would Bina have sat? Hard to say, but if it were borderline, I'd put my money on no. If Greene had committed that hit to Murray except done it to Schwabe, would he have been called? Yes. Yes he would have. It may not have even been only 2 minutes either.

Greene hasn't done well this year. I will admit that. Perhaps it is the curse of the letter. Last year Schneider took a nose dive when he strapped that C on his jersey. The year before that, Hale looked more like just another player on the ice rather than an offensive or defensive force.

I have faith in Greene. No doubt it will be his last in a collegiate uniform. I also don't think you can place all of the blame on Greene's shoulders. I'm sure he's already doing that to himself. There are plenty of reasons why we aren't winning games. UMD wasn't better than us on Saturday. They were opportunistic and took advantage of a poor officiating performance and unusually sloppy team defense. Phil can't stop them all.

[siouxyeahyeah]

If the kind of team "let downs" we've all witnessed this year (repeatedly allowing tieing goals less than a minute after scoring, allowing a game winner in the final seconds, etc.) continue, this team will exit the season early. This is coaching, pure and simple. This team has ten NHL draft picks. It's the coach's responsibility to make that talent into a team.

If this continues, it won't be long until we are doing another "national" search for the next guy on the bench.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see we have reverted back to our "it's Hakstol's fault" campaign. We win 5 straight and the fairweather fans find their way back to the board in time to praise the team and coaching staff for a good run. Then we go 1-2 in the next 3 and we're back to whining and placing blame. If I'm not mistaken, it usually takes a few more than one person to affect the outcome of a game. I watched Hakstol coach in Duluth this weekend. He knows his stuff and he can only do so much. Eventually you have to put it in the hands of the players - let them decide if they want to show up on any given game night or not. I also wouldn't mind seeing the habitual penalty offenders or slackers sit a game out to remind them they're not invincible. A good player plays both sides of the ice and above all plays smart. I didn't see a lot of smart playing from most of the team Saturday night. Of course it didn't help that Anderson let the game get out of control. That guy needs to watch some film to figure out how to improve his reffing. Saturday night was not a loss because of one specific factor. Duluth showed up, Isaac played great, the reffing was less than subpar, the defense had many breakdowns, the list goes on and on. Saturday wasn't our night, plain and simple. Don't give me this coaching crap, because that is all it is: crap. When the team decides to play smart and play together they'll be unstoppable. Until then, cheer them on and sit tight...this thing ain't over by a long shot.

[Supertrex]

I see we have reverted back to our "it's Hakstol's fault" campaign. We win 5 straight and the fairweather fans find their way back to the board in time to praise the team and coaching staff for a good run. Then we go 1-2 in the next 3 and we're back to whining and placing blame. If I'm not mistaken, it usually takes a few more than one person to affect the outcome of a game. I watched Hakstol coach in Duluth this weekend. He knows his stuff and he can only do so much. Eventually you have to put it in the hands of the players - let them decide if they want to show up on any given game night or not. I didn't see a lot of smart playing from most of the team Saturday night. Of course it didn't help that Anderson let the game get out of control. That guy needs to watch some film to figure out how to improve his reffing. Saturday night was not a loss because of one specific factor. Duluth showed up, Isaac played great, the reffing was less than subpar, the defense had many breakdowns, the list goes on and on. Saturday wasn't our night, plain and simple. Don't give me this coaching crap, because that is all it is: crap. Until then, cheer them on and sit tight...this thing ain't over by a long shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since I go to EVERY home game and watch or listen to EVERY away game, plus nearly ALL other available games nearly EVERY weekend, I doubt that it is me you are referring to when you say "fairweather fan"....

Your Quote: "I also wouldn't mind seeing the habitual penalty offenders or slackers sit a game out to remind them they're not invincible. A good player plays both sides of the ice and above all plays smart."

That is not a coaching decision (or a lack thereof)?

Let the stupid play and the stupid penalties continue....

[schmidtdoggydog]

RW, if you're comparing Greene to the NHL'ers you mentioned, you are smoking dope.  He is likely a journeyman AHL defenseman, maybe 8th d-man on an NHL roster, at best.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From hockeysfuture.com:

6. (7) Matt Greene (D)