The Division I question...

[PCM]

I'm curious now. What do you think that the Fargo Media is trying to get UND to do? Go DI or stay DII?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think NDSU and the Fargo media know that NDSU's chances of getting into the BSC are better if UND goes, too. It's the only way I can make sense of the Fargo media's current preoccupation with UND records related to DI-AA.

After all, it wasn't that long ago that the Forum declared it would give less coverage to UND because it was in an "inferior" division. What changed? The BSC's interest in UND as a potential member.

It was pretty obvious what UND and the Grand Forks media wanted NDSU to do (i.e. stay in DII).

Cite some evidence, please.

[PCM]

My point was that as a UND student who's tuition does support our athletics team, I feel I should have some say in the matter. And I am sorry if I insulted you or Greater Grand Forks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said you have no say. You have some say as a student. I have some say as a taxpayer. But that would be true whether I lived in Beach or Grand Forks.

[bisonguy]

Cite some evidence, please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about this?- Bisons' D-I move doesn't make sense

Better yet, why hasn't Bakken applied items 1-6 to UND's possible move?

[fightonsioux]

Ryan Bakken is a columnist and reporter. When he writes his column it is meant to be a joke.

[PCM]

How about this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Refresh my memory. Hadn't NDSU already decided to move to DI-AA by the time Bakken wrote this?

Better yet, why hasn't Bakken applied items 1-6 to UND's possible move?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe because UND isn't in DI-AA and hasn't said whether it will be.

[bisonguy]

Ryan Bakken is a columnist and reporter. When he writes his column it is meant to be a joke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or maybe it's just interpreted as such.

[bisonguy]

Refresh my memory. Hadn't NDSU already decided to move to DI-AA by the time Bakken wrote this?

No.

Ryan Bakken article: Tue, May. 28, 2002

NDSU had the Carr Report on Jan 23, 2002, had a meeting to see if the NCC would move up as a group on May 19, 2002, and made the decision to move to DI on August 31, 2002.

[Smoggy]

Or maybe it's just interpreted as such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You need to read his article every week then. Bakken articles are half-serious and he mainly tries to just tell jokes throughout. I believe he also had one about the how UND and the state of ND should give in to every NDSU whim. I believe it was last week. I'll see if I can find it.

Here it is, newer than I thought. Bakken article

I think this one is actually the most serious I've read from him in a while. Though I rarely read his articles.

[bisonguy]

You need to read his article every week then. Bakken articles are half-serious and he mainly tries to just tell jokes throughout. I believe he also had one about the how UND and the state of ND should give in to every NDSU whim. I believe it was last week. I'll see if I can find it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read that one. The sarcasm was obvious, but is missing from some of his other columns.

[PCM]

No.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I'll give you that one. You have Herald columnist Ryan Bakken, who never misses an opportunity to make fun of NDSU, stating his opinon that NDSU's proposed move to DI-AA was a dumb idea.

What else?

[bisonguy]

Cite some evidence, please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I fulfilled the request.

[PCM]

I fulfilled the request.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're saying that one columnist who routinely knocks NDSU is reprsesentative of the Grand Forks media? I don't think so.

[bisonguy]

PCM,

I'm not going to argue about semantics. You asked for some evidence, and I provided some evidence.

Unfortunately, the only Grand Forks media source that is archived on the internet is the Herald, so finding the rest of the GF media comments is nearly impossible

While not directly mentioning NDSU, the following quote during the given time frame (the week after NDSU announced they were moving to DI), seems to be paint a dark picture for a school that is moving to DI

..without the serious financial and university-life problems that a full Division I program can bring.

SOURCE

Or this little gem?

North Dakota State University's planned move to Division I-A would threaten one beloved component of the status quo: UND's rivalry with NDSU.

But is saving that rivalry worth risking the scandals, victory riots and financial hemorrhaging that the Times describes as the "background music" of big-time college sports?

No, in our view. What's yours?

SOURCE

Once again, not directly stating that NDSU should stay DII, but this one is a little more obvious with the reference of scandals, victory riots, and financial hemorrhaging in DI. Sounds like armageddon for any DI school.

(Gene Taylor should read the Herald- here NDSU is DI-A, but he keeps scheduling these DI-AA teams )

Can you cite any examples of the GF media actually being supportive or positive about NDSU's move to DI?

[PCM]

Nice try, bisonguy. Unfortunately, if you read closely, you'll see the Herald editorials you cited discuss reasons why UND shouldn't go DI-AA. They don't say that NDSU shouldn't.

[bisonguy]

Nice try, bisonguy. Unfortunately, if you read closely, you'll see the Herald editorials you cited discuss reasons why UND shouldn't go DI-AA. They don't say that NDSU shouldn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said that they directly did. I stated that the Herald degraded any reason to go DI, directly after NDSU stated they were moving to DI.

Try to follow along:(no insults intended, and are for illustrational purposes only )

You tell me you drive a BMW. I state that everyone that drives a BMW is a pompous, stupid, egotistical jerk and that anyone with more than half a brain would drive a Mercedes-Benz.

Could that be considered an insult towards you?

Once again, has the GF media stated anything positive about NDSU's move to DI?

[SiouxMeNow]

and has the Fargo Media ever SERIOUSLY questioned ndsu's decision to go di-AA??? With ALL the financial facts, not just the faded glory of their last DII championship (now considered WORTHLESS) 14 years ago??

[PCM]

I never said that they directly did. I stated that the Herald degraded any reason to go DI, directly after NDSU stated they were moving to DI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Herald's editorials urged UND not to make the move to DI-AA because after NDSU did, there was pressure on UND to immediately follow suit. Advocating that UND not make the move is not the same as expressing oposition to NDSU's move. I hope you can recognize the difference. It's rather significant.

Try to follow along:(no insults intended, and are for illustrational purposes only  )

You're the one being obtuse. For the record, this is the quote for which I requested supporting evidence:

It was pretty obvious what UND and the Grand Forks media wanted NDSU to do (i.e. stay in DII).

So far, all you've done is refer to a Ryan Bakken column which said that in Bakken's opinion, NDSU wasn't making a smart move. I'm fairly certain that he was speaking only for himself, not the entire Grand Forks media, UND or even the Herald.

Once again, has the GF media stated anything positive about NDSU's move to DI?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I swear, sometimes I think life must be one big chick flick for Bison fans. Why is NDSU so demanding and needy that it requires the love and support of Grand Forks and UND for everything it does? I thought you didn't care what anyone up here thought.

Besides, UND tried to be supportive of NDSU by starting a program in Fargo that helped cover NDSU's academic shortcomings. And what thanks did UND get? NDSU's alleged competition-loving president threw a hissy fit and ran crying to the chancellor to punish the big meanies at UND for hurting his feelings. Where's the gratitude from NDSU when UND tried to be supportive?

[SiouxMeNow]

nice how the Bison piss on us when it's to their advantage (WE'RE DIVISION ONE -- SCREW YOU!!!) and open their mouths when they think it's to their advantage... OHH BIG SKY (ass-kiss...ass-kiss)...if you need UND too, we'll go along!! We can convince them...PLEASE TAKE US TOO!! PURTY PLEASE!!!! You guys need to decide where you stand...as the self-proclaimed MAJOR FLAGSHIP INSTITUTION OF NORTH DAKOTA or a di-AA WANNABEE begging for a conference....personally - i hope the big sky leaves you hanging out to dry in the BRATWURST conference for years...

[bisonguy]

The Herald's editorials urged UND not to make the move to DI-AA because after NDSU did, there was pressure on UND to immediately follow suit. Advocating that UND not make the move is not the same as expressing oposition to NDSU's move. I hope you can recognize the difference. It's rather significant.

Urging while degrading and taking jabs at DI (which NDSU was in the process of moving to). Maybe it was pure coincidence, maybe it was sniping from the comfort of an ivory belltower towards NDSU. IF the Herald had not been so derogatory towards DI (while NDSU was in the process of transition to DI) and attempted to prove UND fit better in DII while stating the benefits of DII, my opinion would be different. Tearing down DI to make DII appear more illustrious seems to have some other motive besides hushing the "If NDSU can do it, why can't we?" crowd.

So far, all you've done is refer to a Ryan Bakken column which said that in Bakken's opinion, NDSU wasn't making a smart move. I'm fairly certain that he was speaking only for himself, not the entire Grand Forks media, UND or even the Herald.

So far, nothing has been documented to counter Bakken's opinion, therefore, that's the GF media's stance as can be proven on an internet message board.

I swear, sometimes I think life must be one big chick flick for Bison fans. Why is NDSU so demanding and needy that it requires the love and support of Grand Forks and UND for everything it does? I thought you didn't care what anyone up here thought.

NDSU isn't. They left UND behind, and now UND is following NDSU around like a puppy.

Why are you so concerned about the love and support of Fargo and NDSU?

The (Fargo) Media and the DI-AA Issue

[PCM]

Urging while degrading and taking jabs at DI (which NDSU was in the process of moving to). Maybe it was pure coincidence, maybe it was sniping from the comfort of an ivory belltower towards NDSU.

I told you the reason why the Herald wrote its editorials. If you don't believe it, that's your problem.

So far, nothing has been documented to counter Bakken's opinion,  therefore,  that's the GF media's stance as can be proven on an internet message board.

The total lack of logic and reasoning in that statement is staggering.

NDSU isn't. They left UND behind, and now UND is following NDSU around like a puppy.

Hey, Mr. Lost Bisonguy Puppy, isn't it ironic that you're here on a UND message board scolding Sioux fans for not being supportive of NDSU? Why is the Fargo Forum, which declared UND too inferior to cover, suddenly devoting so much coverage to UND's DI-AA discussions and publishing UND's records?

Why are you so concerned about the love and support of Fargo and NDSU?

The (Fargo) Media and the DI-AA Issue

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously, reading comprehension isn't a strong point of an NDSU education. My post in that thread had absolutely nothing to do with Fargo and NDSU supporting UND. Try reading it again -- slowly.

[IowaBison]

nice how the Bison piss on us when it's to their advantage (WE'RE DIVISION ONE -- SCREW YOU!!!)

[bisonguy]

Good grief, where to begin?

I told you the reason why the Herald wrote its editorials. If you don't believe it, that's your problem.

That's my opinion, contrary to your opinion.

[PCM]

Huh? I provided an example of the GF media viewpoint. You have provided nothing that proves this is not the case. Something > Nothing.

You provided a link to one person's viewpoint. That person, a Grand Forks Herald columnist, doesn't write editorials for the Herald. He doesn't work for WDAZ. He doesn't work for any of the Grand Forks radio stations.

All it proves that one person in the Grand Forks media was against NDSU's move to DI-AA. It proves nothing about the statement that the Grand Forks media in general was against NDSU's move, which was the claim that started the discussion. Pay attention.

The Forum is covering the story because it's news. 

It's news that there were UND documents saying the exact same thing that Kupchella, Harmeson and Thomas have been saying for months?

They are collecting information from normal means and reporting it. It's called journalism.

Thanks for that lesson in journalism. The other cow college where I received my degree in the subject was a little sketchy on some of the details. Your NDSU education has obviously given you insights into journalism that I never thought possible.

Letting others control your future and only being capable of reacting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if someone said to you, "Future events might force you to jump off a cliff," you'd just go ahead and jump, not knowing whether it was neccessary or if you had a choice?

[bisonguy]

Thanks for proving my point about the GF media.

So if someone said to you, "Future events might force you to jump off a cliff," you'd just go ahead and jump, not knowing whether it was neccessary or if you had a choice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about- If Thundar jumps into a swimming pool and Sue is watching. Does Sue just go ahead and jump in because the only reasoning is fueled by hatred, driven by pride and emotion, and makes no logical or financial sense?

[PCM]

Thanks for proving my point about the GF media.

So now I'm the Grand Forks media? Wow. Ryan Bakken will be disappointed that he lost the title.

My opinion on this subject has always been that NDSU and UND should each pursue courses that they believe to be in their best interests. I can understand why NDSU got tired of living in the shadow of UND's renowned and nationally known Division I hockey team. Pride and emotion are powerful forces that sometimes overpower logic, reason and financial considerations. But Chapman did what he thought was necessary for NDSU, and I'm okay with that.

How about- If Thundar jumps into a swimming pool and Sue is watching. Does Sue just go ahead and jump in because the only reasoning is fueled by hatred, driven by pride and emotion, and makes no logical or financial sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate to break this to you, but you have completely and totally missed the point of Kupchella's letter to the UND football alums. Allow me to paraphrase his main points:

A) UND's decision on whether or not it makes the jump to DI-AA shouldn't be driven by pride or emotion.

B) Future events beyond UND's control (i.e. actions by the NCAA) might force UND to move to DI-AA, even though it makes no sense to do so and the university isn't in a position to support the move financially.

C) If UND decides to or is forced to move up a level, it will require significant increases in the amount of financial support UND receives from its students and alumni.