DI football vs DI basketball

[jdub27]

More ticket sales more money for the NCAA, plus you get a team with a winning record means bowl games again more money for the NCAA. See where I am going with this.

Actually no clue.

The NCAA doesn't get any money from local games during the regular season. The home (host) team gets the ticket revenue. All of the bowl games are filled with teams every year, so a different team with a winning record would just take the place of another team. We don't have bowl games that aren't played because they don't have enough teams. They aren't going to add bowls games just because there is another team with a winning record. Plus the NCAA doesn't control bowl games (although they are a partner in the BCS so they do get some of the revenue). Replacing EMU with another school would do little or nothing to the NCAA bottom line.

What he said. The NCAA doesn't get a cut of their attendance. And as was pointed out, the NCAA doesn't control bowl games. And the BCS doesn't control any bowl game EMU would ever play in anyway so while so not even sure that is an issue even though its a valid point.

[darell1976]

Actually no clue.

What he said. The NCAA doesn't get a cut of their attendance. And as was pointed out, the NCAA doesn't control bowl games. And the BCS doesn't control any bowl game EMU would ever play in anyway so while so not even sure that is an issue even though its a valid point.

The MAC received $12.9 million thanks to Northern Illinois' BCS appearance. Other lower-tiered FBS conferences without a BCS team received between $2.3 million and $4.1 million. Football Championship Subdivision conferences each received $250,000. Independents Navy, Army and BYU got $100,000.

http://www.al.com/sp...audit_show.html

[darell1976]

The NCAA doesn't get any money from local games during the regular season. The home (host) team gets the ticket revenue. All of the bowl games are filled with teams every year, so a different team with a winning record would just take the place of another team. We don't have bowl games that aren't played because they don't have enough teams. They aren't going to add bowls games just because there is another team with a winning record. Plus the NCAA doesn't control bowl games (although they are a partner in the BCS so they do get some of the revenue). Replacing EMU with another school would do little or nothing to the NCAA bottom line.

The BCS will soon be history, the College Football Playoff will replace it, and the non-playoff bowls will be figuring out what the fallout means to them.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/12/bowl_money_101_ncaa_audit_show.html

[jdub27]

http://www.al.com/sp...audit_show.html

What does NIU playing in a BCS bowl have to do with anything? EMU isn't going to play in a BCS bowl, therefore they would not play in a bowl that would have any effect on the NCAA bottom line. Even if they did, it still wouldn't matter. And your link talks about money the conferences get. It doesn't change the amount that the NCAA gets which was your argument to begin with.

http://www.al.com/sp...audit_show.html

The NCAA will get no less or no more money regardless of what division of football EMU plays in. Switching from the BCS to the College Football Playoff does nothing to change that.

Really looks like a big change....

Previous BCS commissioner Bill Hancock is the executive director of the playoff organization, with former ACC Senior Associate Commissioner Michael Kelly as COO. Like the BCS, the playoff system's management committee consists of the conference commissioners from the 10 FBS conferences and Notre Dame's athletic director. The playoff system's headquarters is in Irving, Texas.

[82SiouxGuy]

http://www.al.com/sp...audit_show.html

That doesn't increase the chances of EMU or a replacement school appearing in the College Football Playoffs. And it makes very little difference whether EMU or another school is involved, those individual schools are not going to affect the bottom line of the NCAA in any significant way. Your point was that the NCAA would benefit financially by replacing EMU, and you haven't proven that in any way at all.

[MafiaMan]

NDSU is across the river, biggest show in town and yet Concordia can get more people than Eastern Michigan. I think MSU-Moorhead had around 1800 being in blocks range of Concordia in a city half the size of Bismarck.

Are you seriously comparing the regional popularity of NDSU football in the F-M area against Michigan's popularity in Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti?

[darell1976]

That doesn't increase the chances of EMU or a replacement school appearing in the College Football Playoffs. And it makes very little difference whether EMU or another school is involved, those individual schools are not going to affect the bottom line of the NCAA in any significant way. Your point was that the NCAA would benefit financially by replacing EMU, and you haven't proven that in any way at all.

NCAA makes money off of college sports, we all know that. The more attendance at championship games the more money the NCAA gets (not BCS as you pointed out) look at March Madness if you have say Cal Poly vs EMU for the National Title the NCAA would lose money on attendance as it would be poorly attended.

http://www.fox44.com/news/how-much-money-does-ncaa-make-college-basketball

The NCAA rakes in around $800 million dollars each year.

Its endowment is more than $500 million.

So where does all the money come from?

"The institution itself that's based in Indianapolis, makes money primarily through television rights to the March Madness basketball tournament. They get somewhere in the neighborhood of $770 million dollars a year. That constitutes around 90% of all of the revenue that goes to the NCAA," said Andrew Zimbalist, an economics professor at Smith College.

CBS and Turner Sports, part of the Time Warner family along with CNN, own those broadcast rights.

Ticket sales also make money for the NCAA.

And corporate sponsors pay millions to get their names in the game.

AT&T, Capital One, and Coca-Cola are NCAA "corporate champions"

Other big names have signed on as official corporate partners.

[darell1976]

Are you seriously comparing the regional popularity of NDSU football in the F-M area against Michigan's popularity in Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti?

I'm showing you because you have more than one college in a metro area its not an excuse to only get 4k people at a stadium built for 30k. Moorhead has 32,000 and 2 colleges and across the river is Fargo 105,000 with 1 college that has a stadium at 19,000. MSUM averaged 1800, Concordia averaged more than Eastern Michigan. Ann Arbor has over 119,000 with 19,000 at Ypsilanti, with Detroit Metro at 4.3 mil and 100k is at Michigan, while 4,000 at EMU? It all depends on wins and losses not distance.

[MafiaMan]

More ticket sales more money for the NCAA, plus you get a team with a winning record means bowl games again more money for the NCAA. See where I am going with this.

I think I get your point - NDSU should replace EMU in the MAC.

[darell1976]

I think I get your point - NDSU should replace EMU in the MAC.

Take that up with Bisonville. Lakes would approve that in a heartbeat.

[82SiouxGuy]

NCAA makes money off of college sports, we all know that. The more attendance at championship games the more money the NCAA gets (not BCS as you pointed out) look at March Madness if you have say Cal Poly vs EMU for the National Title the NCAA would lose money on attendance as it would be poorly attended.

http://www.fox44.com...lege-basketball

The NCAA makes most of its' money from television rights, not from the games themselves. TV contracts are signed years in advance. They do not depend on the teams playing in individual games. In addition, most of the ticket sales for NCAA tournament games in football will be sold in advance, just like they are for basketball. The teams playing in the championship game will not affect ticket sales in any significant way. The NCAA Division I Football Championship game will be a sell out no matter who plays. Besides, the chances of EMU, or any school that would replace them, playing in a championship game are minimal. Neither EMU or Youngstown State are going to play in that game in your lifetime. They may have a chance of playing in whatever bowl games continue, the bowl games aren't going away in the near future even with a tournament.

[darell1976]

The NCAA makes most of its' money from television rights, not from the games themselves. TV contracts are signed years in advance. They do not depend on the teams playing in individual games. In addition, most of the ticket sales for NCAA tournament games in football will be sold in advance, just like they are for basketball. The teams playing in the championship game will not affect ticket sales in any significant way. The NCAA Division I Football Championship game will be a sell out no matter who plays. Besides, the chances of EMU, or any school that would replace them, playing in a championship game are minimal. Neither EMU or Youngstown State are going to play in that game in your lifetime. They may have a chance of playing in whatever bowl games continue, the bowl games aren't going away in the near future even with a tournament.

So if EMU plays in the whateverbowl attended by 20,000 in a 60,000 seat stadium there isn't money thats going to be lost if say another MAC team plays in the same bowl attended by 60,000 in a 60,000 seat stadium. Thats my whole point about attendance. I do see where your point is going.

[jdub27]

So if EMU plays in the whateverbowl attended by 20,000 in a 60,000 seat stadium there isn't money thats going to be lost if say another MAC team plays in the same bowl attended by 60,000 in a 60,000 seat stadium. Thats my whole point about attendance. I do see where your point is going.

Not by the NCAA, who has nothing to do with bowl games, which was your reasoning for forcing them down a level. So how again does EMU's attendance hurt the NCAA's bottom line?

[darell1976]

Not by the NCAA, who has nothing to do with bowl games, which was your reasoning for forcing them down a level. So how again does EMU's attendance hurt the NCAA's bottom line?

Attendance does create sponsorship and television, something I know the NCAA loves especially at the top level of football.

[the green team]

Actually, if Eastern Michigan were to make a Kohler Bathroom Fixture's Bowl- I would anticipate that would be of benefit in additional attendance for said bowl. Why? Because when a team who has had a significantly poor run or over the years finally has some success- it activates their fringe fan base and alums. However, if Nebraska has an off season, and only qualifies for the Kohler Bathroom Fixture Bowl- expect the bowl to see a dip in attendance as the fan base really won't be excited to follow that as they would be with an Orange, Rose or Fiesta bid. Nearly all the FBS conferences have a share agreement where if there is money to take home- it all goes into the collective conference pot and gets split amongst all the conference schools. However, I read an interesting article a few years ago, that schools that end up in the "fringe" bowls- early season bowls actually lose money- because they take home the money the conference split it and then when they get their portion of the split they find out that the costs for going to the bowl- over ran what they took home.

[darell1976]

Actually, if Eastern Michigan were to make a Kohler Bathroom Fixture's Bowl- I would anticipate that would be of benefit in additional attendance for said bowl. Why? Because when a team who has had a significantly poor run or over the years finally has some success- it activates their fringe fan base and alums. However, if Nebraska has an off season, and only qualifies for the Kohler Bathroom Fixture Bowl- expect the bowl to see a dip in attendance as the fan base really won't be excited to follow that as they would be with an Orange, Rose or Fiesta bid. Nearly all the FBS conferences have a share agreement where if there is money to take home- it all goes into the collective conference pot and gets split amongst all the conference schools. However, I read an interesting article a few years ago, that schools that end up in the "fringe" bowls- early season bowls actually lose money- because they take home the money the conference split it and then when they get their portion of the split they find out that the costs for going to the bowl- over ran what they took home.

Good post.

[jdub27]

Attendance does create sponsorship and television, something I know the NCAA loves especially at the top level of football.

Wow. Could you stretch any further? The EMU's of the world and their attendance (and anyone who would replace them) aren't even a blip on the NCAA advertiser's radar.

Forcing EMU down a level and replacing them would do nothing for the NCAA's bottom line. You know how I know that? Because if it would make them more money, they would have enforced the rules they have on the books long ago.

Good post.

Very plausible scenario depending on the teams involved but notice that the NCAA making more money has nothing to do with it (again, your point to begin with).

[MafiaMan]

I'm showing you because you have more than one college in a metro area its not an excuse to only get 4k people at a stadium built for 30k. Moorhead has 32,000 and 2 colleges and across the river is Fargo 105,000 with 1 college that has a stadium at 19,000. MSUM averaged 1800, Concordia averaged more than Eastern Michigan. Ann Arbor has over 119,000 with 19,000 at Ypsilanti, with Detroit Metro at 4.3 mil and 100k is at Michigan, while 4,000 at EMU? It all depends on wins and losses not distance.

Stop me if you've heard this one before, but after the name change from Hurons to Eagles in 1991, many alumni and faculty stopped donating $$$ to EMU. In fact, the Huron Restoration Chapter to this day remains an official part of the EMU Alumni Association.

Rynearson Stadium was also only renovated in 1992 to meet the NCAA's then-seating capacity requirements. Obviously keeping the track around the football field was a major gaffe akin to building a multi-purpose cookie-cutter stadium like Veterans Stadium today. A couple of undefeated seasons might help EMU get to 10,000-15,000 per home game, but 30,000 is a pipe dream.

And I still contend the analogy I have used several times now to be 100% accurate: if Ohio State was suddenly playing football on Saturdays in West Fargo, you would hear crickets chirping at small-time games going on in Moorhead and on the campus of NDSU.

[82SiouxGuy]

Attendance does create sponsorship and television, something I know the NCAA loves especially at the top level of football.

Sponsorships are usually multi-year contracts, just like TV contracts. Much of the advertising is sold well in advance of games, often as part of a package deal. No one knows who is going to be playing in a bowl game or a tournament game when the sponsorships or advertising is sold. Neither would be affected by a 1 time appearance by anyone. And attendance at a game doesn't normally have much to do with TV viewership. TV contracts are based on expected viewership, not on attendance at the games.

[darell1976]

Stop me if you've heard this one before, but after the name change from Hurons to Eagles in 1991, many alumni and faculty stopped donating $$$ to EMU. In fact, the Huron Restoration Chapter to this day remains an official part of the EMU Alumni Association.

Rynearson Stadium was also only renovated in 1992 to meet the NCAA's then-seating capacity requirements. Obviously keeping the track around the football field was a major gaffe akin to building a multi-purpose cookie-cutter stadium like Veterans Stadium today. A couple of undefeated seasons might help EMU get to 10,000-15,000 per home game, but 30,000 is a pipe dream.

And I still contend the analogy I have used several times now to be 100% accurate: if Ohio State was suddenly playing football on Saturdays in West Fargo, you would hear crickets chirping at small-time games going on in Moorhead and on the campus of NDSU.

NDSU plays in Fargo--18,622 (Michigan plays in Ann Arbor (111,592), Concordia plays in Moorhead 4427, MSUM plays in Moorhead 1,004 (Eastern Michigan plays in Ypsilanti (4,051) Fargo metro 200,000+; Detroit metro 4.3 million. So when the Gophers play at TCF how come Bethel 4757 can have more than EMU, St. Thomas was also close to EMU 3965. Thats some loud chirping in the Twin Cities when the Gophers are at home.

[MafiaMan]

NDSU plays in Fargo--18,622 (Michigan plays in Ann Arbor (111,592), Concordia plays in Moorhead 4427, MSUM plays in Moorhead 1,004 (Eastern Michigan plays in Ypsilanti (4,051) Fargo metro 200,000+; Detroit metro 4.3 million. So when the Gophers play at TCF how come Bethel 4757 can have more than EMU, St. Thomas was also close to EMU 3965. Thats some loud chirping in the Twin Cities when the Gophers are at home.

...conveniently forgetting the other 75,005 fans in the "Detroit metro" who might be up at that other school in East Lansing...

I dunno, darell, how come a GLI hockey finale of Michigan State vs Michigan at JLA will sell out, but a Michigan Tech vs Western Michigan championship will draw 10,000 less than that?

If UND builds a 30,000 seat football stadium in time for the opener this year, do you think it would sell out? EMU remodeled simply to stay at the top level of the college football food chain...something the administration there should probably re-think.

[darell1976]

...conveniently forgetting the other 75,005 fans in the "Detroit metro" who might be up at that other school in East Lansing...

I dunno, darell, how come a GLI hockey finale of Michigan State vs Michigan at JLA will sell out, but a Michigan Tech vs Western Michigan championship will draw 10,000 less than that?

If UND builds a 30,000 seat football stadium in time for the opener this year, do you think it would sell out? EMU remodeled simply to stay at the top level of the college football food chain...something the administration there should probably re-think.

An outdoor version of the Kibbie Dome.

[SiouxVolley]

EMU has only been DI since 1972. If the choice was made now, the MAC probably would have taken GVSU rather than EMU. EMU doesn't have the football history of the other MAC schools (except Buffalo). EMU can't get its own students interested because of the closness of its campus to the Wolverine campus.

Speaking of GVSU, this name should ring a bell:

http://sports.yahoo....6988-ncaaf.html

[The Sicatoka]

Don't hate on EMU (or Idaho for that matter).

Ask the NCAA why they selectively enforce only certain rules.

[jdub27]

Don't hate on EMU (or Idaho for that matter).

Ask the NCAA why they selectively enforce only certain rules.

Because its not a "feel-good" cause and/or it doesn't cost them any money. Cross either of those lines and you'd have their attention.