Don't let your Huskies...

[sioux fan in phoenix]

I would think most unbiased minds would find the two examples above cases of the Sioux people being embarassed, disgraced, or being made fun of.

Why stop there? I've never been to the new REA, but I think they have the Sioux logo on seats & at certain places in the marble floor around the concourse. Wouldn't fans sitting their arses on these logos & walking all over them constitute a form of disrespect, as well? And if the Minnesota Vikings sell beer in a plastic cup with an image of an old Norse warrior on it isn't that insulting & demeaning of Scandinavians, too? How do you think PETA feels about NDSU using a near-extinct bison for the selfish purpose of promoting its sports program? My point is, where do you draw the line with all this? If I had a liberal bent, I could make a contention against almost any school with any nickname or logo. I have no problem with "the Fighting Sioux", "the Thundering Herd", "the Minnesota Vikings" or any of their merchandising gimmicks & so don't others who have an ounce of common sense.

[DamStrait]

Selling Sioux-per hot dogs or selling Fighting Sioux shotglasses in the bookstore doesn't qualify?

No, it does not qualify. It may not being 'honoring' them, but to say these examples embarass, disgrace, or make fun of the Sioux people is definitely a stretch.

[bisonguy]

[DamStrait]

[Marty]

Shotglasses? Sioux-per dogs? Calling the hot dog a "Sioux-per dog" isn't honoring the Sioux people but is it really poking fun at them? You're calling it a "Sioux-per dog" implying that it's super. It's a good thing.

Every organization that UND sponsors is honoring the Sioux people. From their best hockey team in the nation to the chess club.

[bisonguy]

Damstrait,

That's what I meant to write, so I'll try again (it has been a long week ):

Selling Sioux-per hot dogs at the REA or selling Fighting Sioux shotglasses in the bookstore qualifies as honoring the Sioux people?

Marty,

I truly am playing devil's advocate on this issue. One can also argue that using terms like "Sioux-per" are a convenient and amusing play on words that strips the Sioux name of honor.

If the Alerus starts calling hot dogs Roger Thomas wieners, could that be considered making fun of RT?

[Corella]

If the Alerus starts calling hot dogs Roger Thomas wieners, could that be considered making fun of RT?

Only if they are mini hot dogs .

[Marty]

Damstrait,

That's what I meant to write, so I'll try again (it has been a long week ):

Selling Sioux-per hot dogs at the REA or selling Fighting Sioux shotglasses in the bookstore qualifies as honoring the Sioux people?

Marty,

I truly am playing devil's advocate on this issue. One can also argue that using terms like "Sioux-per" are a convenient and amusing play on words that strips the Sioux name of honor.

If the Alerus starts calling hot dogs Roger Thomas wieners, could that be considered making fun of RT?

Did you read my post at all? If you did read it again.

[bisonguy]

Marty,

I did.

I'm not talking about the chess club, I am talking about the marketing of the Fighting Sioux name. You stated that it does not always honor the name. End of story.

Calling the hot dog a "Sioux-per dog" isn't honoring the Sioux people but is it really poking fun at them?

I then provided a parallel example that proves that it can be interpreted as "poking fun at them".

[Marty]

Obviously they aren't going to name them Roger Thomas weiners because it doesn't sound good. I don't think they would sell to many. It's a Sioux-per dog. How is that a bad thing at all? They are super dogs so they call them Sioux-per dogs. I don't see how that is a bad thing.

[bisonguy]

Marty,

Honestly, your opinion has as much merit as what I was stating. There is always a flip side to a coin. With the lack of objective thinking by most people, there rarely is one viewpoint to an issue. Opinions, prejudices, and judgements lead to differing viewpoints.

I'm just trying to throw out a possible differing viewpoint; as clapping with one hand serves no purpose.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

I'm just trying to throw out a possible differing viewpoint; as clapping with one hand serves no purpose.

That's pretty deep. I think I heard that on the original "Kung Fu" when that old Chinese dude was teaching Grasshopper a valuable lesson.

[huskies679]

Marty- This has been some of the most stupid conversation in the history of the net. Is that all you have, "Sioux-per Hotdogs"? WOW!

[Marty]

Marty- This has been some of the most stupid conversation in the history of the net.  Is that all you have, "Sioux-per Hotdogs"?  WOW!

I didn't even start talking about Sioux-per dogs first! I don't mean to sound like I'm 5 years old but Bisonguy started talking about it first.

If you don't enjoy the conversation why the heck are you reading it! Just click on a different thread. I suppose that maybe a little tough for you since you're a St. Cloud fan though.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

I don't see how they can think that marketing merchandise with the name is a bad thing.

Notre Dame sells shotglasses with their log on it, I'm sure. Should I take it that they are calling me (I'm Irish) an alcoholic, or making fun of where I come from...NO, they are promoting their football, basketball, hockey, etc... teams. Which is what we are doing with our shotglasses and Sioux-perdogs. And I believe the bookstore did stop selling shotglasses...not because they felt they were embarrassing the Sioux, but they felt it promoted drinking. The Sioux pro-shop at REA still sells them, I believe.

[JACKGUY]

My first trip to Grand Forks to watch the jacks and UND play basketball. It was pretty entertaining to see the great lengths the UND administration is going to insure they show respect for the Native American Culture. The monolgue before each game about sportsmanship and respect and than the dance at halftime. The ultimate respect would be to just drop the name. You look so silly trying to suck up that is comes across as anything but sincere but rather a ploy to do and say whatever it takes to retain the Sioux Logo.

[PCM]

You look so silly trying to suck up that is comes across as anything but sincere but rather a ploy to do and say whatever it takes to retain the Sioux Logo.

And such criticism coming from the fan of SDSU, a university that does virtually nothing for Native Americans in comparison to UND, is the heighth of hypocricy.

[JACKGUY]

SDSU is no the one degrading the culture by taking the Native American and making them their mascot. Seems UND has all the apoligizing to do by not getting into the 21st Century. UND has allowed a rich alumnist dictate all terms and policies based on his gift. PCM don't even call yourself an SDSU alumnist even if its true as evidently you have drank too much of the coolaide up there.

[PCM]

SDSU is no the one degrading the culture by taking the Native American and making them their mascot.

March 4, 2002, Sports Illustrated: "Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81% of Native American respondents said no."

Somewhere along the way, SDSU apparently forgot to teach you about the concepts of democracy and freedom of speech. Personally, I have no desire to allow a minority of a minority dictate which words I can and cannot say.

Seems UND has all the apoligizing to do

[JACKGUY]

I guess someone is ill informed or worse if they come on this board and choose to disagree with the UND faithfull.

[ScottM]

I guess someone is ill informed or worse if they come on this board and choose to disagree with the UND faithfull.

Or maybe just patently stupid.

[JACKGUY]

Kind of like your institution looks for trying to rationalize the whole Native American mascot situation.

[ScottM]

Well, yeah, us, Notre Dame, Illinois, Florida State, San Diego State, Utah, Winona State, etc.

Jackass, for as much pleasure as you get rattling around on this site and spewing your idiotic bilge, I would suspect you go through a lot of Kleenex.

[PCM]

I guess someone is ill informed or worse if they come on this board and choose to disagree with the UND faithfull.

You can disagree all you want, but it certainly helps if you can argue from a position based on knowledge and informed opinion.

I've lived in Grand Forks for 12 years. Every time the Sioux name issue or some controversey about Ralph Engelstad is raised, we are bombarded with news coverage and editorial commentary from all over the country. I've paid attention to those stories and have done a good deal of research and reading on the subjects beyond what we see and hear in Grand Forks.

I also know how UND's Native American programs compare to SDSU's, which are essentially token efforts. I'll put what UND does that actually benefits Native Americans throughout the country up against SDSU's pathetic efforts in that area any day of the week.

You're not the first Jackrabbit fan who's come here preaching to us about the Sioux name issue, believing that having a fuzzy bunny logo and supporting the empty symbolic gesture of changing the name somehow makes SDSU morally superior to UND.

So go right on disagreeing all you want. But if you want to pick a fight on this issue, I'd advise you not to bring a pen knife to a gunfight.

[sioux fan in phoenix]

Kind of like your institution looks for trying to rationalize the whole Native American mascot situation.

Are you of Native American heritage? I assume you're not or you would have already made this known in your argument against the Sioux name. So then why are you so offended? Are you so empathic towards another people that the use of this name keeps you awake at night & is affecting your ability to function or do you just like to argue for the sake of arguing? If you really want to make a difference in the lives of Native Americans, why don't you donate some time or money to a worthwhile cause of theirs or become a Big Brother to a fatherless boy instead of ranting about inconsequential trivialities like changing a name? Direct your energy towards something productive & get off the PC bandwagon whose main members are just disgruntled white liberal limp-wrists...