University Senate votes to oppose bills

[MattC]

The faculty have a funny double-standard they are employing in the nickname debate: They curse the nickname as divisive and a "millstone" around the University's neck (nice Biblical reference from the usually non-Biblical scholars). At the same time, they would declare that athletics have nothing to do with the academics of the University. They appear to be able to easily swing their argument back and forth, depending on the circumstance.

When it comes to funding, for instance, the academic side of the University are often quite vocal -- when gifts, funds, or capital expenditures are directed to athletic programs. The common rallying cry from the academic sector is: "The University is NOT about athletics. Funding should be directed to academic needs."

But when the academics have a chance to pontificate from the top of the dias about the nickname issue (for instance), we are told that this "athletics issue" is damaging the University (we may infer that the damage is being caused to the academic wing of the University).

Are there hard facts to back up the professor's claims? Are there any hard facts that show because our sports teams use the name Fighting Sioux, and that as a result of this name, the college is so tainted that grants are being denied, raises being refused, speaking engagements are being declined, publication opportunities are lost, and research is being rejected?

I have wondered, and I am still grappling with the question: Who is UND? Who are we? Who has the right to speak for UND?

I safely include all present students and alumni in that list. I tend to view alumni status as a lifelong mark. Those who attend (attended) UND all paid a hefty price for admission to this private club -- we paid with our time, a period of our life, our money, our seemingly-never-ending loans. Many of us wear the school colors with some varying levels of pride. We take pride and ownership in our school. Its ours. We can't change jobs and suddenly NOT be from UND. We are all UND, forever. Even if some take limited pride in this status -- the status nonetheless remains.

I am not sure who else IS UND. Professors are important, for without them there is no school. But thier relationship is more employer-employee, isn't it? I mean, professors will come and go, as the job market dictates. Do professors have the same emotional attachment to the school wherein they instruct? I don't beleive they do. I think their attachment is something less than the students and alumni.

I am not sure where the local residents, non-alumni, non-student UND supporters fits on this list. Their connection is realistically less than the professors, since these people have nothing except geographic location to attach them to UND. Of course, not everyone goes to college, or goes to UND. These people often have just as deep an emotional stake in UND's health and wellness as the students. So in some ways, their relationship with the school is more deep, more profound, and lasts much longer than msot of the professors (and possibly many of the alumni).

Which of these groups is fit, best, to speak to what is good and not good for the school?

Unless the President of the Unviversity, along with his faculty, can clearly articulate a significant amount of damage caused to the University by continued use of the Fighting Sioux name, then these people MUST bend to the will of the people who have the greater stake in the college. These academics must, in my opinion, accept the will of the students and alumni unless, and until, SOLID proof is shown otherwise.

Not vague arguments about "you just need to educate yourself." I am pretty certain I have followed this issue with more passion and dedication than virtually every professor or faculty member. And I can guess I have been following it for longer than most ofthe professors and leadership have been at UND.

I want hard proof that this name is damaging the academic side of the college. Absent that proof, I respectfully request that the faculty keep their noses out of MY business, shut up, and do their stinking jobs. This fight does not concern them, it never has, it never will.

I've used my positive rep quota for the day or you would be receiving another thumbs up from me. Very nicely written.

[star2city]

Some very good postings today.

Instead of the legislature passing the bills that have been proposed, which would have some potentially very negative effects on the NCAA-UND relationship, I'd like the legislature to go down another path:

- Place the Sioux name as the perpetual nickname of UND on the ballot, so all ND voters have a say.

- Since Sioux County is essentially the Standing Rock reservation, the votes of Sioux County would be a de facto Standing Rock vote.

- If the vote in both Sioux County and North Dakota affirms the nickname, the AG would be required to petition the NCAA for the reinstatement of the Fighting Sioux name, as all requirements of the NCAA would then have been met. The NCAA would have to fold based on this type of democratic action.

If the legislature doesn't impose a statewide vote, the same measure could be put in place by gaining voters signature for an initiative.

If the principles of our representative democracy are properly used, the tyranny of PC politics can and will be defeated.

[Oxbow6]

I want hard proof that this name is damaging the academic side of the college. Absent that proof, I respectfully request that the faculty keep their noses out of MY business, shut up, and do their stinking jobs. This fight does not concern them, it never has, it never will.

I don't know what your 1st post consisted of, but you are spot on with your 2nd one! Excellent.

[Oxbow6]

Some very good postings today.

Instead of the legislature passing the bills that have been proposed, which would have some potentially very negative effects on the NCAA-UND relationship, I'd like the legislature to go down another path:

- Place the Sioux name as the perpetual nickname of UND on the ballot, so all ND voters have a say.

- Since Sioux County is essentially the Standing Rock reservation, the votes of Sioux County would be a de facto Standing Rock vote.

- If the vote in both Sioux County and North Dakota affirms the nickname, the AG would be required to petition the NCAA for the reinstatement of the Fighting Sioux name, as all requirements of the NCAA would then have been met. The NCAA would have to fold based on this type of democratic action.

If the legislature doesn't impose a statewide vote, the same measure could be put in place by gaining voters signature for an initiative.

If the principles of our representative democracy are properly used, the tyranny of PC politics can and will be defeated.

Another well stated post...you folks today on this thread are killing it!

[Siouxbooster#33]

Millstone indeed:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192842/

UND is reporting its largest-ever spring semester enrollment today, with 13,458 students.

That's a snapshop of the fourth week, which beat last spring's record enrollment of 12,733. UND's third highest spring enrollment number was 12,376 in 2005.

Last fall, UND had its largest enrollment of 14,194. Enrollment typically goes down in the spring semester. One reason: Some students graduate the winter.

That pesky nickname, and the ongoing debate and controversy, is obviously having a negative impact on enrollment . . . ?

[dakota fairways]

Instead of the legislature passing the bills that have been proposed, which would have some potentially very negative effects on the NCAA-UND relationship, I'd like the legislature to go down another path:

- Place the Sioux name as the perpetual nickname of UND on the ballot, so all ND voters have a say.

- Since Sioux County is essentially the Standing Rock reservation, the votes of Sioux County would be a de facto Standing Rock vote.

- If the vote in both Sioux County and North Dakota affirms the nickname, the AG would be required to petition the NCAA for the reinstatement of the Fighting Sioux name, as all requirements of the NCAA would then have been met. The NCAA would have to fold based on this type of democratic action.

If the legislature doesn't impose a statewide vote, the same measure could be put in place by gaining voters signature for an initiative.

If the principles of our representative democracy are properly used, the tyranny of PC politics can and will be defeated.

This is actually one of if not the best solutions that has come forward since this whole thing started. Well said, star!

[star2city]

This is actually one of if not the best solutions that has come forward since this whole thing started. Well said, star!

Thanks! Now, we just need to send some emails:

Legislators emails / addresses

To facilitate reconciliation, what should also be proposed is that UND have two nicknames - one Sioux and one something else.

Those that take offense by the Sioux nickname can wear the alternate jersey or T-shirt.

Auburn, while technically not having two nicknames, is prominently known for both "War Eagle" and "Tigers", and it hasn't hurt them.

[Fetch]

I like it .......a lot !

[Predator]

....

I have wondered, and I am still grappling with the question: Who is UND? Who are we? Who has the right to speak for UND?

.....

We are one. We are North Dakota.

[Big A HG]

The Robert O. Kelley academic, who is talking a great game about open and transparent process, but things just seem to 'happen' the way he wants them too. But no one really seems to know how. But the outcome seems pre-defined to Kelley's liking.

Is Kelley's middle name Obama? If you read the description you posted, you could think it was either.